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Henne or Bust in 2011

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Southbeach, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Is this a trick question?
     
  2. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    We won't be a solid superbowl contender or even an AFC championship contender for two years. The older players that are leaving will leave holes and the QB issue is not a quick fix. We are making good progress however, but, this draft will be key to the time line.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pod, our defense was #6 total last year, and #2 in the red zone...were stacked at dline, and Misi and Wake our cornerstones, you cant spend the #15th pick on a situational player, and you cant afford to take reps away from Misi...Were totally stacked on the Dline..I mean really stacked, our defense is gonna be really good Pod, their all young, athletic, theres good speed throughout..

    We dont need Aldon..I think the players we have {sign MCD please} will adhere to the philosophy you wish for..Defense has a chance to be top 3.

    Draft CKap, and watch how hard he will try to get on thefield, and watch how fast the fanbase will get behind him to play early.
     
  4. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    You said it all. I was sort of interested in Orton, but if he is staying put there really isn't any other FA I want.

    Re other posts in this thread..yeah, we should work on the running game, but it's a passing league. The days of Csonka/Kiick/Morris are gone forever. Or at least for the next couple of years, because nothing lasts forever in this game.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Disagree that whole "passing league" stuff is causing defenses to change a bit too much, now Strong Safeties are the new ILB's, which means if you can find backs that can defeat the other team's SS you can change your team's fortunes.

    Of course they could leave their 2 down ILB in the game..:yes:
     
  6. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Hope you're right. I miss the days when the NFL was a running league. And the days when the Phins won Super Bowls...
     
  7. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Well I think I have to agree with keypusher... but only to an extent. It's not gone forever; it's like the stock market... it'll fix itself in due time. 20 years from now, we're going to look back and wonder why we passed so much.

    But if you look at the successful teams around the league, many of them have elite passers and the running backs for said teams are a bunch of scrubs or fill-ins. The Patriots, Packers, Colts and Saints are good examples.

    On the other end of the spectrum, teams with so-so QBs and elite runners (or rely heavily on the run game) have treaded in mediocrity in recent years; Jets, Titans, Vikings, Panthers, Jaguars, 49ers.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You miss the point, look at the teams you named, think about how they got there, and realize by the time we get there the team will have turned over due to FA, if we go heavy in the run game, we gain an instant advantage.

    Folks will say:

    "well Blount and Foster were UDFA's"

    True, but that is the wrong lesson to take from those two, what if more talented backs were in those jobs?

    They skimped on 50% of their offense with substandard players.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not saying if we draft talented running backs or fix the running game we go to the SB, what I am saying is that is the best route to take..for us.

    When you move with the rest of the league you will always be behind the curve, the idea is to be ahead of the curve first.
     
  10. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Ehhhhhhh I mean the Colts got Edge, the Pats Corey Dillon, the Packers Ahman Green and the Saints..... Ricky Williams? I'm not getting it. None of them had anything to do with the success those teams have had.

    We're closest to emulating the Packers, so let's break them down.

    They started off with a then-semi-effective veteran in Brett Favre, with decent offensive pieces around him, a bad offensive line and an OK defense.

    We're passed that.

    They got rid of Favre and added more playmakers to the offense (Jermichael Finley), but focused more on improving their defense.

    That's where I think we are right now.

    Then, they scrambled to fix runningback with low-key guys, while adding the finishing touches elsewhere (Raji, Matthews, Bulaga), all the while they had a first year starter and unproven QB in Aaron Rodgers.

    This is where we can be this year. 8-8.

    Then, they largely kept that same team into the next year (continuity is key!), but finished off a superbowl product with guys like Shields.

    Target.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not at all, they had pieces around Favre that Rodgers inherited and then they built around them moving forwards.

    Why is that LT's contribution to Brees and Rivers success is not mentioned?

    Why is Ahman Green and Dorsey Levins not mentioned in conjunction with Favre?

    Michael Turner's contribution to Matt Ryan?

    And we are nowhere near where the Packers are, not even close, if anything we are nearer to the Chargers circa the early 2000's.

    And yet, this idea persists that "just get a Qb!!!"

    Nay Bro, we are not even close to being there of yet, go with the running game and we will win.
     
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  12. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    They're not mentioned because they didn't contribute to a SUPERBOWL. We want a superbowl, not to be the team whose player goes first in fantasy football drafts or the highest-rated team on Madden.

    Let's take a look at the top 5 passing teams in the league last year:

    1-Colts (29)
    2-Chargers (15)
    3-Saints (28)
    4-Texans (7)
    5-Packers (24)

    The number in parentheses is where they ranked in rushing ( coincidence that Houston was the worst of those teams? :angry: ).

    Two conclusions can be drawn from this list:

    1) Every team in the top 5 passing category last year is a legitimate superbowl contender for 2011.

    2) As a general statement, they are not running teams, nor do they have the players equipped to do so. (This includes Houston, who lacked a viable backup to Foster, which attributed to his late-season decline).

