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Rooney: "Panic doesn't seem to work"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast

    Exactly, Rooney's philosophy, Consistency and Structure, has seen the Steelers to their 3rd SB in the last 6 yrs, over our last 6 yrs:

    -4 head coaches
    -10 different Qb's have started games
    -4 drafts have produced 3 current starters
    -2 head coaches have resigned
    -3 or 4 GM's have been hired

    This why I chuckle at some who get themselves worked up over the lack of instant success, if anything change does not lead to success, quite the opposite, history shows the more changes in the Staff and Front Office that are made the worse the results.
     
  2. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    There's a book about business called "Good to Great", it explains how certain companies take off, while others fail. An aspect in this book is called the "Fly wheel principle", this principle says that great company's don't become great immediately it happens over time, it uses a metaphor of a giant flywheel and a person pushing it. At first it will take a great deal of effort to get it moving, but if you stay disciplined in what you're doing over time it becomes easier to push the flywheel due to the momentum. Essentially this means that at first you won't see much progress, but over time if you stick with the right approach you'll take off.

    I recommend this book to alot of our more impatient members.
     
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  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ah uab, it is much easier to not think, scream and demand, when the fact of the matter is the NFL doesn't work like that and never has.
     
  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Anyone ever here read here Ron Wolf's "Nine Stepping Stones" book? Great stuff and talks about hiring guys and sticking them as well as letting them go.
     
  5. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    Haven't read it, but I'll have to check it out.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well the thing that strikes me is how bad franchises change coaches often, good franchises do not, the sole exception being the horribly mismanaged Bengals, change for changes sakes does not work very well in the NFL.
     
  7. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Yes, Mr. Rooney and some of you make a good point. Change isn't always a good thing. BUT, that doesn't change the fact that this is the NFL and it's very difficult to succeed with even the best coaching staff. That means if you give a bad head coach enough time he still won't take a team to a Superbowl.

    Also, let's not make Rooney out to be some super patient dude. Bottom line is, he has hired good people and Tomlin had instant success. And getting a very good QB has certainly helped their cause.

    In conclusion, as it always has been in the NFL it has much more to do with finding the right people and getting a franchise QB. Those are the recipes for success. Those of you thinking we can duplicate the Steeler's success by waiting on Henne to become the QB he can probably never become are mistaken. But maybe Sparano can be that coach. He has 1 maybe 2 more years to prove it.
     
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  8. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    ROFL!!! I swear this board is bipolar. It's been nothing but fire henning, fire sparano, fire ireland, cut henne. Now it's stability breeds success. Has no one been listening to me? I've been saying for the past month that change for the sake of change is a bad thing.
     
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  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    They won with K Stewart, Neil O'Donnell and Mike Tomczak.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    3 of 4 isn't bad, Ross is willing to spend, Irish can find talent, and Sparano's record is over .500 for his time in Miami.

    The only one who hasn't shown they can succeed in the NFL is that dude wearing #7 and playing Qb.

    But even then, if he can prove to Sparano he can turn things around then I don't have a problem with him though I also would not mind seeing him replaced.

    My only agenda is for the Dolphins to win, there are players I like and ones whom I do not like, whether they play or not is not my decision to make and they are playing for the Phins so I'll cheer when the do well and boo when the do poorly.

    That is being a fan Trowa.
     
  12. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    I'm just going to assume you missed the irony of your own remarks and move on.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We dont know what we have at this point...they have things they have to prove..

    The theory is flawed imo in our case...Their both in a deserved state of limbo...Their gonna have to show they can overcome before they get the card your talking about Padre..

    1 and 9 in your last 10, in your third year of rebuilding at home, justifies what iam sayin..
     
  14. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    THe problem with this stability debate is always that someone wants to make one answer the end all and the ONE key to success or failure and it could not be farther from the truth. I honestly don't know why we even go there.

    Yes, admittedly, once you have a talented foundation, consistency will breed success. That is a no brainer.
    Having said that, some of you seem to forward the concept that if we stick with anybody long enough that success will be achieved. That's an incredibly naive viewpoint.

