Alright Lets Say That We Trade Our 15th Pick Down To Lets Say The Bears At 29 And We Do Regain A 2nd Round Pick But Its the 29th Pick In the 2nd Round. And Our Only Chance To Pick Up A Quarterback Like Ponder(Who Had A Great Outing In the Senior Bowl) Or Dalton is With the 29th Pick In the 1st Round. Would You Guys Pick One Of Those QBs W/ the Late First Round Pick? Or Skip Over the QB W/ The 1st Round Pick And Play Wait And See W/ the Late 2nd Rounder? If I Were To Choose Id Pick The QB In the Late 1st Round, and Then Start Drafting As Planned W/ The G,C,WR Etc What Would You Do?
Considering Mankins is a real possibility in FA...... and there a bunch of FA TEs to choose from (Mercedes Lewis, Owen Daniels, or Zach Miller). If the draft is before FA, the following would be a homerun draft and would completely compliment what we're trying to do on offense: 1. RB- Ryan Williams 2. WR- Jerrel Jernigan (or Titus Young) 3. RB- Jacquizz Rodgers 4. WR- Greg Little (nearly a Brandon Marshall clone in all aspects) 5. OLB- Chris Carter 6. QB- Tyrod Taylor 7. Hback- Charles Clay (extremely versative player with a lot of upside) FA: Mankins, Mercedes, Ronnie Brown, Soliai, Tony McD, back-up vet QB....... and Nnamdi (j/k). Major needs satisfied: LG- Mankins WR speed and playmaking ability- Jernigan & Little TE playmaking ability- Mercedes #1 RB- Ryan Williams COP back- Quizz QB- Matt Hasselbeck KR/PR- Jernigan Pass rush specialist- Chris Carter Offensive X factor/WR/WC QB- Tyrod Taylor Offense is now balanced and unpredictable with great talent, more speed, redzone threats, & playmaking ability at every position (with a good combination of youth and veterans). Henne should have decent year with this line up, and there's a problem if we can't put up more points. We really need that 2nd round pick to make it all work b/c Jernigan & Titus Young in the late 2nd are basically the draft's only speed options at WR.
I would probably take the BPA if we pick 29th....probably a guy like Colorado CB Jimmy Smith. At the end of the 2nd round I would probably take a WR like Jerrel Jernigan of Troy who is a very fast and a great return man besides being a fast receiver. We also have to start looking at QB's and RB's....I think it will be Dalton or Kaepernick at QB in Round 3.
So we leave Berger at C and Jerry at RG and Carey at RT ? You thereby are saying Mankins alone, is going to cure our Oline woes and Incognito was solely responsible for what went on in the Oline ? C'MON MAN. Mankins at LG and leaving everythng else the same is not going to change all that much. Lots of changes need to be made besides Mankins and in case you have not been reading around , 31 other NFL teams fans want Logan Mankins also. This kid is going to be VERY overpaid if he goes to another team. I still say NE franchise tags him then deals him for draft pick.
Me Cmon? You cmon man. There are NO options at Center this year that suit our needs outside of Incognito at Center, who wasn't all that bad actually and held his own against big NTs. We just spent a 3rd on Jerry who was only a rookie, so if you'd like to act foolishly and spend a high pick on replacing someone with a good deal of upside, then be my guest. Carey is fine when healthy, and we'll have Garner back. Jerry can also kick outside to his natural RT position and Carey can move inside. Do you always act so hastily and stress out prematurely? We dont need elite guys at all 5 spots. Long-Mankins-Incognito-Jerry-Carey is a solid line that will get a good push in the ground game and provide better protection than we saw earlier in the season when the protection was actually decent before the injuries kicked in.
And by the way..... if the draft is held before FA, then some of those teams in need of a LG will have already drafted them before FA arrives..... hence making it possible to not have such a bidding war for Mankins as you'd see if FA were held first. There are other decent LGs in FA that can be had w/o having to use a valuable high pick on one....... and if YOU haven't noticed, we have other more pressing needs than LG...... but if you'd like to prioritize LG over a franchise RB in round 1 or a speedy, playmaking WR in round 2 or 3, then please feel free to continue our trend of mediocrity and lack of offensive production. There are only so many ways the draft can go based on the talent available and the picks we have. The NFL wont move everything around to fit your needs, you know.
