Dare I? NY Knicks back in the playoffs thread

Here is the updated (2 yrs ago) one:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

 

I dont know by who. I dont care enough about the Marlins to actually do such a thing.

It is a team game but its also a game where one player affects the game more so then in football, baseball or hockey. One player can dominate a game if hes great enough and if he is great enough he can even do it with regularity...MJ, Wilt, Shaq, Magic, etc. They could take over a game whenever.

The fact that you believe Amar'e plays center just shows how little you actually watch the Knicks.

I acknowledged the Heat are better right now so I dont know where you get all this anti NY crap from but thats exactly what it is.

Im not the one making excuses here; you are. You dont have any facts backing you up, I do. Fact is YOU have stated Miami is a great defensive team and I agree they are... I acknowledged there is no D in Antoni and the fact is that Bosh's numbers are a product of what he is up against as are Amar'e's. And no, Id never say the same thing about Boozer. Amar'e is a vastly superior offensive player to Boozer, always has been. Amar'e is what you call a finisher and he finishes from in close. He plays a power game in the paint and looks to dominate or get to the line. Boozer and Bosh dont have the same tenacity in close on offense. That is fact.

Link for those stats? Id love to see em.

Melo had to face the Spurs, Mavs, Lakers, and Jazz consistently in his career in Denver..The west was good back then...the east not so much. LePip's numbers came against a MUCH weaker eastern conference.

Melo is not healthy T-rash...hes more Bernard King/George Gervin/Adrian Dantley but probably slightly better. Hes a pure scorer. You and I know how Pat Riley feels about this. Youve said it numerous times how Riley fears him. Theres a reason for that.

Ive displayed anything but arrogance. Ive acknowledged my team has work to do and you act like yours is the second coming of the Celtics Dynasty..newsflash, its not.

Didnt see it then, still dont agree with it.

 

Also, to add...just off the top of my head, LeBron is 4-9 on playoff game winners? Pretty damn good.

 

A little PTSD there, Boik?

 

he plays center. announced as a center, guards other centers. talks like a duck..walks like a duck....

Don't pretend you don't know the M.O. I probably kinow more Knick fans than you do. Good guys..but delusional and tortured souls, itching to unleash unholy obnoxiousness.

You know what is also a fact? Amare averages 7.78 FT's per game for his career. Bosh averages 7.23 , system, system. The differences would be minimal offensively. Bosh had a better season last year in Toronto than Amare is having this year in NY. When players get catered to, their numbers increase.

it's called the game boxscore. it has a play by play feature. MELO was TERRIBLE H2H vs. Lebron in the last 7 minutes.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310227014&period=4

Come on. Come on. really? The differences are not minor. it is not a point here and there. Lebron James outperforms his career numbers in the playoffs. Melo underperforms them. BIG SAMPLE sizes too.

Riley doesn't "fear him" he shares an opinion with me of Melo being the most complete offensive player in the league. You forgot how good McGrady was. Hint: He was better than King, Gervin, and Dantley.

If you acknowledge that they are a championship contender in year one and this is the WORST Heat team for the next 4 to 5 years...then it is EASY to think they will be a dynasty.

We established that. Just making sure you knew I was consistent.

 

LOL, not tryin to be. I really didnt change that title dude.

He is announced as a center but frequently Stoudemire guards the better of the oppositions two bigs because turiaf and formerly Mozgov were the only two players as equipped to do so.

LOL, youre funny. You dont even know the NBA as well as I do. Youve proven that time and time again. If you didnt see the obnoxiousness of Heat fans this summer then dude, you are blind. So its clear Knick fans are not the only obnoxious fans in the NBA. And for the record thats not a new thing...I hated the Heats fans in the 90's as much as the team because they were obnoxious then.

And this year Stoudemire averages 7.78 FT's per game while Bosh is 5.8. Its not just system. Stoudemire led his team to a better record (pre melo) then Bosh did last year with a similar team. Stoudemire has had to face swarms of defenders and consistent double and triple teams all year because his game is much different then Bosh's. Amar'e is a power player inside on offense and Bosh is a perimeter guy who settle for the J more.

Those dont detail all the switches that occur during a game. You would have had to watch the game for that. I know terrible defense when I see it, I watched it for the last decade. Im sure I am much more accustomed then you are to seeing it unfortunately but what Melo played was not bad D. lebron may have hit a few shots but Lebron is going to hit some shots...except at the buzzer of course.

Melo also had Chauncey, Nene, K Mart while lebron deferred to....Mo Williams? Fail.

I didnt forget how good T-Whack was. I never thought he was that good. He had 1-2 good years but the rest of time he was a volume shooter who had a poor shot selection. McGrady was more of a distributor then Melo was. i dont even see how you can make this comparison. They are two entirely different players; didnt even play the same position.

