Nice spin! Of course you're done. I was wrong on a YEAR (I said 2008 when it was 2006) and you weren't even contesting that part. You were contesting all the information I gave about the CBA. And you were 100% WRONG.
I thought you "were done"? lol Two Tacos: The CBA agreed to was to extend two more years unless one side opted out, the owners opted out thus ending the current CBA two years earlier than agreed on. You were wrong about the underlined part. However, and because I'm honest, I admit that I did mix up a few things you wrote with a few things Dupree wrote. He's been wrong about more things than you about this CBA.
How is that wrong? The owners opted out in 2008 and ended the CBA after the 2010 season instead of the 2012, two years earlier than what was negotiated. I don’t see any part of my statement that is not correct. The CBA would have continued for two more years if the owners had taken no action.
No....A public relations degree is not the same as a medical degree. You're seeing the word "education" as just a title and not giving it it's due credit.
Players. the owners are trying to screw the players, hoping the "union" will cave like it usually does. I only support the owners in one aspect, the rookie wage scale.
I was wrong, I knew I read it somewhere last year, and I didnt look it up, I just said a number....it is actually 15% which is still fantastic, considering hes 308 pounds.
Tell me when they'd need it in their profession. Kind've like a science major taking broadcasting, or doubles tennis. Its pointless to the major, so it's not required. Not enough credit hours in a 4 year period of time.
Do you know what Calc 2 is? I'm guessing not. I wouldn't need it unless I was an engineer or Physicist. I didn't go as far to tell you my major; I'm dual majoring in Marine Science and Geology. There's no reason for Calc 2 for me... I'm taking a lot of classes that are demanding that I'll never need. I won't need Genetics either, but that too was a requirement. It's the renaissance method of education--You take core classes required for your major, and then, a bunch of required classes vaguely associated with your major and then a bunch of other unrelated electives. For science majors, that means, you're taking the hardest core classes and the hardest base requirements. Taking post-secondary classes is an education, but not all majors are equal. I do more work for my major than any current Miami Dolphin did for theirs and I'll make less when it's all said and done. Even if what I do is more meaningful to the world and even if I'm the very best in the world at what I'll do. Even though I'll be in school for another 4 years doing research and post-grad work after I get my degree. Real fair. That is not ridiculous? I'm not sure if you are, have been or are planning on going to college, but all of these majors you see like liberal arts and sports management are a bunch of nonsense. Especially the former. The hardest classes you might have to take are elementary algebra or an english composition class.
Sounds like you should've hit the gym instead of the books......Life isnt fair, get over it. Sounds like your angry at these football players taking advantage of an inflated profession that pays big bucks. Any human would do it if they had the gifts from god to make it. Don't blame them. They are getting rich. And they don't have to go to school for 8 years to do it. Sounds like THEY are the smart ones.
1) [video=youtube;eK3k-LLnZ7k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK3k-LLnZ7k[/video] 2) It just makes them bad people. If they can sit back on all of their millions in 50 years from now and feel good about it, that just makes them bad people. Period. They made no difference and no contributions to the world. I'll have done what I wanted to do and made a difference doing it. I'll make enough to live happily and I'm cool with that. Would I like more money? Absolutely--everyone would. But then again, I could rob a bank if all I wanted was more money. 3) What do you do? All my cards are on the table; you know my bias. What's your story? Where are you coming from?
