The dream continues....Dolphins to work out Tyrod Taylor..

Pat White 2.0

 

One man's dream is another man's nightmare. lol.

 

Much bigger than White.... and he doesn't have baseball pulling at the strings.

 

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to ding McCoy if he gets no help.

Played the position differently than McCoy, though. Wallace is closer to Taylor than McCoy is.

 

I mean this with the utmost respect......... Walterfootball is nothing special, so I'd recommend not giving them more credit than they deserve.

I stopped typing on their forum a couple years ago b/c Matt McGuire has/had his head up his arse and thinks he knows more than he truly does. Some of the guys here are just as, if not more, insightful than Walt & Matt are. They run a good site and market themselves well, but don't buy into their castle thinking a king lives there. lol.

 

You know "him" was referring to Mallett or Gabbert, right?

I know it's not the best, but as far as free services go, it's up there... it may be the best, actually.

I'm not into paying for ESPN Insider, because I have self-worth. It's not like reading any of that would change what happens on gameday, anyway, it's just a man's version of TMZ.

 

I didn't ding McCoy once. Go back, re-read to this point, do it once more and get back to me.

Peyton Manning is a better football player than Eli Manning.

Where in that statement do I even imply that Eli Manning is not a good football player? Same principle.

As for Taylor being more like Seneca, yes. I did not dispute that either. The fact is, though, that Taylor has better everything than Seneca did coming into the league.

 

Yup. IIRC Walt and Matt are in their 20's and don't comprehend all the facets of what makes a great player. My impression was that they underestimated the mental aspect of the game (or don't fully understand how to evaluate it) and overestimated the talent/measurables side like you alluded to.

They had a mock with Coye Francies going in the first round (around this time of year), and that was the icing on the cake for me as far as player assessment goes. Their site has entertainment value, and I don't think they're frauds or anything, but they still have a ways to go to be reputable talent assessors IMO.

 

Quoting Walter Football’s “this guy sucks” evaluation of him isn’t a ding? The entire point of your argument is that Taylor is basically equivalent to McCoy, and you think it’s a joke that Taylor is projected to be drafted lower than McCoy.

But not better than McCoy. Which makes this “Taylor will be better than McCoy in Daboll’s offense” thing an exercise in futility, because McCoy was actually pretty good because of his own talent, not because Daboll somehow worked a miracle with an inferior QB.

We would not be having this conversation if you didn’t feel the need to throw McCoy under the bus to explain your positive projection of Tyrod Taylor as a QB in Daboll’s system.

 

Ooooops. thought you were referring to Mallett & Newton.

I agree, it is a good free site........ so long as you take it with a grain of salt. They can definitely serve as a good starting point to help get a feel for the players.

 

Lol ok, listen here, Mister Pokemon or whatever your avatar is. This is precisely why I told you to go back and read twice.

My example from Walter was to prove to you that many draftniks were not high on McCoy. I even said multiple times that I felt he was an elite college player and a successful NFL quarterback!

Further, my argument is based on the fact that Taylor and McCoy are undersized and mobile. If those are the only two variables that you look at then sure, I said they're the exact same thing. Let me set it straight now, though, I think Taylor is an all-around better player and I think his speed gives him an edge over McCoy. So much so that he will be the next dual-threat QB at the NFL-level. McCoy is not that. McCoy is a better (more accurate, but slower) Troy Smith. I think Taylor can be a slightly lesser version of Michael Vick, which I think is still enough to get us a superbowl.

Next, I do concede in your assessment of my posts that I believe McCoy is inferior to Taylor. That said, it's only logical that I think:

Taylor is better than McCoy

Daboll worked well with McCoy

Therefore, Daboll will work better with Taylor

(Pause for SAT flashbacks....)

Lastly, correction: we wouldn't be having this conversation if you didn't misinterpret darn near everything I said.

 

Well, whichever first round QBs fall. Tough to tell who it will be, but one of them will. Could be Mallett. Could be Locker. Could be Newton. Whoever. It just seems like Newton is going either 1 or 4.