    The old story of the Tortoise and the Hare which proclaims that the steady and consistent will win the race teaches a great lesson but again it is not absolute.

    Take the Hare and convince him to accept some of the Tortoises strategies/concepts and then the Hare wins every time because he's simply more talented.

    You cannot ignore the concept of talent and expect consistency will win out.

    Give Wannstedt another 5 years and we'd still be regressing as an organization. That I can guarantee you.
    You need to find a talented base before you can stick with it. If you stick with subpar talent you will continue to get subpar results.
    Such a simple truth that gets ignored in these simplified discussions about "consistency".

    You need a balance of a number of things. Consistency is just one of them and consistency means nothing if the talent of the team and staff is subpar.

    Also to those that continue to paint this organization as being historically "knee jerk" and "impatient".
    It simply is NOT true and there is nothing to support it.

    The turnover in coaching has either been from extreme circumstances in the case of Jimmy Johnson and Nick Saban to legitimate questions of talent in the case of Wanny and Cameron. There has been no "knee jerking" at all. The situation with Sparano is the first one you could make an argument that "knee Jerk reactions" may be a legitimate claim for this organization.

    The real problem with this organization has been bad decisions, bad luck and a complete neglect of the concept of the importance of a good GM working in tandem with a good coach.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ah CR, difference being Wanny inherited, Sparano is building we placed 4 players into the pro bowl this yr for the first time in 7 seasons, the team has gotten younger and the high draft choices have panned out far better than they have in over a decade.

    2 resignations and 1 firing in the last 6 yrs is not exactly "stability personafied".
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    At home means absolutely nothing in a football sense Deej, -0-, da nada, nein, it matters if you are trying to sell tickets for home games.

    We are a slightly below .500 team, that is what we are, the question then becomes where are we going from here?
     
  17. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    I have no problem with the concept of "consistency" being argued for continuing to stick with Sparano longer.
    None at all.

    I have a serious problem with the concept of "consistency" being cited for the failings of the Phins franchise over the past decade however.
    The main causes were not a lack of willingness to adhere to the concept of consistency.
     
  18. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Three years isn't 'instant'. I chuckle at fans who are so beat down they can't fathom that with the right people in place even the Dolphins could become a contender within three years. The NFL is made to facilitate those kinds of turnarounds. I guess Wanny should have been kept for the entire decade to make sure we knew what he really was as a coach.

    Rooney has had the good fortune of not hiring a bad coach. Of course he doesn't reject candidates for being too hip hop so that probably helps him find the right guy. The only panic we've fallen victim to was Wayne Huizenga deciding he had to have Parcells come in and steal some money and hire all of his dallas buddies.

    As bad as Dolphins leadership is at choosing coaches it would be better just to stick with what we have. Mediocre is the best they've done since they hired Shula. Odds are whoever they brought in would be even worse than Sparano. To me that is the best justification for staying the course. The high probability that the FO will screw up again. I mean do the Dolphins ever choose the right person for coach or QB? No, not since 1983.
     
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  19. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Bloated from 08. Looking at the total body of work you see losing seasons two out of three times. That's not even necessarily the problem, the problem is that even after three years there are more questions than answers. And the most important position on the team is still light years away from being settled. Nobody in their right mind would expect anything more than 7-9 to 9-7 next year for the Dolphins. It's hard to imagine you can rebuild an entire offense in one offseason. They should be needing to completely rebuild any unit at this point. Things should have been starting to come together right now. The defense was able to make leaps and bounds in one offseason but you don't have to find a QB for defense. And there wasn't as big of a need on the line on defense either.
     
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  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We will disagree on that one CR, it could be said "Wanny was consistent and look where it got us" however that is a shallow view, Wanny the GM sank the franchise simply because he consistently traded away high draft choices and then drafted poorly afterwards.