Good post. Wanted to ask what philosophy would you like to see the team adopt? Defensive, offensive, running team, passing team, etc?
You forgot to include signing Incognito in your original post maybe that's where the confusion is stemming from? One thing that scares me with your mock draft, is that Titus Young may have played his way into the late 1st/ early 2nd with the week he had at the Senior Bowl. Now I would be fine with taking him at 29 especially with the lack of speed available this year. If we did this maybe we go after a late round running back, such as, Delone Carter from Syracuse. How would you feel about a change like this? Outside of that I would be floored if we ended up with an offseason like this.
I say we stand pat and go for Newton at 15. No more settling for less at the most important position on the field. If our front office and coaching staff don't believe Newton can be "the guy" at 15 then sure, trade back and stock picks, but I don't want a high round (1-3) selection being wasted on a fringe-prospect QB; I'd rather have Henne for another year in that scenario. On a side note, according to the draft value chart, Seattle would be a better (the best without the other team overpaying) trading partner (25 & 57).
Thanks. I think we're suited for an agressive, attacking defensive team (first and foremost) with a well balanced, but playmaking offense..... one that can still be a high percentage offense but with more playmakers to turn these lower risk plays into more chunk yards and TDs. IMO we can get more out of Henne if we ask less of him and ask more out of the rest of the offense. We're paying our QB peanuts, so there's no reason we can't afford to surround him with playmakers to where our offense can be productive as a TEAM. Look what 77 career QB rating, Kitna, did in Dallas with that cast (29 pts/game the last 10 games). I think we're close when combining the current D we have with a few key components on offense (Long, Marshall, Bess... and I believe Henne could effectively run a well balanced offense). Our defense under Nolan is one that IMO would work optimally (and be pretty scary) if it were paired with an offense that could put up some quick points, with the goal being--- to force opposing offenses into more predictable situations. In other words, the D needs early help from the offense if it wants to truly be able to attack and force more turnovers. Then we take advantage of such turnovers with our offensive playmakers (that dont exist yet. lol). Then let the D attack some more.... to the point where we can eat up the clock on ground in the 4th QTR..... and then BAM---- playaction deep post for a TD. That kind of stuff. Basically, I'd like to put the game away in the 1st QTR and then never take our foot off our opponents throats. IMO we have one of (if not) the best 3rd down conversion trio in the NFL in Bess, Marshall, and Henne. That's huge as far as I'm concerned, and is a foundation to build an offense around as odd as it sounds. That would be my starting point---- "how to get us in easy 3rd down situations" so these guys can move the chains. TBH, this is the strength of our offense if you think about it. In my book, I always go with building strengths first..... which in the above case would be to first grab a stud LG along with a RB who can pick up consistent 4 yards on 1st down with the ability to also break one off. Then I'd look for the guy who adds to our 3rd down conversion "strength" so that teams couldn't game plan to take them away (and also to ensure that we'd still have a "strength" if a player went down b/c I hate seeing a strength turn into a weakness). That guy is hands down WR, Jerrel Jernigan. He's in the quick, elusive Davone Bess mold, only with major speed. The 3 of them would be impossible to cover across 7 yards of field in single coverage. IMPOSSIBLE. Jernigan would be in the slot on 1st and 2nd down..... and Bess would come in on 3rd down, 4 WR sets, or to rotate in for a breather. Doing the above will have us moving the chains all game....... but it's still lacking in scoring & big play ability, and we're still somewhat inside a 20 yard box, but not as bad as we were this season. To address