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Dolphins Have To Believe In Henne

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Georgia Fin, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Of course it's easier. Finding a franchise QB is like finding the holy grail. Before the season started I thought Henne was the guy but now I'm not convinced. I don't see any progress between the 2009 and 2010 season.

    2009 - 75.2 QB Rating, 60.8 Comp Pct, 12 TD and 14 INT
    2010 - 75.4 QB Rating, 61.4 Comp Pct, 15 TD and 19 INT

    That's not what you're looking for out of your starting quarterback's second year. Same offense. Same OC. An upgrade at WR. And Henne didn't get any better. Maybe it was the offensive line. Maybe it was a tougher schedule. Who knows?

    We can blame Henning. That's fine. I'm sure he was at fault too. But I'm looking at Henne and wondering why he didn't make a bigger leap this year.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Only if they believe one of those Qb is the "right" guy for them, this idea that "no #1 pick on a Qb" has been the problem is utter pap, there has been a slew of Qb's taken with #1 picks in the last 12 yrs that have been terrible, it is not a panacea.

    That is a part of the reason why I prefer a Qb with some mobility as the pocket passer types, ie Henne, can only throw the ball to pick up yards or first downs, a young Qb with some wheels is a problem for defenses, which is why I am in favor of keeping Thiggy.

    If they want checkdown/touchdown, Thiggy can do that as well as run with the ball and his investment cost is modest at best.
     
  3. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    I'm with you on this one. Thats what I was saying. Tuna eventually recognize Henne's deficiencies and saw the error of his choice and gutlessly ran away hoping no one would notice his fat hand in several bad decisions....

    It's true surrounding Henne with instability and less talent makes the learning curve much more difficult. But Henne would not be successful with any offense IMO. He just doesn't have it and we don't have the time to hope it someday developed. Damn AJ Feely was better than Chad. I just hope the organization is not resting their hopes on the injury prone Pennington, which wouldn't surprise me.
     
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  4. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    Winning cures all.

    If the Dolphins went 11-5 and made the AFC Championship two years in a row, Henne's numbers would fly with the fans. Especially, if he had very notable performances in the playoffs.

    If the Jets went 7-9 and missed the playoffs the past two years, Sanchez would be getting the same flak for his performance.

    I'm OK with the organization giving Henne another year starting. There's going to be a lot of new pieces to our offense and I don't necessarily think QB has to be one of them.
     
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  5. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Absolutely. I list those four quarterbacks because I believe all four have potential. Gabbert would be my first choice. Followed by Mallet and Newton. Both them have talent as well as question marks. Locker needs to prove himself. His stock may plummet and he might be drafted in the 2nd round. Or he may leap frog one of those guys. We will see.

    There are a bunch of guys I would like to draft in the 1st round:

    C Stefen Wisniewski
    WR Torrey Smith
    RB Mark Ingram
    RB Mikel LeShoure
    OT Derek Sherrod
    OT Tyron Smith
    OT Anthony Castonzo
    OT Gabe Carimi
    OLB Aldon Smith
    OLB Akeem Ayers
    DE Cameron Heyward

    But a franchise QB supercedes everything.

    And I'm totally down with keeping Thigpen. He is a good backup and has potential.
     
  6. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    I personally have no issue w/ the Dolphins drafting a QB #1 (insert name here: Devlin, Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Mallet, etc.), and then having Henne begin the season as starter and see where it goes. As long as it's done after a true competition in training camp/preseason, and Henne emerges as the best option at the start of the season.

    In a sense, we would then "win" either way. If Henne has the fire lit under his arse, and suddenly puts it together, good for us! It gives us a quality QB in '11, and a chip to trade in a year or two (either Henne, or that #1 pick). If Henne falters, and continues along the path he was headed at the end of last season, then we start that #1 pick and see where it goes.

    For a third QB, either bring back Penny, Thigpen, or draft another QB in the mid rounds, w/ some possible upside should Henne AND the #1 pick fail (Greg McElroy type?).