And the player Melo is going to resemble most is pre-injury King because thats his idol, thats the guy he modeled his game after.

We shall see dude.

I didnt say you were making stuff up in regards to that opinion. I just said I didnt agree.

 

Looks like things are cooking up in the NBA. As the West gets weaker, the East gets stronger. Lakers - Bulls is my prediction for the Finals.

 

Great post!!!

 

The Bulls will not make the ECF, let alone the Finals, IMO. They’re still on the outside looking in.

 

Boik..did you really have to tell me that you "know" more about the NBA than me?

 

Amare was a FIRST OPTION getting a ton of touches. Bosh is a THIRD OPTION. YOU KNOW that. There is your difference in FT's this year.

Come on..again.

Melo was terrible. If he is going to beat his chest about asking to guard Lebron the last 7 minutes...then whatever Lebron did in the last 7 minutes is on him. PERIOD.

 

As fpr this BUZZER beater crap....Lebron is 0-2 on Buzzer beaters this year, both were three's.

YES, if you need a three, I do NOT want Lebron taking that shot. I rather have House, Miller, Jones, Bibby, Chalmers, Bosh, before him or Wade.

But if down by 1 or 2, you would have to be crazy to not want Lebron with the ball to try to tie or win.

 

The dirty little secret this year is that LBJ has been clutch down the stretch and Wade has dissapeared in a ton of games. (Maybe he is deferring?)

 

BTW, I wish the Heat had known that Billups' feet had completely betrayed him and was no slower than dirt..on sunday. We should have ran UCLA to get Billups to switch on Wade and torched him.

Did you guys see what Jameer Nelson did to Chauncey Billups last night?

and again..let me repeat it again...put me on that Tony Douglas fan club. he can flat out play. PERIOD.

 

can't have everything...although we try.

 

it is impossible to add Paul, let alone yet another max guy...so I would feel the same way if the Charlotte Bobcats signed 10 aliens from the planet zoltan and went undefeated 10 years in a row.

Now..if you just said...Love and nothing else.....Kevin Love is a true PF. That would mean that a aging Amare will be playing out of position at that time and be much weaker. You want to get me to open my eyes and wonder...sign Howard. (not possible either)

Knicks ran out of money buddy. The big two took all the money. No more max money.

 

hehehehe.

thirst all you want...40 million is a serious paycut and couple that with the very friendly tax structure of NEW York state...well..you know.

Be creative. get good role players and try to finesse the third star somehow in a trade. That is what I would do.

 

BTW...the big TWO with a lot of good role players is enough. Just gotta be good defensively with two main scoring options.

 

Obviously not if you compared Kevin Garnett to Chris Bosh. Bosh can't hold Garnett's jock strap as a defender. Kevin Garnett is one of the best passing bigs of all time, Bosh, not even close. Bosh is soft, KG, not. The comparison is ridiculous, to say the least.

 

So is Carmelo taking less than max? Amare?

 

Did he really compare Bosh's defense to Garnett's defense? LMAO!

 

LOL. I can't believe I miss the part of comparing Garnett and Bosh.

 

You are wrong. But that's okay. KG was called every single thing you just called him before he went to Boston.

Going back to the "soft" label... well just says you really have nothing to add and nothing to debate.

 

Yes

Agreed on Douglas, hes like a better Charlie Ward. I still think he will end up as the starting PG for this team one day. I liked Douglas at FSU and when the Knicks bought that pick from LAL a couple of years ago, I was optimistic that Douglas would mature as a PG. The jury is still out on Toney as a PG but theres no question hes a rotation player on a good team. And he definitely gets after it on defense.

And yes I saw Billups passing out drinks as the on board steward as Nelson just flew by. Douglas or Fields will have to take that assignment in future games vs Chi, Bos, and Orlando

Agreed, its going to have to come via trade. Still, i think Orlando is trending downward (Nelson always hurt, J Rich has shown hes not a great fit thus far, overpriced/overrated Hedont, Agent 0 has shown nothing) so I think Dwight could come available eventually. If something happens with CP3, the KNicks could take Okafor's contract and save New Orleans the money...if they dont get contracted first. The new CBA will tell us a lot. Larry Coon gonna have a lot of work to do

KG was called a lot of things but I never agreed with any of them. he lacked help and STILL elevated his teams play. He found ways to get his team to the playoffs and even as a mid level seed some years. Bosh could never elevate a team like that. KG is a 2x DPOY. Bosh will never be that. KG is a HOFER on the first ballot...not sure Bosh will be that either...hes certainly not close right now. Bosh has a lot of work to do to hold KG's jock.

 

KG is a one time DPOY. Not twice. Unless BB-reference is wrong.

KG registered statistically as a top defender in his 5th season. Bosh in his 5th season also began to register in win share categories at the same level that KG started to.

This year..it's NO MANS LAND for the "Bosh is soft" crowd.

