Orton I could live with but really I don't think we have the ammunition to trade for him, I wouldn't give up the 15th pick for him. Young on the other hand would make me loose all faith in the front office, I'm sorry but Young is simply a loser that has lost confidence and turned into a cancer/team killer. Henne is a way better option for the team than Young. Young is a head case that no good front office would consider bringing in.
Well, let me ask you, if Chad Henne was waived tomorrow, which team would pick him up and make him the Starter heading into Training Camp?
Heading into training camp? I could see Arizona, San Fran, Carolina, Minnesota and Oakland. I could see him winning the job at a few other places (maybe even with the Jets).
AZ is going to sign Marc Bulger MN Frazier has said they will draft a franchise Qb, or Qb "for the future" SF: Harbaugh is likely to resign Alex Smith Oakland: Al Davis loves Jason Campbell and pretty much fired Tom Cable because he preferred Gradkowski over Campbell Carolina is a good possibility as a Starter, but they were also 2-14 last yr.
I agree with you. Henne never seemed to take ownership of the team, or even the offense. And Marshall & Fasano were both visibly frustrated with him. I've come to believe that the team as a whole preferred Pennigton, coaches included, but Henne was forced on them by management. Where I disagree is that He lost his confidence/swagger. I just think defenses started playing zone coverages, caught on to the tendencies of the offense as a whole, and w/o a run game to keep them off balance, the offense was what it became. Any time teams veered away from the zone/cover 2 looks, Henne moved the ball with relative ease. What we need to do IMO, is revive the run game, add some speed and playmaking ability, and then I think we'll see the "confident" Henne return.
I dont have to know you. I can tell by the massive amount of mental gymnastics that you go thru in order to make your points that you have a personal bias against him. Orton looked like a a career back up until his 4th season, but you won't even give Henne a 4th season at all. You say Henne "collapsed" down the stretch going 0-3, ignoring Orton's 2-8 record after a 6-0 start and his 4-12 record this year. Young's team has no starter, no back up, and they still want him on the 1st bus outta town. Palmer is clearly on the decline, the Bengals added Owns, Gresham, & Shipley to Benson and Ocho, and Palmer was bad or worse for much of the year anyway. Ten straight losses at one point. You point to Henne's checkdowns this year, ignoring that he faced Cover 2 for most of the year, ignoring that his 20+ yd completions nearly doubled this season, while his 40+ yd completions stayed the same despite losing his only real deep threat. You jump thru so many logical hoops and argue in so many circles, using so many double standards, that its obvious to anyone paying attention that you're heavily biased. And having not watched much more than a handful of Orton's/Young's/Palmer's games, it makes it hard to even see there you're coming from at all.
From Shula/Marino to my wife/young nephew, no one know what will become of Henne. The only facts we have now are that he is an average QB, who could have used a lot more surrounding help than he got from players and coaches. Nothing more or less.
I'm a Gator grad and fan and i still live in Gainesville. That said, it would be stupid of the Broncos to trade Orton.
Shiiid. All Marino has to do is come to thephins.com and the resident QB gurus will school him on how bad Henne "sucks".
Marino has said that Henne does not make the players around him better. The question for everyone is, "Will Henne improve." Unless you are Toddphins and the question is, "How does Miami create an offense full of all-pros so Henne can be a successful quarterback?"
To be fair, both sides of the Henne debate have reasons to be right and wrong. If Henne is anything, it has been inconsistent. He has shown enough good things to like him, and enough bad things not to. I believe he will be at least an above average QB but, that is up to him this year.
Denial is not a river in Egypt GMJ. I know Henne did not have the courage to make the throws Cover 2 requires to beat it down the field, and he is not accurate enough consistently to hit the underneath stuff to Receivers in stride and heading down hill. As well as it being a "fact" that once TO was out, lo and behold, Palmer played outstanding football. And you have more accusations than a teenage daughter's father when she came home late, it is as if you sling them to bolster what you know is a faulty premise. Not that I mind, when the facts are not on your side then pound the table.
Yes, all this is true and don't forget to add that Henne did not help himself either. I never claimed to know what will become of Henne but I do know that Orton has been better. But there has to be some equal to better competition for Henne. It's good for both Henne, and the team.
LMAO, way to come thru for me Pads. Palmer was sucking for most of the year b/c T.O. was on the field w/ him? That's your story? Too funny. So I guess Henne had a good game vs Oakland once Marshall wasn't around to mess him up . I must admit, I do get a kick out of playing what will Pads say next . As for the Cover 2. Have a look at our roster, and our playcalls, and you'll see pretty quickly that we just didnt have the tools to attack that particular coverage. No one to threaten the seam, no RBs to threaten the flats and anchor the corners, no speed outside to get on top of the safeties. No running game to force teams out of the Cover 2. Hartline is the only guy who was even remotely capable of getting deep, and even he needed play action, double moves, or flea flickers to help him out. Once he went down... Basically, we were exposed by NE and we got Covered 2'd to death all year. The few teams that played man (Green Bay, NYJ, Oakland) paid dearly for it. It wasn't a lack of courage, it was a lack of talent on offense. But again, you're so obsessed with your Henne bashing you don't want to hear anything else. Riiight. I dont make accusations, but I will point out the ignorance of claiming Kyle Orton, or Vince Young, or Carson Palmer would be a good fit when you haven't even watched them play. I love facts, actually. In fact, wake me up when you make a thread with some actual facts in it. You can start with a few facts about how Henne was too afraid to throw downfield. Fact is, his 20+ yd pass plays were way up last year, from 24 to 37. His YPA went up. His YPC went up. His 40+ yd plays were equal. His TD% was up. INT % up. Sack % up. Doesnt sound like the spineless coward you're describing. So C'mon, post some of those facts that I dont like. I'm ready to start pounding the table already.