    This is the only way I see Henne starting. If we go out and get Orton, Kolb, or sign a Matt Hasselback through some turn of events, they would have to start, clearly IMHO. But if we truly study the first-round QBs, find one we like, build a conviction on the guy, and strike on draft day, why not start off w/ Henne to see where it goes??

    Yes, Flacco and Ryan succeeded out of the gate, but that doesn't mean our guy will.
     
    Big Red likes this.
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well they better hurry up because I'm ascared the last coaches may have ruined him. He needs to be denuralized to forget what David Lee and Dan Henning did to his brain.



    Or was it him?
     
  8. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I believe most of the the clowns are gone. The jury is still out on the owner though.

    Parcells sneaks out the back door, leaving nothing more than a forwarding address for his checks. At least Henning and Lee, who showed absolutely nothing other than the Wildcat in 3 years, had the decency to retire or move on without sucking anymore resources out of the organization.

    Everyone can mock Sparano all they want but he was the only one that stood up day after day and took heat for this mess when we all know now that he had no say whatsoever in the players he was charged to coach. I've also noticed the only players that have hinted at him being any issue are ones with their best years well behind them.

    After the Harbaugh fiasco, Sparano is now playing with house money. Maybe he goes 0-4, gets fired and walks away with around $10M or maybe he had an offensive scheme in mind before he started his OC search, realized a total scheme change was too dangerous with possible lockouts and thought someone with direct knowledge of Weis’s horizontal and vertical pattern techniques was the best way to get there.

    He has nothing to lose and I expect him to pull out all the stops. I also expect at least 2 new faces at the QB position. Let’s face it Henne was bad.
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    thinking about this article I think the writer got it wrong. Its Henne that needs to believe in Henne. It was somewhat obvious that he was still overwhelmed by what defenses were throwing at him and I think it rattled him as the season progressed. I think what he needs to do is spend the entire off season immersed in film study. he needs to come out next year knowing exactly what the defenses are doing presnap. i dont think he worked as hard as he could have last season

    secondly i think he has to figure out what throws he can make and start attacking DBs in a more intelligent manner. DB playing inside technique, throw it to the outside shoulder even if the receiver is covered. start learning how to throw fades. start learning how to throw jump balls to marshall. learn to attack and trust your arm a bit more
     
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  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There were several factors. The first being that defenses adjusted to Henne based on the film they had on him form 2009. In 2009, defenses loaded up to stop the run, gave us man-blitz looks and dared Henne to beat them. Henne does pretty well vs man, most people, coaches especially, realized that and adjusted. The 2nd year is when defenses have the biggest advantage over QBs, they all have different ideas to attack the QB, mos of which the QB has never seen, and you get a lot of sophomore slumps that way.

    2nd, the collapse of the running game. I dont think anyone saw it coming, and all year long we had no answers. The WC was shut down, the power play was ineffective, the OL was inconsistent, the backs were slow and plodding. teams were able to play two deep without any fear that we would bludgeon them on the ground.

    3rd, not being able to run hurt the play action game, which IMO, was the worst arm of the offense. The fakes were have hearted, there were only token attempts at deception, and often none at all. The OL went to pass pro, the RBs went looking for blitzers, Henne was more interested in getting his head around than in putting the ball into the belly of his backs, who rarely attacked the LOS or even made it to the exchange point. Our PA game was more of a joke than a weapon.

    4th, no playmakers, no speed. Quick, how many times did a RB, TE, WR take what should have been a short gain and turn it into a long gain? Marlon Moore had the season long 57 yder on a short curl, but that was more bad defense than good offense. Ricky busted a long run in that same Raiders game but it was vs a stacked front, he wasnt even touched nor did he have to elude anyone, and the umpire threw a block that would make Davone Bess blush. Bottom line, we had no one to make a routine play into a triple or home run. Our scoring drives had to be 11 plays 70 yds or else we werent scoring a TD. Teams played soft until we crossed mid field and then tightened up, just as Henning tightened up his play calls and Henne became more worried about INTs than greedy about TDs.