KG...YES is the #1 rated defensive PF on defensive winshare. Chris Bosh is...drumroll......#2. Adjusted for ALL players that are exclusive to one positon. Bosh is #1. But that is not fair. versatility is important, so let's go with all PF's and Centers.

If you take ALL big men (defined as all centers and PF's) in the entire NBA and dumped them into one pool..Kevin Garnett is #2. Chris Bosh is #5


Here is the kicker. Since winshare has been calculated (1981), no player in such a high spot has ever...EVER been denied a spot in any of the top three ALL-NBA defensive teams.

So Chris Bosh is headed to a ALL-NBA defensive team. If done statistically...KG will be 1st team, Bosh 2nd team, and David West will be 3rd team.

 

Basketball-reference is correct on KG..I thought i had heard 2 somewhere; I was wrong.

Still, KG is a 10x all AllDefensive team, 8x on the first team, 2x on the second.
KG is a 4 League leader in DR % and his 29%; Bosh is at a laughable 13.1. Bosh is 69th among active players in the stat.
KG is leading the league in D Rating this year at 94; Bosh is at 102
For all your laughing at Stoudemire hes at 107 in D Rating only a drop behind Bosh, and 12.9% in DR%.

Also, you dont want to get in to an overall win shares argument with Bosh and Amar'e. Bosh has 1x been in the top 10 in win shares, Amar's has two top 3 finishes and 3 in the top 10 overall and being the league leader there once and a highly ranked player there almost every year.

If you think Amar'e's stats are all system generated then why is his FG% down 5 points from last year in Alvin Gentry's offense (which is not Mike D'Antoni's offense)? If Amar'e's offensive numbers are system generated so too would his defensive numbers.

 

grats on getting your stats on LeBatard's show Section

 

I was the one that gave him the stats.

So he took the stats from me.

That email he read was mine.

he reads my stuff on the show from time to time..

 

Calling Amare a system player is not such a bad thing. I was merely pointing out how Bosh would have identical numbers to Amare in NY. You will see how Amare's numbers will begin to suffer as Melo gets more comfortable. and that is just dealing with ONE usage guy. Bosh deals with TWO.

If you just want to compare numbers...Bosh is right there with Amare.

That is not what I was talking about. I was pointing out that Chris Bosh is headed to a ALL-NBA defensive nod, and how that will cramp the style of the parrots in the "Chris Bosh is soft" cult.

 

Adding more than you are, which all you're trying to do is insult me. But that's just typical of people on the internet. Insult people when you've been proven wrong. Bosh can't pass. KG is one of the best passing bigs of all time. Kevin Garnett has always been one hell of a defender, Bosh, bad defender. Garnett has never been considered soft, unlike Bosh, who's considered soft for good reason. But you go ahead and keep insulting me instead of telling me how I'm wrong.

 

I am not insulting you. I am disagreeing with you. I guess it offends you that somebody dares to disagree with you. I am tired of offering examples already and looking up stats for them to be ignored.

I have no interest in debating anything with somebody that just makes an absurd statement, ("Bosh is a bad defender") and then is offended that somebody disagrees with him.

Nice strawman argument BTW. There might not be a non-celtic fan on this board that has praised KG more than me. Ask Boik. We had a long debate about him last year.

Change your attitude if you want to debate anything with me.

 

No need to debate anything. The KG to Bosh comparison is ridiculous. KG is a 10 time NBA Defensive 1st/2nd teamer and former defensive player of the year, Bosh is a bad individual defender, who's defense looks better in the Heat's system in the same way Pierce and Ray Allen have with Thibodeu's system, and there's many more examples of it. Let's not confuse being a good individual defender with being a good team defender. Good bigs, especially PF's have consistently put up 20+ against the Heat. So he might look better defensively thanks to the system, but no Heat fan wants to see Bosh isolated in the post with Pau Gasol or another good big.

Not to mention the fact that Garnett is one of the best passing bigs of all time. When Bosh averages 5+ APG 6 times in his career, then you can start making comparisons to Kevin Garnett. When Bosh gets 16 triple doubles, then you can start making the comparisons to Kevin Garnett. Bosh certainly isn't the rebounder that KG was in his prime either.

 

I missed it. What stats, and what was Stugotz’s reaction to what was assuredly bad news for him?

 

What I bolded, is why this debate is futile. You have your mind set, and you could care less about facts.

BTW, Bosh already matched up with Pau Gasol this year.

Bosh 11-17, 24 points, 13 rebounds, 1 stl. 1 blk.

Gasol 8-17, 17 points, 8 rebounds, 0 stl. 0 blk.

PF's vs. the Heat have outperformed their season averages vs. the Heat exactly...HOW MANY TIMES? I know the answer...but I want you to look it up this time. (Hint: Heat is #2 in the league defensively vs. opposing PF's., FG%)