    Real consistency is a two pronged approach, Coaching and Talent Acquisition mated to Stability ie Moving in a proper direction as one entity, that has not happened since Parcells arrived and even then Ross's Big Adventure nearly blew it all up in favor of the failed tactics of the past ten yrs.
     
  21. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Sparano is a winner yet Henne isn't?

    The only difference is that Henne didn't get the benefit of that ridiculously easy schedule of 2008

    Sparano is on the hot seat because just like Henne, he hasn't progressed in his job. Three years in and he's being forced to change his stripes or else. I fail to see the consistency.... not when he's being told to be a different coach or pack his bags.
     
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  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It requires time to discover if a young Qb will develop, or not, that slows or stops the entire offensive development.

    I'd also point out that objectively, the first two yrs the offense was fine, there was no way of knowing that Ronnie and Ricky would fall of the cliff production wise, or Marshall would only have 4 TD's, and they fixed the Defense in 10 after 09's debacle so there are reasons to believe they can manage fixing the offense for 2011.
     
  23. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    the reference to 'Good to Great' is a good one and perfectly applicable when talking about PIT ...

    that organization HAS an indentity and has stuck with that identity since at least the 70s .... they have been a defensive oriented team for at least as long as i can remember - and their focus remains the same. Of course their best 'runs' have come with a respectable offense, namely a QB (such as now and in the 70s).

    it isn't rocket science ... Rooney is a football guy, classy owner - and wants a certain type of team. he then brings in good, quality people who share those same ideas, values and vision. He is the antithesis of guys like Jones, Schnieder and even ours .... the owner must have a vision and hire CEO/GM, etc in accordance with that vision -- not the next 'hot' guy .... change is NOT a good thing, you can't change from an defense 1st to offense 1st team and expect long term success. you put a good quality product on the field every year by sticking with the vision .... and you reach greatness in those periods when you can get that offense that top notch defense deserves ....

    personally, whilst i am not a PIT fan -- and i do very much hope that GB beats them tomorrow; they are the team i do respect most in this league based on the above.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Or

    Ross is saying that stuff publicly and Sparano is going to do what he thinks is best.
     
  25. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i still disagree with the 'consistency' sentiment and Sparano .... dude should have been fired ..... i still believe that, and have more optimism in Henne becoming at least an average QB than i do in Sparano becoming a good/above average coach.

    i understand the merit of stability .... but as articulated above, it's the organizational goals that MUST be staunch and consistent. Exactly what are our organizational goals ?? Defense 1st, Running Game .... what ??? We should know that, heck - everyone should know it.

    IF we had stable organizational goals, changing a HC would not 'significantly' change the direction of the team or the type of player the team looks for.
     
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  26. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Oh absolutely, because I have no faith what so ever that Sparano is willing or able to change. And putting too much stock in him is a dangerous thing.... it's what led Wayne H to let WannSpiel mortgage the farm.

    You may be able to point to a couple things and say hey we're on the right track, that it's solid...... but our HC isn't one of them.
     
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  27. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    It requires much more time when the coaching staff is utterly clueless about developing that young QB. Unfortunately for Henne he's going into his 4th season and the young QB thing isn't going to be working for him much longer. Especially considering that he started four full seasons at Michigan.

    R&R's production dropoff wasn't THAT hard to predict. From a probability standpoint Ronnie could have easily missed significant parts of the season from injury. And Ricky was 32. I think a lot of staffs would have already had a new guy in the mix. All I'[m saying here really is that the FO would have been justified in firing Sparano and it wouldn't have been an indication of panic.
     
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  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Or, the guy had his chance and failed? That is the downside of going with a young Qb..they don't always pan out.


    They went from Top 15 backs all the way down to the 40's, that was forseeable?

    Anywho, rebuilding a running game is not that difficult to accomplish..once you know you have to rebuild one.
     
  29. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    I think its the other way around. The worse the results, the more changes in the staff and front office. Honestly, has any of the coaching changes made in Miami been undeserving? Cameron is the only one who was actually fired. Shula quit. JJ quit. Wannstedt quit. Saban quit. Cameron was fired. Sparano is one limb away from hangman.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Err.what? All of those changes and none were really upgrades over Shula, why would one more change "be different this time"?
     
