What Did Everyone Think Of Henne, LAST YEAR?

Dolphin fans don't give players time to develop everybody knows that. You have to be an instant Pro Bowler or you suck. Take Sean Smith the fanbase hates this guy. Why because he is learning and developing. It has to be now or never. Impatient fans who don't understand the process is the majority of Dolphin fans.

 

Again, tell that to Manning.

And please stop with the incessant straw arguments. They're getting ridiculous. I never said "stop talking bad about Henne b/c it makes you look foolish", but nice try.

I said your comment makes you look foolish....... the one that alludes to the idea that a QB should be able to do it all by himself---- without a good defense (which is what this regime emphasizes), without quality special teams (which every contender needs), without a healthy line Oline (which a QB needs for protection), without a solid ground game (which this regime prioritized), without WR/TE depth (which a QB needs), without a good OC (which an entire offense needs), without a quality outlet back (which all QBs can benefit from-- ask Brady & Flacco), and without a healthy knee (which a QB needs for accurate throwing)...... and that's not even accounting for Sparano's fistpump for FG mentality, stressing Henne to be careful and dont make mistakes...... and then when things get tough, telling him to open it up despite NOT giving him an offense conducive to such.



You're trying to make this team into what YOU want it to be rather than what this regime wanted it to be. This regime tried to build a team around defense and a strong ground game, so your expectations of a young QB all of a sudden being able to carry a team on his shoulders is preposterous. We weren't built for that. If we were, we would've had more receiver depth, had a true vertical threat or kept Ginn, a #2 TE, and a decent outlet back.

You cant expect Henne to succeed in that situation last year b/c we're not the Colts with a team built up around the QB, giving him every opportunity to succeed as possible.

What you're insinuating is like owning a McDonalds....... and then when it has problems, suddenly trying to covert it into a Pizza Hut with immediate success. If you want a successful pro-bowl caliber QB, then you damn well better create an environment that can allow one to properly develop & prosper.

Peyton is one of the best that ever lived. He became such b/c Indy built up a team around him and provide him weapon after weapon over the years to allow him to play to his potential. They didn't say "We have Manning so we don't need talent or an offense paired to him b/c Peyton will make everyone around him look like a Pro-Bowler". That's absurd. They spent 1st round pick after 1st round pick on offensive skilled players for him..... where as we've done nothing over the past 3 years to pair this offense to Henne's game.

But of course your mind is already made up on Henne so you'll end up disregarding all of this.

 

What you fail to realize is that nobody expected Henne to do it all by himself. He didn't have to win a Super Bowl with that team. He didn't even have to win a playoff game. Just not piss away games by throwing awful interceptions. Having a QBR under 40 against the Cleveland Browns is awful, regardless of your supporting cast. Making Rob Ninkovich look like a pro bowler is not acceptable, regardless of how bad your team is. Going 5-18 is awful, regardless of the team that surrounds you. Maintaining eye level when the pocket breaks isn't too much to ask of a QB, yet Henne has failed to make any progress doing it.

Whatever argument can and will be made supporting Henne can also be made to support Jason Campbell. How many people here would be happy with Jason Campbell as our QB???

 

And was Henne the only player that dropped off from 2009? How did our running game do? Playcalling? O-Line?

Why is it that everyone gets a pass but Henne? You called Todd "ignorant" for sticking by Henne, being objective, using tangible evidence to back up his opinions, and saying that most QB's need a better supporting cast to play well. Does that make sense to you?

 

This is Sparano, Tuna, Ireland, and Henning's fault for lacking proper vision regarding our offense's direction and not being able to succeed in what they set out to accomplish.

They wanted a possession-based, smash mouth ground game, and it didn't work.

They tried to compensate by using a temporary gimmick as a crutch, which solved nothing and further delayed our ability to find an actual solution.

They brought in slow possession receivers for this wanna-be "run oriented" offense.
They drafted and signed possession type blocking TEs for this wanna-be "run oriented" offense.
They paid zero attention to bringing in any young, explosive, game-changing COP backs b/c of their wanna-be smash mouth offense.
They build the offense around this wanna-be ground game combined with a possession-type, game-managing QB b/c they "didn't want their QB doing anything to cost them a game" which Sparano & Henning had stated numerous times.
In doing the above, for 3 years they ignored speed & playmakers at every position outside of signing Marshall...... and they never changed the playbook to fit Henne's needs, rather instead forcing Chad to run an offense suited for Penny.