I got the idea that you thought that I wanted to trade up into the second to draft Taylor lol....

While that very well could look smart twenty years from now, there's no sense in overpaying--especially on a boom/bust like him.

 

Tyrod Taylor is easily worth a 6th IMO. If I had to bet on it, he's a kid who won't run for the hills the day he realizes he isn't an NFL QB <if that ends up being the case>.

Tyrod represents everything that we wanted but didn't get from Pat IMO---- a kid who can make plays in the WC while he's developing, but without looking like 5 toothpicks glued together waiting to be knocked out by a corner back.

Our trigger man, Ronnie, is probably gone, and Ireland wants playmakers. The last I checked, Tyrod is a playmaker, one who is MUCH more equipped to be toting the ball on an NFL field than White.

Psychologically speaking, it's possible that Ireland might want to draft Tyrod as a form of redemption for the White pick. Just sayin.

 

You in post #24: “I remember some saying McCoy could go in the mid to late first…”

I’m not begrudging you your opinion, just wondering why you feel the need to knock McCoy to promote Taylor. The two are totally unrelated.

It’s logical only in the sense that “if A = B, and B = C, therefore A = C”. You fail to consider, regardless of who is better between Taylor and McCoy, that McCoy potentially not being as good as Taylor does not automatically mean that he is bad, or that Daboll had to somehow compensate for him. You brought up the Eli/Peyton Manning example, but you’re not applying it to your own case. It is entirely possible (and in fact true, IMO) that McCoy functioned well because of his own talent, not because Daboll needed to cover for or make things easier on McCoy. This is completely separate from whether or not Taylor would be better in the same system. So again, why throw McCoy under the bus to promote Taylor? “Taylor is better than McCoy, therefore Taylor will be better in Daboll’s system than McCoy” is not exactly a completely thought out hypothesis either. Entirely possible that Taylor would struggle in Daboll’s system but thrive in, say, Tom Moore’s system, or the classic WCO, or under Josh McDaniels.

You said what you said. Your argument changed halfway through the thread. You started out knocking McCoy as being overhyped and not as good as Taylor, then you shifted gears and started to concede some points on McCoy without really addressing why you needed to bring up McCoy to promote Taylor in the first place. Two totally separate QBs, two totally separate instances, both completely unrelated.

You can have the last word if you want, I’m done.

By the way, my avatar is awesome, and has absolutely nothing to do with Pokemon, thank you very much.

 

Agreed on all of this. Taylor is worth a 6th round pick easily, and is more of an ideal Wildcat QB than Pat White ever was. The question is whether we even use the Wildcat anymore, now that we’ve changed OCs.

 

Actually I thought you were saying that you hoped Mallett or Locker fell to the 2nd round so that we could take one of them. I've liked Taylor all year. If he wants to be a QB only, then I doubt he goes before the 6th. If he says that he'll play WCQB while he develops, then I could see 5th, maybe 4th. I don't want him unless he's willing to play WCQB, and I wouldn't use higher than a 5th b/c we can get a possible starter with our 4th.

 

I don't see why not. Daboll has more experience running it the way we'd be running it with Taylor than Henning would. What he did with Cribbs was more complex IIRC than anything Ronnie ran. Henning crapped the bed with Pat, but that doesn't mean Daboll will do the same with Tyrod..... so success is plausible IMO.

Cribbs stated last season that the Browns could make it through an entire game running nothing but the Wildcat. I'm all for Daboll designing some packages for Tyrod. I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll isn't begging Ireland to draft him for this very purpose since Taylor represents one of many tools Brian could use to help jumpstart the offense or at least give it a little nudge here and there.

I hated sending Henne to the bench in lieu of the WC last year b/c it seemed more demoralizing than anything IMO, but if Tyrod subbed in and picked up some occasional chunk yards, then I don't see it doing anything but good; nor would I perceive it affecting Henne's psyche if he sees the plays are actually productive.