    By contrast, the best rushing teams were:

    1-Chiefs
    2-Raiders
    3-Jaguars
    4-Jets
    5-Eagles (Only because of Vick; LeSean McCoy is a VERY average runner, although his receiving skills are good.)

    Which group of teams do you think is better?
     
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    We HAVE to bring in Matt Hasselbeck if he gets free.
     
  14. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    My only objection to him is his health. He's had a lot of back trouble these past couple of years.

    If he could stay healthy (the Seahawks wouldn't let him go), I'd be all for it, but I just don't think he can. If he gets smacked by a defensive end and he's out for 4 weeks, we're out a roster spot, several million dollars, and worst of all, we're back where we started...
     
  15. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Not quite! This is still, for the most part, a run first league. If you cannot run the ball efficiently, it's hard to just pass...pass pass
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which team plays it's games in 95 degree heat?

    And once again, you are chasing the curve, tell me how were those teams built, how long did it take?

    Eagles have been the same team since 2000, Pack hasn't changed since Holmgren, Colts have had Manning since 98, Texans are arguably the only team that started from scratch recently and have had success with a passing offense, and they have yet to make the playoffs.

    Look at the 5 rushing teams you listed, KC, Oakland, Jags, Jets, Eagles.

    They all had better records than we did..why do you suppose that is? Because we ran the ball too much, or to little?

    This is the reality for us, Henne is likely to be the Qb, we'd better do something else really well.
     
  17. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Henne or bust ? They are the same thing
     
  18. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    In bold are playoff teams! 3 for each catagory! Looks pretty damned equal to me........
     
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  19. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    +1

    Build up the rest of the offense this year so if Henne does fall on his face, our new QB in 2012 will have a nice situation to walk into.

    2 or 3 more solid players on defense and we'll have a monster.

    ST scares me lol
     
  20. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    call me crazy but I still like this Locker kid if he is there at 15
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Jags were in the playoff chase until MJD's knee gave out on him.

    What I had in mind was not the impossible, quite the opposite it is totally possible and easily accomplished.

    Since 08, the one area they have disappointed in is not finding "acorns" during the season, Irish was money in 08 at finding guys who could play well during the season, since then he just has not been as sharp.
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The thing about ST is, good ST have fast linebackers, they make the unit, our unit was poor, we will be getting new linebackers one way or another.
     
  23. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I was thinking that as well but then again so was SD. Right in the hunt til the end but lets not forget the Steelers either....
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Would love to know what happened inside the team during the last season collapse.

    Though, let me point out that we would not have made the playoffs even if we had beaten those 4 teams, basically all that happened if we had won is the the Jets would have played their starters vs Buffalo, those early season losses to the Jets, Pats, Stealers and Ravens just sunk us.

    If we had won we would have picked in the low 20's, instead of #15, that is about all that would have been accomplished in the big picture.
     
    Ozzy likes this.
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You're crazy, Colin Kaepernick all the way. He can actually throw the ball to an open man.
     
  26. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Lmao.... man you're ridiculous.... let me put this into terms that I think you might understand.

    If you have three baggies of cocaine on the left and three baggies of marijuana on the right, you have an equal number of baggies.

    However, this does not mean that the value of the baggies on the left and right are equal.

    Are you starting to get the idea?

    Eagles have had MANY changes over the past decade, including two quarterback changes in the past year and a half. The one constant was that they never ran the football. They had Westbrook for the 2000's and all he did was take pitches and screen passes and when his time was up, they went out and got the same exact thing in LeSean McCoy. Who is the last traditional runner they've had? Herschel Walker? LOL! This team has been to the superbowl and is an annual playoff contender and it hasn't been since they stopped running the ball. Stats don't lie. To quote a man known well, "You are what your record says you are."

    Packers haven't changed since Holmgren? Lol I don't even know where to begin on this one... I think this just proves that you're not being serious and that you're trying to see how long of a response you can get out of me. Back to your notion, if by "haven't changed," you mean put the team on the shoulders of a hall of fame quarterback and then plug in a bunch of no-names for the occasional run play, then yes.... but why bring this up? It helps my point.

    Colts have had Manning since 98. Exactly. Edgerrin James is the only runner they had since 98 and he had ZERO impact on making the passing game better. That's not to say he didn't have an amazing career, but Manning actually improved a bit when Edge left.

    As for the Texans, their record actually got worse when they became a "running team" this year. I don't mean to say they were first in the league in rushing, but they gave Arian Foster the ball over 300 times. Something unprecedented for them.