that, we need a seambusting TE and an upgraded #2 WR to help balance it out and give our elusive playmakers (Marshall & Jernigan) more room to actually tack on yards and break plays. Personally, I'd make Greg Little a priority b/c he's virtually a clone of Marshall as far as size, speed, physicality, and playing in space goes (but possibly better downfield)...... so that way if Brandon is injured or comes out, Little can come in and maintain good continuity with the offense and Henne. Plus he could be groomed to replace Brandon so that we could recoup a quality draft pick in a couple years and free up cap room. Little, Marshall, and Jernigan would be dangerous in the redzone. I'd trade Hartline for a 3rd to use on Little if I had to. Little might need time to groom with his year off, so I'd maybe add a vertical WR in FA, making the offense a serious threat at every level (short, intermediate, and deep) so that defenses cant afford to focus on any one area of the field. I want as many LBs and Safeties pulled away from Marshall & Jernigan as possible.... or vice versa--- a vertical threat who can burn coverage that's too focused on Marshall & Jernigan. He can either outrun coverage like Santonio Holmes or be a physical beast like Braylon Edwards. If Little can step in and immediately be that Edwards type, then I'd skip this part..... or at least wait a year to assess it further. Not decided yet here. The final piece would be a playmaking COP back who's dangerous in space...... one who would make us all stop what we're doing whenever he catches a dump off. (Leon Washington, Quizz, Jordan Todman..... but I like Quizz) Actually, the final piece of the offensive puzzle would be to add an Xfactor whom defenses have to game plan for. For me, it's Tyrod Taylor at a cheaper price than Brad Smith. IMO Marshall-Jernigan-Little in 3 WR sets with Mercedes at TE and Williams or Quizz at RB would be very tough to stop.... with a "speed WR" & Bess rotating in, providing tremendous depth and versatility...... along with some Tyrod creativity sprinkled in. How about 2 TE sets with Mercedes & Fasano (and Marshall & Little outside)? Added: with this entire cast, we'd have an easier ability to come from behind if we're down by multiple scores.... and we could attack every inch of the field w/o really increasing the risk. If Kitna can put up 30/game with Miles Austin, Dez, Witten, Roy Williams, Felix, and Barber, then I don't see why Henne couldn't have similar production from Marshall, Jernigan, Little, Mercedes Lewis, Ryan or DeAngelo Williams, Quizz Rodgers, and Tyrod Taylor. If we're going to be an attacking D, then we'll need another stud pass rusher whom we can turn loose when offenses are in more obvious passing situations. Depending on how our Secondary pans out, we might need a ball hawk FS to take advantage of QBs throwing under this extra pressure. I'd like to see one more big Soliai type body on the Dline rotation...... and possibly another playmaking LB who will be needed in these extra pass coverage duties (if Edds doesn't pan out). But this is all completely balls out. lol. What philosophy would you like to see?
Why does everyone assume ANY FA would sign with this franchise? Mainly Mankins? Isn't he with a good coach and team now? Why would he play for a lame duck coach or a franchise that looks like we will be the worst team in the NFL next year?
Not good... not good at all. You mentioned something about Jerry and upside. I don't know what upside you are talking about since he was just flat out horrible. And so what if the Fins spend a 3rd round pick on him? The guy can either play or he can't. I am not saying he needs to be cut BUT to go into the season without someone to challenge him for that job would be nuts. Carey? Well I wonder if we have seen the last of Carey. They guy is always out of shape and frankly one of the most over rated players on our roster. Kick him inside? How do we know he can make the adjustment? and I would just love to see Carey try to pull... once... IMO the Fins need a RT and two guards... where they get them I don't care but they need those players or we are going to keep seeing more of the same from the offense going forward.