 

First quote is my not understanding how people felt McCoy was this amazing prospect, yet I haven't once seen Tyrod mocked before the 5th. I believe Tyrod is a better prospect than McCoy was (for the 5th time), so this does not make sense.

I'm not knocking McCoy. Again, for the 5th time.

Didn't say McCoy was bad (6!), nor did I say Daboll had to compensate. I said he worked with him and he has shown enough effectiveness in small, mobile QBs (both McCoy and Wallace last year) that I'd feel confident he'd make Tyrod a winner.

You also misinterpreted the Peyton/Eli example. Sorry that didn't work out for you.

The conclusion I've come to is that you can't handle multi-variable discussions. Let me try short statements and try letting you piece them together.

I feel Tyrod is better than Colt. (Every one of my posts)
Tyrod and Colt are both small and mobile, but Tyrod is much faster. (Every one of my posts)
This skillset gives Tyrod a unique advantage in comparison between the two. (Vick v Smith)
Daboll has worked with undersized QBs and succeeded. (Every one of my posts)
The notion that Colt is a better prospect than Tyrod has no merit. (Colt mocked in 1st, Tyrod in 5th)
As is the notion that undersized QBs will not succeed. (Walterfootball bashing)

 

I wouldn’t say that the Cribbscat was ultimately more effective than the Wildcat, though. That’s my hangup, that Daboll may have given it a shot in Cleveland to spark the offense, saw that it didn’t really work, and wants to move away from it. That would jive with his “Cleveland is in the past” statements at his introductory presser.

I do like Taylor as a guy who can take a handoff on a jet sweet and throw a pass, though. There’s a lot of creativity there.

I think Daboll is begging Ireland to draft a QB period.

 

I don't think it was necessarily more "effective" either...... but with Marshall on the field to draw attention (along with one or even 2 more weapons), it could be more dangerous with Tyrod than Ronnie (or Tyrod than Cribbs), and IMO we wouldn't have to run it as often to achieve results. It seems like we previously used the WC as a crutch, where as with Tyrod, it could be an accept piece.

Cribbs WAS the Browns' WC offense. How would teams react when they have to defend both Tyrod AND Marshall?

I'd rather see that than Ricky tossing a drive killing INT. lol. If Tyrod is open to versatility <despite it probably delaying his QB development>, the creative aspect would have me excited.

lol. touche'

 

If we drafted one of the playmaking TEs, Greg Little, and Ryan Williams, we would have some serious athletic, playmaking WC talent on the field to f*** with a DC's head. Plus Williams and Tyrod are already acquainted. lol.

 

That would be a “prove it” scenario for NFL DCs. Miami more or less exclusively uses the Wildcat as a rushing formation. Taylor would have to consistently hook up with Marshall to force that scenario… and for a rookie QB to challenge coverage with a collapsing pocket and a corner blitz breathing down his neck is a tough call.

Same. Just doesn’t seem like something that will ever leave the drawing board, though.

 

Although I wouldn't mind Tyrod in a backup role...we need a legit NFL Pro ready QB, that which he is definitely not. We'd basically be getting a smaller but more shifty Thigpen, and since we already have a Thigpen on our roster, on top of the whole White debacle, I just don't see us drafting Taylor. Quite honestly I'd like to take a gamble on Ponder later on. Drafting Ryan Williams & Christian Ponder would be my ultimate wish list. Other than that I would not take a QB in the 1st, not thrilled with Newton, Gabbert, or Mallett from the little I have seen of each.

 

Thigpen is not on our roster. He’s a free agent. We offered him a 2nd round RFA tender because there’s no CBA, and he did not sign the tender in time. He wants to start somewhere.

Chad Henne is the only quarterback on our roster. And he only has one year left on his contract.

 

Tom Brandstater is on the roster.

 

Like I said, Chad Henne is the only quarterback on the roster.

 

...in that case, wth sign him up...either as a 6-7th rounder or UDFA