    Across the board, our offense was a failure. Talent was lacking, execution and coaching as well. Our run game dropped from 4th to 21st. We were dead last in rushing TDs until the last two weeks of the season. Our defense didnt force man TOs, our ST rarely gave us good field position. We had practice squad guys like Moore, Wallace, Shuler, Epps, Mastrud etc instead of actual NFL ready players. Our chance of pace guy, Cobbs, was an abomination. Marshall was as advertised, but with no one else to create space for him, he was more of a nuisance than a real threat. There are so many issues with our offense that trying to blame one guy or group is silly, the problems were systemic, not confined to anyone in particular. Its no surprise at all that Henne's game didnt take any significant leap. Actually, the the fact that he even came close to last years production level is a positive IMO b/c on the surface I would've expected him to take a nose dive.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    GM, I disagree moving forward that we should stick with Henne, but that is damn good analysis brother, and in most cases I would agree...Usually if a QB can sustain their play from the rookie year its widely considered amongst coaches thats a win situation...

    I hope iam wrong about the dude, but I just cant trust his feet anymore...amongst other things athletically related.
     
  12. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Thx man. I with you on Henne, I don't see him becoming a top tier QB at this level. He lacks the ability to extend plays and create positive gains out of bad plays/good coverage, which is a must if you're going to be a top level guy. My preference for keeping him has more to do with the lack of alternatives, and if an upgrade were to become available for a reasonable price, I'd be all for it.

    In the mean time, I think we should focus on upgrading and fixing the other problems on offense. If we can develop a consistent running game and a play action game to go with it. If we can find a WR who can stretch the field, a TE who can attack the seam, and a RB who can threaten the flats/underneath coverage and bust a big run every now and then, I think we'll be able to produce with Henne as the QB. Conversely, if we don't find any of those things, I don't think we'll have much success with Henne, Orton, Palmer, Young or any rookie coming out this year. In a nutshell, we need better production from the offense and there are several ways to get there. I'm in favor of taking the path of least resistance, whatever that may be.
     
  13. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    get over it. henne is a bust. trade the bum for what you can get for him
    unfortunately, we were not successful in hiring a new head coach
    hope a new QB under center can help medicate the Sparano Incompetence
    apparently, he's already hired a loser @ OC. what next? can't wait to see
     
  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I wish we could trade some of the posters on this forum. A bottle of water and pack of Bazooka Joe is all I'd ask in return.
     
  15. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    that's all you got? a cheap attack on a fellow poster?
    typical, but very disappointing
    how about disputing the facts of the post?
    1) Henne is a bust.
    2) we couldn't find a replacement for Sparano & that's why he's here still screwing things up
    3) if we could get a franchise QB, it could help balance the burden of the Sparano incompetence
    4) Henning was a better OC than the bum Sparano brought in to replace him. do the numbers.
    nothing good comes from a cyber bully. think about it

    :cupid: the problem is GM, you have a man-crush :kiss:
     
  16. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    if 23 hates this move then so do i
    henne must go
    and the oc too
     
  17. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend GMJohnson:
    please respond to the post, I'm very interested in hearing your opinions on content of the post. you must have many interesting things to say. please share your wisdom with the forum, enlighten us. if you don't respond I will be very disappointed.
    may I suggest that you stick to the post this time. be nice. post often; post well.
     
  18. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    That is the question. We will see I guess.
     
  19. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    There are other statistics to look at for progress. Yards per game up, 20+ plays, YAC all of these were up compared to 2009. This team could make plays and move the ball but the offense simply died in the red zone. The biggest reason was the drop off in the running game from 2009. The passing game generally speaking improved, the running game took a huge step backwards.
     
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  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Why? Do you have something against................. beer? :tongue2:
     
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  21. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend Toddsphins:
    if you run with dogs you catch fleas
     
  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    My dogs live indoors, but thanks for the advise anyways.
     
  24. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Thank you for the links. That is some good stuffin' there.

