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Ex cowboy scout says dolphins made mistake going with left tackle over qb.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I'm sorry, that's just hind sight as well.

    The fact is that if Aikman or Brees were the QB here right now and put up the same numbers they did at the start of their careers they would be seen as busts too.
     
  2. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's nice and all but it surely did not hurt that Ryan came into the league with a Rb named Turner, and Wr's Jenkins, and Roddy White. Then they go out and get the best TE in the game to shore things up the next year.

    Yes, Matt Ryan is a stud Qb. No doubt about it but he came in with such a strong supporting cast that made the transition from College to the Pros really smooth. Turner scored 17 Td's that first year.

    Our Miami Dolphins have had the worst luck with the TIMING of the draft the last 15 seasons. They searched and searched for a stud Rb for so long and never found one. So Wrongstadt trades away three arms, four legs and two webos to get one of the best Rb's in the league. Then he runs away to no mans land, and here they were with no first round picks for two seasons, and the next time they have a first rounder they find Ronnie Brown. It turns out he was not the best pick that year but he was a solid Rb that suffered too many injuries.

    Now with that said, they also struggled to find at least one bonefied number one Wr. I mean the best Wr this team has seen since McDuffie, and lets say, Gadsden was Chris Chambers, who was nothing more than a quality number 2 Wr.

    So coming into the draft, (2008) and with a new regime, once again, they start out doing what has been the blueprint for building teams for so many years. They start with the line, and pick Long. They really get lucky to land a quality verteran Qb otherwise the team is probably drafting top 5 the following year.

    So in hindsight, Ryan looks to be the better pick but at that time, they followed a solid blueprint for building a team. They landed a stud LT, who could go down as one of the better to play that position. So it was an excellent pick. No way, no how, can anyone say different.

    Bad timing, some bad luck, some bad coaches, and some terrible GM's have plagued this team for the last two decades. We can only hope it changes one day SOON but I'll take Long on my team any day of the week, and four hours on Sundays.
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    But bro how good would he be with this regime? There are few qb's who can overcome poor surroundings.
     
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  4. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I agree, that was a the biggest mistake we made, not Long over Ryan.
     
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  5. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    but this is my point really. using hindsight for all these what if's is ridiculous. Not sure why people can't just let it go. We got an elite LT. Now we need a QB. Look towards the future, not the past. optimism, people!
     
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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont think thats fair at all. Who would be our LT right now? Would we have taken Sam Baker instead of Merling? For all we know Ryan may have failed miserably here due to the lack of targets and protection.

    I agree with the consensus, if you want to look in hindsight the mess up wasnt taking Long over Ryan it was taking Brown over Rodgers.
     
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  7. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Really?

    I think Henne would be looking better if he had Gonzalez, White and Turner.

    But that's just me.

    Gonzalez was going to the Hall before his stop in Atlanta. White has been averaging 15 ypc since 2005 and Turner is looking at his 2nd All Pro season in 3 years. Saying Ryan makes them better is a bit of a stretch.

    I'm as disapointed as the next guy with the teams performance, but this thread specifically pointed to finding a QB (Aikman) who sucked worse than Henne at this point in their careers.

    That's all.
     
  8. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I was in the Dorsey camp. I thought then, and still do, that Matt Ryan is overrated. Is he better than what we have? Yes, but so is David Garrard, and Jacksonville isn’t exactly breaking records with him at QB.

    In my view, Matt Ryan is above average. He’s not Very Good, and he’s certainly not Great. He’s currently the sixth best quarterback in the playoffs.
     
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  9. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Not sure if it was a mistake or not, but I remember not being thrilled that the only overall #1 pick of my lifetime was an OT. Jake is great, although not as dominating as I had hoped but he is still young. The #1 should have been a difference maker IMO.
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If I remember right BPK was high on Ryan aswell.
     
  11. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

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    What's up with these people coming out now and saying this :facepalm:

    Why try to be an expert now when any plain person can just look at the results and say the samething

    We should of also drafted Aaron Rodgers, Frank Gore, Tom Brady, Jay Ratliff, Clay Matthews, Desean Jackson, Darrell Revis, Nick Mangold and so on......

    It's easy to play the results now and say this team should of drafted this player, the trick is to say that right before and after the draft not when the players finish to develop
     
  12. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    Why look back when we should be looking forward?

    Yes we could have got any of these guys over the years, but they might not have turned out as good here.

    We should be looking forward at what can be instead of what could have been.
     