  31. bdhock

    bdhock Old Bricklayer

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    I have always been a dolphin fan but being from PA I have followed the steelers some. Stable management and patients has always been a key to there success, I think Ireland is a GM we can gain some stability with. I think people should look at our roster after the 1-15 season and look at it now. As much as I liked cowher I was glad we did not sign him if he wanted us to get rid of our GM. Steeler success does not start with the coach it starts at the top,when Cowher resigned did the steelers go out and hire a big name coach who wanted total control , no they got someone who worked into there structure. Ross scares me a little bit, he reminds me of someone who wants more instant gratification and not someone who will leave a team develop.
     
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  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well as for Ross, keep in mind a 1-7 home record is not exactly what he had in mind, neither was 7-9 after spending big bucks on Dansby and Marshall so his Big Adventure was not completely out of line, but I do agree, he had his moment in the sun he should step back now.
     
  33. bdhock

    bdhock Old Bricklayer

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    point well taken, there is a fine line between being a passionate owner and being Daniel synder.
     
  34. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Padre, true enough when comparing PIT to our regime over what i call our 'lost decade' .... but again i defer to consistent vision of what this team is.

    acknowledging Wanny was a 'defensive' oriented coach .... his vision of defense is/was different than Saban's (namely speed vs size). so it called for a overhaul even of what might have been looked at as our strength. then you bring in CAM ... an offensive mind -- and look what he did to our personnel. lastly, we bring in Parcells' who went back to a more Saban-like roster and principle. The main difference between Saban and Parcells was that Saban was willing to take chances with 'athletes' in the draft, and Parcells is pretty risk aversive.

    the point though is that yes, things change 'slightly' with personnel strengths .... but principles remain the same from GM to GM and Coach to Coach. you don't sacrifice your principles and vision .... ever.

    we could take this further ... remember we went to the SB with David Woodley ..... comparable to Tomczak .... but the derth of defense during the Marino years cost this franchise heavily; regardless of the injury shortened careers of the likes of Offerdahl and failed high price FAs.

    it still all comes down to failed vision and consistency ........
     
  35. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Did you watch the games last year ????? Sometimes I question it Pads. The reason R & R "fell off" last year was because we broke up the OLine that was the 4th best in '09 for cheaper players. Sparano let his "guru" label get to his head and he & Ireland miscalculated how good their poor moves would be on the OLine. Even Berry Sanders in his hayday would have found it hard to rush consistantly behind the crap OLine we had last year. C'mon dude, you are better than this, you are not this naive.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, doesn't matter now DJ, one or both will not be back in Miami, though I think they should keep Ronnie Brown.

    As for the Oline moves, we will never know who was responsible for making those decisions, do believe the problems will be fixed this offseason.
     
  37. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    You have more faith than I do then. This is their 4th year and OL was supposed to be one of the 1st areas fixed by them. Its still a mess and what I really feel screwed the team last year, more than Henne's INT's. If we had had a strong running game, Henne would not have been in so many of the 3 and long's that caused his INT's. That all falls squarely on Sparano, and Ireland too. You know the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. They fooled us once last year with their arrogant moves, to try and save some money.
     
  38. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    How do you upgrade over the winningest coach in NFL history? Your logic doesn't make sense. We haven't found a great coach yet, therefore we never will? Makes no sense.
     
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  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, Packers followed Curley Lambeau with Vince Lombardi.

    Anywho, you are merely saying the same thing as I did, only I went a bit further and took the position that Consistency and Stability are keys to success, have no idea where you are coming from in thinking my position is any different than yours.

    Thusly the "err what" reply.
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Only some wins count?

    And is it that difficult to piece together that the team was winning despite Henne being the starting Qb?

    And "yes" that is 90% of my view of Chad Henne, dude is fishlike, lots of action, few results.

    Is he? Or is that for public consumption?

    When we go heavily into repairing the running game, what then?
     

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