possible Miami draft picks for 2011 1st pick Jake Locker, QB, Washington Height: 6-2. Weight: 228. Projected 40 Time: 4.59. or if we deal for a veteran QB Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama - Height: 5-10. Weight: 215. Projected 40 Time: 4.44. if we forego the QB with our first pick: 1) Matt Leinart – (Unrestricted) After this 2006 first-round pick lost the locker room in Arizona, where he started 17 games in four seasons as Kurt Warner’s backup, he spent the year sitting on Houston’s bench. Matt has a 70.8 career QB rating, is looking for a fresh start. 2) Carson Palmer – There are rumblings he might be available for the right price because of his bloated salary ($11.5 million in 2011) and limited success in the wins column last season. Palmer, who has a 86.9 career passer rating, completed more than 60 percent of his passes for the sixth time in his eight year career. 3) Kyle Orton- All of Denver has fallen in love with Tim Tebow, which means Orton’s on the trading block, and can be had for (future) second-round pick? I would then proceed to pick the best Center, then Guard available in the draft
I do not know where we get him from F/A or the draft but this teams number one need is a QB that has the ability to be a legitimate QB in the NFL. Henne may prove those of us that want change wrong and he turns into the next Rodgers. But what if he doesn't ? What do we do then, just watch the 2011 season be another failure ? I do not think even Tony and Ireland are that dumb because if that scenario happened both would be sent packing before 2/3 of the season was over. While Ross is new to the game I am confident he is not going to take anymore mediocre BS from Ireland, Tony or anyone else on the staff. IMO, its win big next season or punch your bus ticket out of town. To do that, we are going to need a good QB. Relying solely on Chad Henne to finally blossom into the QB some imagined he was is career suicide. Having Henne as the starting QB in 2011 is a huge role of the dice. If it goes wrong we will see coaches and Ireland fired and Ross will endure more empty seats then he saw this year. As it is, more then a lot of people are not securing season tickets until there is a CBA agreement. To go into another season and fail again would be worse then horrible. IMO, First, we need to sign our oun FA we want to keep. Looking around the league, no team has signed any of their own FA yet, not good. It appears everyone is just sitting on the fence and waiting. Cannot blame the players for not signing new contracts because you do not know if that money is going to be for 16 games or 18 games. If there is 18 games in the future I would want even more money and it appears the teams are not offering nada. I cannot fathom having the NFL draft prior to knowing what, if any, of your own FA are going to be here. One mans trash, so to speak, is another mans treasure. I am sure by now, after the Senior bowl, each agent and his clients know exactly what teams are interested in not only our FA but all FA around the league. Its a money driven league and if players can get more money playing somewhere else, then they will go and no one can blame them if they did. Ross wants a good team, then he is going to have to out pay other teams interested in probably, some of our own FA.
the very least that would be acceptable in my book is to pick up Matt Leinart & let him compete for the start. would not break the bank & might be just the break both Leinart & Miami are looking for in 2011. it would allow us to go after Mark Ingram in the draft & we would maintain our picks to fix the offensive line Matt Leinart – (Unrestricted) After this 2006 first-round pick lost the locker room in Arizona, where he started 17 games in four seasons as Kurt Warner’s backup, he spent the year sitting on Houston’s bench. Matt has a 70.8 career QB rating, is looking for a fresh start & has both experience & potential @ QB. he may just be @ the right point in his apprenticeship/career to step up. truth is, he's never had a clear & level field to compete on for the position. you want Henne to compete? let the competition begin. if all fails, we go for broke in next years draft for a QB, having established the basic offense. makes sense to me
I'd say it is more likely to be a trade with either New England or San Diego. Chicago would work if say a WR they wanted was there, which is the same reason I consider both of those other teams too. Only interested in making the offense go...I'd like to see 15th for 28th and 33rd with NE. Get something like Mike Pouncy and Torrey Smith. 79th, OG Benjamin Ijalana. 110th, RB Shane Vereen.
Honestly if we were to take a chance on someone like this, I'd rather it be Alex smith. I think that his constant changing of coordinators really handicapped him thus far and he's shown more to me than leinart.
Lenart never bothered me at all. Not his fault Kurt Warner had a resurrection to top any resurrection of a career then most of us will ever see. I am not so sure he loast the locker room as much as Wisenhunt just plain did not like the kid, he did not draft the kid. There is something to that in the NFL as far as coaches, right or wrong, liking their own guys. IF Leinhart can do it then since he is a lefty, Carey better step up his game BIG TIME. I would not be surpised of Carroll went after him.