  13. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    Good running backs make the worst teams better. Good offensive lines make the team better. Its all one giant system, I think qb is important, but there are other arguments for other positions. And seeing as how they are all pretty dependent on one another every argument is pretty much moot. And you didn't answer my question.
     
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  14. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    I agree that there are other positions that are important......A QB can't do it alone as we saw with Marino

    However..... I just think it's hard to argue against the QB being the most important position on the team.

    They didn't ignore the QB position when they drafted big Jake.....they bet that Henne would be good enough and they could have their star LT as well. So far that's not working out...

    You should always build your team around the QB...... not build a team that is good enough to make up for the fact that your QB is mediocre.

    The Wanny/Fiedler years taught us that....
     
  15. krypto

    krypto Banned

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    A great QB is infinitely more important than a great tackle especially if winning is part of the agenda. But to be clear, I'm not sayin Matt Ryan is a great QB just yet, thats reserved for Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.
     
  16. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Well you could say the same thing concerning Rodgers, in fact even more so as Ryan wasn't a project like Rodgers....Ryan played day one and Rodgers rode the pine for years behind Favre. Had Rodgers started day one it's likely he'd be just another David Carr

    Not to mention Rodgers was no where near being rated a top 5 guy like Ryan or Brown for that matter....
     
  17. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Not me. I lost my temper and got kicked off another site bashing the pick of long.I am trying so hard to keep it in check.
     
  18. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I think if saban drafted rodgers he would still be here and we would have a contender.This makes me sick more than ryan because I think rodgers will take over as the best qb in the league within the next few years.
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually under the scenario I laid out you have Rodgers AND Long.

    And regarding Ryan, he was coming off a senior year in which he threw 20 interceptions compared with only 22 TD's. He was labeled and probably rightfully so at that time as a player who tries to do too much. Has he fixed that? Most definitely, yes. But would he have been able to fix that with Brown/Williams/Bess/Cammy/Ginn those first two years instead of Turner? The answer is no. Turner has 1700 yards in 08. The team goes to the playoffs. Turner gets hurt in 09, misses half the year and the team goes 7-9. Ryan has become a good QB but people miss the boat on one key stat...When Turner gets 100 yards, they dont lose. Ever. Had Ryan or Rodgers started from day one here theyd both likely be the next David Carr.
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    The problem is when you are going to be that high up in the draft to get an elite qb you have to take him.We blew it two times in the last 5 years and look where we are now coming off of two straight 7-9 seasons.Jake long is great but the most important postion on the field is qb.Without one unless you have the ravens defence or the raiders playbook like gruden had you are not winning **** as the jets are going to find out on sunday.
     
  21. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Ryan was surrounded by no one at BC and that's why he had that label, he had no choice but to try and do too much...... but he was also highly regarded as a guy that was ready to start on day one..... Rodgers was a project and Saban was not going in that direction.

    And of course a running game helps....goes without saying. Doesn't take away from the fact that that team was built the proper way...... and that is around the QB position

    And you can't just say you'd have Rodgers and Long....... because who knows what draft slot we would have been in. Rodgers may or may not have altered that...

    As Ozzy said...... that was part of that bad timing/luck for us. We had the #2 pick in a draft that was light in the top ten....
     
  22. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Come on man.

    He sat behind a Hall of Famer for 3 full years learning the intricacies of his position and then went 6-10 in his 1st full year as a starter.
     
  23. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    my fist pump goes to Jake Long for playing through the injuries.... stayed on field. No one talks about that.
    Ryan would have been the better choice but we were building inside out.
     
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  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That Ryan was surrounded by no one is a myth. Skill positions were questionable but both James Marten and Gosder Cherilus were first day picks in rounds three and one. Gunnell at WR did make a practice squad as well.

    That Saban wasnt going in that direction was an oversight on his own behalf. Its been discussed in Club the importance of the QB position but the only things as important as the QB are the player protecting the QB's blindside and the guy attacking the QB. He felt he could win with Gus Frerotte and thats all we need to know about how he felt about the QB position. Clearly, he understated the importance. Instead he decided to go with...wait for it...sure thing....Jason Allen. Ugh.
     
  25. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Matt Ryan is OVERRATED!

    He has White and Gonzalez to throw to, Turner running the ball to set up the pass, yet Ryan averaged only 6.49 yards per attempt. Check-down Chad had 6.74 ypa with not nearly the offensive talent around him. The NFC South got to play against the NFC West. Every time a division gets to play against the NFC West the division and players looks a lot better than they are.
     