Funny you mentioned banks and then asked me what I do: I am 24 years old, played football my entire life. Played both ways in highschool, Junior year at linebacker I finished with 112 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 ints, and was captain.....4 year letterman in HS. Senior year I tore my pcl, hurrican jean and francis ruined 3 games of a 10 game season, I lost most fullrides I had offered from Illinois, Truman State, Troy, FAU and Southern Illinois. I instead had to go to a smaller school (division 2, still scholarship) to wingate university. So i packed up from south florida and moved to NC. Was majoring in something easy (like you mentioned most do) in communications, but fell in love with my psych class. I changed majors, I loved the process of how/why people think like they do. I blew my knee out (again) lost scholarship and left Wingate, Went back down to Florida, couldnt afford college, got my broadcasting certificate from Connecticut School of Broadcasting, got into sports radio, got my girlfriend preggo, moved back to NC and got a job as a bank teller. Kicked ***, worked my way up, and now I am a licensed financial Specialist making about 60k a year, with unlimited incentive potential. I will be going back to school soon, an adult degree program so I can still work fulltime and see my 3 year old, I want to get a BS in Psych, and maybe teach highschool and coach football. Not sure. And let me say also, I appreciate debating with you, and in no way am I trying to go at you personally, hope you dont think as much. -chris
Thanks, it was tough going through the injuries, everytime you think your on top and it gets ripped from you. Its funny, I got my knee blown out from my own teammate, some 3rd string safety trying to blow up the team captain while i was playing fullback, he throws a shoulder into my planted knee....BOOM. he got kicked off the team. Ill never forget talking to Mack Brown (Texas) on the phone and he said "well, cant getcha that scholarship like we hoped Chris. But you can walk on, play some special teams, and by junior/senior year be a backup or starter" I couldnt afford to go there without scholarship, and sadly (depressingly) they won a NC the next season (my would be freshman year) So I would have had a NC ring (sigh) but, I got my highlight tape haha. I can show my son, and help him grow with my experiences.
Chris, That is AWESOME. So having experienced it first hand, you know what I'm talking about. I don't believe that there are any inherently stupid people out there; if you put your mind to things and try hard, you can achieve whatever you'd like. The way the "system," if you will, works, ruins people. You're giving kids who barely made it out of highschool (NOT saying you did, but such is the case for a lot of players) a FULL scholarship at prestigious universities and then either fail to educate them, or in your case, kick them to the curb if something impairs their playing ability. They make these kids 100% reliant on football and it's a terrible thing all around. The lucky ones hit it big. For the other 99%, they're screwed. They never got properly educated. They never had to really work in their life. They have no principles or concepts from college. S.O.L. And then you have a couple thousand in the NFL reaping all the benefits. It's disgusting. What I still don't get is, that after getting your scholarship taken away, how are you not agreeing with me? That is the perfect example of what pisses me off about these types of situations. Maybe it's political and we'll never agree... I don't know. I'm a republican too, so I believe in all of this capitalism... my problem is that these men aren't worth 1% of what they get paid (I mean that quite literally) and the way they get there is corrupt. -Matt
I hate the system for taking my scholarship away. Not the players. I've seen it first hand. In Pahokee and Belle Glade, you either get out by playing sports, or you don't get out. Period. And I agree, I got to school, excited about both equally (school and football) I went to a small division 2 school, with less undergraduates then I had in my SENIOR GRADUATING CLASS in South Florida.....and still I saw the dirty work, the steroids, the star athletes getting the passing grade in statistics class eventhough they never showed up. It's a ****ed up situation. But my thing is, these kids don't know any better. The school is getting away with it. And if its this bad in a division 2 school in the SAC conference with 1200 kids, how bad is it at Texas, florida, Auburn, Michigan, Cal?! Dont hate the player. Hate the game. Is very cliche, but suitable here. The players are just going with the flow. The schools, the NCAA, the alumnis, the deans turning the other cheek.....they should get the blame. Not the kids.
Which finalllllllllllllllly brings me back to the point of my pro-owner stance lol The system can only be fixed from the top-down.
I read your post, and you said you couldn't afford college, so you didn't have to go through the sleepless nights studying all the medical terminology and all the medications while working and caring for your family. That's my point. You seem to generalize the term education down to a piece of paper. So according to your logic, a medical doctor with a medical degree and a football player with a liberal arts degree are both considered "educated" because they both have degrees? Look bro, I wish you nothing but the best and I hope you get that BS in Psychology, but for now, I think this is a case of "you dont know because you haven't been through it"......