I would be very happy with Kaepernick in the 2nd round or later as the developmental QB. I don't see why people keep saying Locker as he is too inaccurate to ever be successful.
I'd like to trade our first round pick (15) this season for a second round pick this season and a 1st rounder next season.This would give us 2 first rounders next season which would put us in great position to get a franchise QB next season
cam newton is a joke. he cant read the defense. most teams wont touch him cause his father is way to involved. if the phins take a qb in the first round i would take locker or mallett
cam newton is all about cam newton. the dolphins dont need a t.o. wanna be splittin up the locker room.
I am no Cam Newton supporter but I am going to go out on a limb here and say... you don't know Cam Newton or what he is about... just saying...
Are you trading any of the current Wr's or keeping 6/7/8 of them? Also don't discount Hasselback beating out Henne. It could happen Nice work too btw, but I think it's going to be too hard to not take an ILB somewhere
if there is no clear cut answer to QB in 2011, why waste a draft & free agency? better to fix what can be fixed, then go with a QB that has potential but will not break the bank Matt Leinart might just be the solution. competition is the elixir of success, let them compete. get the running back, then fix the offensive line. if we could do that much, it would be a good thing. Rome was not built in a day. let Sparano do what he does best, build the offensive line let Henne compete with Leinart & Thigpen for the start or something to that effect. I'm doing my best not to go negative on this debacle. you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear the price is right for Matt Leinart, I'd go that route & focus on the offensive line & running back
lol. We only have 3 WRs right now who don't really compliment each other. We need 4-5.... and IMO a guy like Tyrod is worth a roster spot as a 6th WR b/c of his xfactor dimension (especially if he continues to project as a 6th rounder). I'd go with only 4 WRs, but IMO, if you can grab a player like Little in the 4th, then you do it w/o hesitation no matter how many WRs you have. 2 years from now we could trade Marshall to give us an extra high pick as well as cutting his huge salary, and let Little step into his #1 spot w/o losing a beat. OR Little could hold down the #2 spot and Hartline becomes tradeable for a 3rd or 4th rounder. Then we'd have 4 WRs who compliment each other well (along with Tyrod). Honestly, I'd trade Hartline straight up for Little and not think twice about it. If a vet like Hasselbeck beats out Henne and offers us the best chance to win, then that's all that matters, right. Just curious, but do you not want to see what Edds can do before going back to the well? I don't see any 3rd-4th round MLBs this draft who would do more for our success than Quizz & Little could do. I dont mind Kelvin Sheppard, but is he all that different than Crowder? I wouldn't mind Courtney Upshaw next year though.
Titus is the man. Once the ball is in his hands you never know what's going to happen. He's usually good for at least five yards if he doesn't break one off for some chunk yards. Dude catches damn near everything that comes his way and has the speed to break away from any defender in the league period.
He's definitely the kind of guy Henne needs as a #2. Hartline = #2 ror Penny. Titus = #2 for Henne. The WR needs to compliment the arm that's throwing it to him. Gotta match the proper guy for the arm. With Hartline, you're limited on his vertical ability, and the placement needs to be nearly perfect b/c he's not the guy you want tracking or attacking the ball. Young on the other hand is perfect for Henne b/c he lets us properly utilize one of the stronger arms in the league. The deep ball shouldn't have to be about pinpoint accuracy. It can be about the QB simply out-throwing the coverage when your WR has a step on the DBs, knowing that no one will catch him and that all he has to do is either run under the pass or adjust laterally to track it down (which Hartline is poor at). Plus Young helps keep the safeties honest so that our ground game can be more effective on 1st and 2nd down...... and he pulls more coverage away from Marshall so that he can make more plays than he did last year. You could move Hartline to the slot on 1st and 2nd down (b/c Bess doesn't contribute much on 1st down) and have: Marshall-Hartline-Young together, which would open things up MUCH more than Marshall-Bess-Hartline..... and that trio would compliment each other very well and provide quality balance. On 3rd down, Bess would rotate in for Hartline to keep the chains moving. I'd add Greg Little to the mix and take the time to teach him all 3 positions so he can sub in and be moved all around the field to create multiple looks and different mismatches. Marshall-Young-Little would be a nasty trio, especially if Mercedes Lewis were the TE, with Ryan Williams (or Quizz Rodgers) at RB. That's 5 game changers on the field together. That's also one way to make up for not having an elite QB. You use Henne as the vessel to get these guys the ball in high percentage plays and let these studs do what they do best (along with a solid ground game). Marshall, Little, and Mercedes are huge targets that Henne should have little problem playing pitch and catch with..... and Young's tracking ability and speed will mask any downfield accuracy issues while accenting Chad's arm strength. Just my 2 cents.