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  26. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    If sitting behind Favre for three years taught Rodgers anything, it was that throwing interceptions in playoff games kills seasons.
     
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  27. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Disagree with that myth thing...... he had no one that could get separation and was constantly forced to throw into tight windows.... he had very little to nothing as far as play makers.

    And yeah.....Saban was an idiot. He lost me off the bandwagon the minute he signed Culpepper. I was literally chased off another forum for suggesting he was clueless in regards to the QB position. Well that and my cheery disposition;]
     
  28. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Come on Allen...I can say with certainty that Jake Long will be (I am sure of it) in the Hall of Fame and Ryan...won't...

    BUT..The QUARTERBACK would have lead to more wins......
     
  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Pretty clear, yet many will refute it.
     
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  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Bill Walsh agrees. But what does he know.
     
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  31. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He was the highest ratted QB on most draft boards along with Alex Smith
     
  32. Hellion

    Hellion Crash Club Member

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    Really? Where was Steve Deberg drafted by the 49ers previous regime? Then where was Montana drafted? It was the same situation as NE had with Bledsoe and Brady. Montana coming out of ND was not highly touted as the next greatest ever or even a good QB. He liked what he saw out of him and got lucky and he admitted it. How many good to great QBs did Walsh draft?

    But heres a what if with the Long/Ryan what IF debate....

    IF we drafted Ryan do we still go after Pennington in FA? Yes we needed a vet QB.
    IF Pennington is the starting QB with no stability at LT does he stay healthy and we still go 11-5?
    IF Ryan doesn't have his rookie year to play where in his development is he without the weapons he has in ATL?
    IF we don't have solid play at LT does Ryan stay healthy himself.
    IF we drafted Ryan would the fans at this point be calling him a bust because he isn't where THEY feel he should be? (most certainly)
    IF Ebenezer Scrooge isn't a dick does he live a better life? (maybe Dolphin fans need three ghosts?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  33. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    Why do people want to even eat these cyanide pill threads every time they're posted? Start a thread when you fix the flux capacitor and can go back and do something about it, until then leave it in the rearview mirror.
     
  34. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Of course it was a mistake. I can't belive this is even an argument. I can only feel sorry for the people trying to convince themselves that it was somehow the right move. It wasn't. Matt Ryan is better than Chad Henne will ever be. But I know, he only looks that way because he was drafted into the greatest team in history and they already had a left tackle etc. etc.... But hey at least now we can be 7-9 with a hall of fame LT!!! Also my simple mind just can't comprehend how not taking a tackle at number one overall instantly equals 'no stability at LT'. Perhaps we could have drafted a tackle with one of our two second rounders that year. That number 33 pick we wasted on Merling I'm sure could have landed us somebody, maybe we could have even traded up a little if necessary.

    Some of Matt Ryan's key weapons [apparently the only reasons for his success] were acquired through FA. I'm talking specifically about Turner and Gonzales. So logically Miami could have went after both of them. They were not players Atlanta drafted or that were only available to the Falcons. Atlanta acquired these guys specifically to help bring their QB along. Let's stop acting like the Dolphins are just victims of circumstance or something. You make your own luck. The Dolphins FO could have done things the right way but decided to go against conventional wisdom and not make QB the top priority. They are now paying the price and so are we. Let's just all hope a good QB finds his way to Miami this offseason.
     
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  35. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I remember when Ryan was coming out of BC, i don't think anyone thought he would be this successful. If anyone did, they were probably pulling it out of their ***. Matt Ryan at the time just wasn't overwhelmingly good and he still isn't. He can make the throws when White or Gonzalez get open and Michael Turner helps. Year 2 he was very ineffective as well. I still think Long was the right pick.
     
  36. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Please,brett farve was asked if he was going to mentor rodgers and his responce was nobody mentored me why should i help him.Brett helps nobody but brett.
    Our qb had a great mentor in chad pennington.
     
  37. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Mind boggling. He sees open receivers so he's automatically better than who we have.
     
  38. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Nobody knew if the 49ers were going to take rodgers or smith.
     
  39. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I am pretty sure you can't tell the difference between a QB who throws players open and a QB who throws to open players.
     
  40. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    Check out CK Parrots twit about the records of the teams with the top QB's vs. the rest of the league. I would be interested if they complied the same stats with the top left tackles, but I don't think they will do as well as the top QB's. Yup QB is important.
     

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