    Look at that same list of "rushing teams" -- when is the last time any one of them won the superbowl? The Packers won it this year, so you can't beat the first group, but you COULD come close, right? :)

    *HINT*

    The team that won it did it nearly 30 years ago and was in a different city than it is now :sidelol:

    I'm also going to add a list of the last ten superbowl winners:

    Packers
    Saints
    Steelers
    Giants
    Colts
    Steelers
    Patriots
    Patriots
    Buccaneers
    Patriots

    They all got there because of their quarterbacks. Even the Giants. The three-headed monster wasn't born yet; that offense was all about Burress/Shockey/Toomer and Tampa had Johnson throwing to McCardell and Keyshawn. Both of those teams debatably got there due to their defense, but on the offensive side of the ball, they were clearly passing teams. A look at the other QBs; Roethlisberger, Brady, Brees, etc furthers the notion that passing teams win superbowls in this era.



    I'm under the impression that you're an older member of these forums, agewise... And I respect that, I do. It makes it easier to see where you're coming from and it tells me that you're from another era. The league has changed, though. You may not have noticed, having watched it constantly these years, but it's changed. It's all about the quarterback now.
     
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  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Of course, the Bucs won because of their Qb?

    Really?

    I would suggest you take a look, a serious look, at how those teams you listed were built, look at their Qb's, and how long it took them to be good enough to even reach the SB let alone win one, and then get back to me.

    And therein is the problem, all opinions may be valid, but not all opinions are informed ones.

    Put it this way, you point to the Eagles, they have made 5 NFC title games, never won a SB, they do exactly what you suggest is the "best" approach, and they had a top 3 pick, why did they fail to win a SB when they are the epitome of what you think is needed in a SB winning team?
     
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  28. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    You, sir, are a selective reader. You pick and choose (whether or not this is purposeful or not is beyond me, and quite frankly I don't care, because your reputation is in my doghouse) what you want and then fill the rest in with either fallacious or completely made-up information. I try to like you.... for several weeks, I DID like you! Yet time and time again, you give me reasons to feel the contrary. This will be my last post in this thread, as it has proved to be a maelstrom of nonsense with you and Ozzy trying to gain eachothers' worthless approvals.... so here it is:

    I NEVER said the Eagle are the epitome of what we need to become in order to be a superbowl contender. Where did I say that? Where did I imply it? I went out of my way to separate them from the other top rushing teams, because they're not one. Earlier int his thread, I even outlined a vague plan on how to emulate the PACKERS, which you acknowledged!!!! You are INSANE.

    (Anyone who wants to post a creative "u mad bro" de-motivational picture, feel free, because I'm damn mad)

    I take my time to create well-thought out and informational posts, scouring the internet for statistics and you just come back with absolute garbage. It's not that I have trouble comprehending you; it's just pure lunacy.

    More proof that you're a selective reader?

    I hate to pull a Pee Wee Herman Rubber-Glue, but REALLY?!

    I'm done.

    I'll see you in your next Vince Young thread.
     
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  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    :yawn:

    See, when there is a long post, it simply is not worth the time to go through and point out all of the ill conceived notions contained therein.

    For myself, the mewling about "omg it is a passing league! We have to pass the ball! get a Qb with a first rd pick!"

    Is so laughable as to almost no longer be funny, wishing never accomplished anything Hurricane, it takes yrs to develop a Qb, and where there is a young Qb who has developed rapidly the plain fact is they rode the running game to get there, Falcons, Jets, look at their Feature Backs or committment to running the ball.
     
  30. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Rams have had a pro bowl running back since 2006, where has that gotten them ?
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ask Sam Bradford.
     
  32. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    exactly my point. Prior to having a good QB under center Steven Jackson did nothing in regards to wins or losses. Three years 5 wins total. One year, with a rookie QB and they win 7 games, amazing. Add to that can anyone even name 2 receivers for the rams off the top of their heads ? No.

    I am as old fashioned as they come and even I admit, without a very good QB, you ain't going no where brother. Rams and AZ Cardinals, basically same teams traveling in different directions, why ? One lost their QB, one got their QB.

    You can throw any stats at me, show some made up determinations that you think are correct, its the QB dude
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Texas have a top passing game and have yet had a playoff victory.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Other way around, Bradford had to have Jackson to be a effective Qb, which is usually the case.

    A young Qb without a dominant running game is not going anywhere until they have some semblance of one.

    If you run the ball consistently for positive yds you win football games.
     
  35. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    And a top running game.

    If they had a coach who knew how to close out a game they would of prob won 3-4 more games last year.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I see it differently, to me the Texans are shorting their running game by using Foster, if Foster ran a 4.73 then how much better would a more physically talented running back do in that offense?

    THAT is the opportunity imho, when the Rams were the Greatest Show on Turf, they had Marshall Faulk, now a great offense will try to get by with UDFA which is a downgrade clearly, but in today's NFL Faulk does not go #2 overall, they'd rather have Pierre Thomas.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Like Steve Slaton?
     
  38. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    lol So you're saying Foster isn't physically talented? :lol:

    Come on Padre, did you watch him this year? He fits their scheme perfectly.

    How much better would a physically gifted RB do in the offense? Idk could he win the rushing title twice in one season?
     
  39. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Ahman Green :lol:
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hurt his neck, had fumblitis.

    They took Ben Tate in the 2nd rd last yr to try and find that physically talented back.
     

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