Gotta keep at least 5 Wr's and especially if they plan to spead things out more this season. Could probably go to as many as 6. The added 7th or 8th were just me ribbing you a little. No, I want to see what Edds can do. I'm looking for a solid tackler to replace Crowder if he can. White is a tackling machine who could be exposed due to lack of speed so if he gets caught on passing downs they would most likely have to get the Lb's into a zone that helps him. But he has pretty solid insincts.
Friend ToddPhins said: If a vet like Hasselbeck beats out Henne and offers us the best chance to win, then that's all that matters, right. right, absolutely right, if the price is right. my point is its got to be done on the cheap until the offensive line is built & we have a running back to carry the ball. I would go with anything reasonable that would allow us to compete @ QB as we rebuild the offense unhampered in 2011
Nothing's wrong with a little ribbin, Oz. I knew you were just bustin by chops a bit. lol. How would you feel about Von Miller playing ILB for us if our Dline does a good enough job of keeping him free of trash? (eh, let's just walk away with Patrick Peterson, Von Miller, Phil Taylor, and Kendrick Ellis. That wouldn't look too bad. )
really, Matt Leinart .... most amusing ... cut Henne to pieces, but then advocate Leinart .... WOW, just W-O-W
I agree with ToddPhins basic stated philosophy. I agree that we have been good at converting 3rd downs on offense and that our offense could take a quantum leap with a few complementary pieces that will lead to more chunk yards (and points). I think the best and cheapest way to get there would be to add a TE that can threaten the seam and COP back that's explosive. And obviously we need an every down back just b/c we don't have one at all. As for the OL I don't think they were as bad as many here believe. IMO the biggest issue is how they were used. And really, the key to the running game at this level is attempts rather than effectiveness. I also agree that a speed #2 WR would help, but I think Hartline is good enough and still developing so that's further down the priority list for me. So as far as drafting a RB, OL, TE or WR early, for me its about what talent is available. In general I like, Ingram, Ryan Williams, Hunter and Locke at RB, Pouncy and Wisnewski at G, DJ Williams and Kendricks at TE and Young at WR. IN FA I like Deangelo Williams and Bush at RB. Mankins will depend on the price. At the QB position, I think most of the vets people are talking about are fantasies and often over rated fantasies. Hasselbeck would be an upgrade, but Seattle already stated they want him back so I see the odds of him leaving as remote at best. Palmer is unlikely to leave as Mike Brown is one of the most stubborn GMs around. Leinart is probably available but the odds of him being better than Henne are miniscule. Orton or Flynn I see as a possibilities, but they will be stop gaps at best and about as effective as Henne. Either way we need a developmental QB, but this may be one of the worst years in recent memory to get one. I see potential in Kaepernick and Yates, but not much else that is likely to be available for us. On defense, I want to build on our pass defense ability. I would like another pass rusher and more play making out of the S position. Maybe Reshad Jones is ready to provide that at the S position. As for pass rushing, I wonder what Edds can provide. I know he's known for his coverage, but his athleticism might work for him as a pass rusher as well. It kind of depends on his instincts.
Heres my board if I somehow we can recoup that 2nd without moving down.. 1} Mark Ingram 2} CK2 3} Greg Little 4} Stanley Havili 5} Tyrod Taylor.