    One thing that stood out:
    No Offensive Motion 4TD's 11 Int's
    W/ Offensive Motion 11TD's 7 Int's

    One of the purposes of offensive motion is to help the QB figure out of the defense is in man or zone coverage. It's also used to try and confuse the defense in terms of their assignments. It might suggest that Henne was having problems reading defenses. Just a thought.

    There are all types of goodies in there :yes:
     
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  25. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Yards per game in 2009: 205.6
    Yards per game in 2010: 220.1

    20+ plays in 2009: 23
    20+ plays in 2010: 37

    I believe QB rating, completion percentage, and the number of touchdowns against the number of interceptions is more important but that is encouraging.

    Didn't see his YAC stats anywhere. Wouldn't that be more attributable to the wideouts? For example Brandon Marshall is known for his YAC. And I remember reading that in training camp he was working the other wideouts in regards to YAC. Bess in particular seemed to have much better YAC this year.
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Your welcome buddy. There are definitely some situations where Henne appears to excel........ and of course some others where he seems to flounder. lol
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If it was Dan Marino making these comments, I might accept them. But Dan Le Batard never played one down in the NFL or even in college for that matter. He is nothing but a sports writer. He is entitled to his opinion on Henne just as much as anybody else. I just don't take much stock in his views as to the quarterback situation with the Dolphins. He is paid to write articles for his paper, not to make decisions related to who should be the starting QB for the Miami Dolphins or how this QB should be utilized. Le Batard will still have his job after next year no matter how Henne plays at QB. The same can not be said for Sparano, Ireland and the rest of the coaching staff. So I'll just disregard the views of Le Batard on this issue and leave it up to Sparano and Ireland to make a decision concerning the future of Henne with the Dolphins.
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Well, since we're going to a potential spread offense and opening things up, there's one thing playing in Henne's favor:

    4+ WR sets: 83.1 QB Rating, 5 TDs, 3 INTs. 1 TD per 19.8 attempts. (not bad when factoring in Moore, Wallace, and Mr. Testicle)

    Aaron Rodgers throws a TD once every 17 attempts.
     
  29. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    It's almost like it went over your head or something.
     
  30. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Henne was atrocious in the 2 WR set. Everything else was mostly fine ( 3 or 4 WR sets ). But the stat where he threw 9 INT's when he was at his own 20 - 30 yard line is the killer. Not only is he turning it over he is turning it over ( more than likely ) deep in our own territory. Which by default is costing us points. But to be fair there isn't a "good" time to turn it over :P
     
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  31. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    I think Henne was tired of playcalls that were designed to settle for a field goal so he just tries to force things and bad stuff happened.
     
  32. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    Agh... I'm ready for another mediocre Dolphins season. Henne is going to the List of "Dolphins' Starting QBs After Marino But Failed."

    Please, pick a 1st Round QB and forget that Henne was on the roster.
     
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  33. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    How many INT's do you think he has to throw before he figures out 'forcing' it is a bad idea? Considering he threw 9 in that area of the field the feedback should be fairly evident.

    Again though, no one has seemed to address this, if we were calling 'safe' plays so to speak then why did Henne finished tied 4th in the league in INT's. Should he not have finished almost last in the league. "Safe" plays should mean it's harder to throw INT's.

    Most fans complaints were we were calling it safe to kick FG, but Henne wasn't throwing picks in the red zone, he was throwing them on our side of the field. So which is it?

    I feel like people are bending over backwards to protect Henne. There seems to be no argument that is 'too far' so to speak for them to hold up in his defense. It's interesting.

    I do think this coaching staff is accountable in his bad play as well. So I am not white washing them of this painful season.
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's pretty tough to excel as a QB with 2 WR sets. Doesn't exactly give you a whole lot of options when it comes to throwing the ball. Sure you may have a RB as a checkdown, or a TE, which is why we see so many checkdown passes, but what else are you supposed to do when your 2 options at WR are covered.

    I think putting more options on the field if we are intending on going to a more spread oriented offense, will be a good thing for Henne.
     

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