Something about this debate that really has left a bad taste in my mouth toward the players is their unwillingness to negotiate with the owners unless the books are opened for them to scrutinize. They want to know what the owners salary is and if he has family members working in the organization, etc....... What if the owners made the same request of the players? What if the owners want to know how players are spending their money so they can determine if the money is being spent foolishly or not. What if the owners think its excessive for players to own several cars, multiple houses, bodyguards, boob jobs for the wives, jewelry, etc..... In essence what the players are saying to the owners is that they want to review how much money the owners are making and then the union will determine if they think its excessive or not and by how much, or they are unwilling to negotiate. That is a pretty arrogant position to take. What I think the courts should do at this point is appoint an independent auditor to review the collective revenue generated, and not any individual club revenues. Some teams have smaller markets then others and its just too messy to go into each club individually in terms of revenues. The auditor should have the ability to look at the expenditures of each team though in order to verify that they are not cooking the books. As long as everything looks like its within the margin of where it should be, the auditor can then say the NFL collects "X" amount of dollars and it costs owners "Y" amount of dollars to operate. Keep the audit confidential so nobody knows which teams are making more then others. 10 years of records seems excessive and 5 years is probably more appropriate to get an accurate feel on how the economic trend is impacting the franchises. I say this not because I think the owners should have to open their books but because at this point we have a standoff that is not going to be resolved without court intervention. The courts should try to accommodate both sides with some type of compromise, like maybe the one I just suggested. A confidential and independent audit preserves the owners right to privacy and gives the union an unbias financial report on the state of the teams. IMO that would get us past this sticking point and onto whatever the next one will be in these negotiations. Just out of curiosity about all of you. Would any of you, irregardless of what side you fall on, object to what I just suggested, or do you think that it would be a fair compromise to get these negotiations moving along. My opinion is if the courts do not find a way to force the two sides to negotiate a deal then the courts will be forced to broker the deal and both sides will be legally forced to accept it or dissolve the NFL and everybody can go find new jobs. What are your thoughts?
The players have said they would agree to a third party doing the audit of owner's books but, still want 10 years.
Let's muddy the water even further. As we all know, there are some teams who get a ton of money from local governments to build and/or renovate the stadiums but, not all teams have that. How does that factor into expenses? Is stadium upkeep a part of owner's expense they are asking players to compensate for? I have no idea but, it is a good question.
The argument wasn't if it was a "good" education, or the best education. The fact is, the person with a liberal arts degree, will get a job over me without one at all, because he has an education, and I don't. So he has an education.
How many boob jobs for players wives should owners be responsible to pay for? How much is what the owners asking for going to cut into the players lifestyles and do they deserve the lifestyle that is being afforded to them, since we are "muddying the waters". Lets see all their personal financial records for the past 10 years so we can pass judgment their wealth. If they want to be treated as "partners" then they should be willing to comply to the same requests they are making of the owners, or is this a 1-way street?
I still do not see the link between having an education and playing football? It is not a job requirement to be a graduate to play football in the NFL.
The original statement someone said was most college football players arent getting an education because its "only liberal arts" or "only communications" and my argument is........regardless if its a "crap major" its still AN EDUCATION.
I would like to agree but, have seen many struggling to speak the English language. I have to believe that everyone here would agree that there are many with no interest in any type of education.
I do not see it as that big of a difference. The players are not satisfied seeing bottom line numbers. They want every team to open its books to them so they can go line by line to scrutinize how owners are using the money they get, and then if they want to decide if the money is being spent correctly or not. Then they will be gracious enough to dictate how much of a pay cut they are willing to take. The players not only want their money grunted but they also want to dictate how much. The owners were not given any type of guarantee when they bought the team and if the NFL folded tomorrow they would be out hundreds of millions of dollars. The players would lose nothing more then a job. Theres a big difference.