What a crock. He made the Bills & Browns look damn good when they were around him . Seriously though. Chad Henne is not a difference maker, he's a facilitator. He can hand off, play action, make a good throw now and then. He's not a guy who can carry a team, not many guys can, especially when they are still early in their careers. Guys like that come along every few years, they damn sure don't last until the 57th pick often. Just b/c he's not the saviour doesn't mean he sucks though. And when I look around at the other available QBs, Henne starts to look better and better. If there's a top flight prospect in the draft at QB, I'd love to have him, but so would most of the teams picking ahead of us and quite a few of the teams picking behind us. Realistically, this isn't a good year for us to address the position with a long term solution. And the short term solutions arent much better than what we already have. What we can do, is upgrade our talent at other positions like OL, RB, WR, TE, KR, pass rusher, safety etc, Henne aint the only wart by a longshot.
Well, I am convinced the only way Henne will become a solid NFL Qb is a no huddle/3 wr's style of base offense, his performance in the Lions game, the first half performance, was as good as I've seen him play, that said, he also could function under your caretaker Qb role, say 28 passes per game or less and a good running game. However, I think that would be a waste, and more of the same for him and us, we need more and imho he thinks he can do more but things had gotten so bad between Henning and Lee and himself he was simply not asked or allowed to expand his horizons. Recall in the Shula interview he mentioned that there are things Henne does well, and things he does not do well, they should find more ways to have him doing what he does do well. And let me praise Henne a bit, dude is tough as nails, that to me is his redeeming quality for me and the sole reason why I will say he sucked when he sucked, but also do think he can still turn things around, but he has to earn it as imho his largest issue is not his play on the field, it his teammates no longer believe in him imho. When he threw that int on the first or second drive vs the Patriots the wheels came off of the entire team they'd seen it happen all yr long and they just lost faith that he would bounce back and lead the team.
And GMJ, it is quite true, CK did a study on Carson Palmer and 9 of his 18 int's came trying to force the ball into TO. Not saying Palmer is not a flawed Qb, not at all, am saying TO's presence messed that offense up badly.
I think Henne's biggest problem with zones are how they disguise them. Two plays are covering 5 points of the zone and then they use man outside, or vise versa. He knows what to do I'm sure, but the confidence lacks on his decision making. I think that with a better OC, we COULD see better results. They need to go spead now and then but that only helps so much because unless the 3 or 4 Wr's stay on the field most of the time, it is easy to adjust to what they're trying to accomplish. The best way is to beat it in his head that he needs to study the film and see where the safties are lined up for each particular team. Learn there baits and tendancies. Also have him, on his own, use motion to see if there might be a possible blitz and further check the movement of the Lb's. It's not all about trying to beat it deep and he did that quite a few times and got burnt. They also better get some crossing patterns going underneath with spread formations because when they connect on them at the same time that the X and or Z pull a safety to them, it makes for possible huge gains. Somethings we hardly saw from Henning. It's not all about the personel either. It's how you use what you have and what they have is pretty good. But hardly anthing works when you cannot run the ball well enough......
Dont wanna go this route of signing a free agent QB.. Vince young would be the only one I would do serious Leg and mind work on...I would rather Draft one high, and just stick with what we have...develope the young stud, and let him compete..must believe in your ability to identify a young QB with great upside.
The Denver Post has been posting this same story since the end of the regular season. It all depends whether Elway and Fox are sold on Tebow being their QB. The fans in Denver are in love with Tebow, but I still think he has a lot to prove. I would take Orton over McNabb, Kolb, Young or any other available veteran QB.
I doubt Orton will be available. Once they get into off-season training, I think they'll realize just how far Tebow is from being a competent starter. I see our team looking to the draft - not for an immediate replacement of Henne but to begin the QB pipeline. If we follow the old Green Bay model of taking one QB per draft, odds are we'll eventually solve the position.
Henne getting benched a few times through out the season, thats what does it for me. Why bench the guy for Penny, and then late in the year sub him in and out with Thiggy. Thats what wierds me out. Showed me/the rest of us that the staff didn't have confidence in him. Maybe his supporting cast played a role, but wouldn't you still let him play it out for experience nonetheless? Thats the kicker for me. It's hard to badger on fans for not having confidence in Henne going forwards when Miami's coaches seemed to reiterate some of the same. I'd like to see Henne have a better supporting cast as well, but there seemed to be issues. If Daboll can work wonders with Henne then great, but I doubt that they benched Henne and subd him like they did because of his "environment" being weak. It's more on the quarterback, or else they'd have let him ride it out.
I would take mcnabb over any of them...I think the warm climate would make him happy, and reenergized to play hard..I saw an interview where he came across like, he was really ready to rededicate himself to the game, and to a new team... If I rish wants to go the free agency route, he would be my target.
Hmm, how about I've watched every game the man has played in the NFL? How about checking down with 40 seconds left in the 2nd Bills game..in the middle of the field? Sparano lamely tried to give him some protection by saying "the coverage dictated it"..well duh, he had to make a throw that mattered, he checked down instead, the 1st patriots game as well. This is nothing new GMJ.