Then all of a sudden when this whole concept turns to s***, Sparano tells Henne to stop doing what they've been training him to do for the past 2.5 years and to instead open it up despite never giving him the proper resources or necessary practice time doing so. How the **** can any QB open it up or air it out with the slowest group or WRs in the NFL, a slow TE, slow RBs, no COP back, and practice squad guys as your back up TE and WRs who are forced into starting roles?

Not even Manning could've made chicken salad from this chicken ****.

 

Manning would still make the team better.

 

By one or two more wins? lol....

And Manning may be the best QB EVER.

Yeah, your point is valid.

 

No, by making the receivers, runningbacks, offensive line, tight end and offensive coordinator look better.

manning is a quarterback that allows the players on his team to excell. Even the crappy Blair White looked really good at times with peyton Manning.

Chad Henne did not.

 

Ok, I surrender. You're just a better fan than anyone on this board. You don't get mad at labor situations and support every player through good and bad times. We all know you're a better fan than us, so you can stop trying so hard to prove it now.

 

I did no such thing. I said his ARGUMENT, to me, seemed just as ignorant as he said another poster's argument looked. There is a middle ground with Henne. I don't think we should give up on him, but I also don't think we should assume he can be a starting NFL QB based on his performance last season. He should still get a chance, but he has to earn it. You know, the same way every professional athlete has to earn a starting position in just about any team sport.

 

It's always like this when talking QBs. I think a large part of it is frustration. We've been talking about QBs ever since Marino retired. That fact that a guy named Jay Fiedler and an injury plagued Chad Pennington are the best guys we've seen since then will create frustration. But as long as I've been visiting Dolphins boards there are always those who will defend the incumbent QB to a fault even if he's as bad as John Beck or hate a guy with a passion even if he's as effective as Pennington. It will always be this way until we find our franchise QB. Maybe Chad Henne can still be that guy, but it would be foolish for this FO to assume that based on last season.

 

That's exactly what some people are saying.

"Pissing away games by throwing awful INTs"? I don't like INTs as much as anyone else, but you and I both know that, at the NFL level, there's much more to it than meets the eye. Proper timing, established rapport, and manageable situations mean everything.


There was so much inconsistency combined with a lack of help from the ground game that it's not even funny. We had:

-coaches flip-flopping what they wanted from Henne.
-an injured Oline shuffling all year.
-Henne's knee injury, which is not conducive for accuracy consistency.
-multiple injuries to our starting outside WRs, forcing shuffling around, which is not conducive to proper timing and chemistry.
-practice squad WRs acting as our #2, #3, #4, and #5, which is definitely NOT good for timing and chemistry.
-a shuffling of practice squad guys at #2 TE and a practice squad guy as our #1 during the last game.
-an incompetent OC calling play action after play action so that his young QB has even less time to see plays develop while on a bum knee with poor Oline protection and inconsistency at WR & TE.
-a crappy ground game causing too many 2nd and 3rd and longs with WRs & TEs not suited for such b/c they're possession guys who are too damn slow and take too long to get open while our injured Oline is not blocking well (which was the case in the season's 2nd half).

How can any QB have proper timing & rapport with all the above transpiring? If that's not bad enough, he then leads the league with the LEAST amount of dropped INTs IIRC.

When Manning's offense fell apart, he fell apart for 5 games. When our offense fell apart, Henne fell apart, too. It wasn't like he was bad all year. Things didn't spiral downward until all the injuries piled up (Chad's included), players were shuffled around, and horrible practice squad guys were brought in.

I know better than to judge a QB based on this crap we called a season. At no point was there a chance for any chemistry & rapport to develop..... and if HOF QB like Manning needs it, then I'd expect even less from a young one still developing.

As far as I'm concerned, the season was an entire wash, and we'll need yet one more season to see what Chad can or can't do b/c there were entirely too many variables in last year's experiment to lead to an accurate conclusion.

 

Blind faith in a guy who hasn't proven he can be a starter in the NFL makes one look ignorant, IMHO.

You wrote that immediately after you quoted him. Seems to me like you did call him ignorant.

Anyhow, I don't think Henne played to his potential last season. Not even close. That's why I don't want to give up on the guy. The only thing worse that giving him and one more year and his not exceeding would be to not give him one more year and watching him succeed someplace else.

 

Saying someone looks ignorant and calling someone ignorant are two completely different things. And stop trying to paint me the villain here. I was responding to this quote -

I don't think Todd was calling the person he was quoting ignorant, and I wasn't calling him ignorant.

 

Definitely. I'd be an idiot to think that he wouldn't....... but at the same time, he'd have a tough time being successful over an 8 game stretch with what we endured the 2nd half of the year.

 

I dont think protection was a major problem for Henne, being protected on your blindside by the premiere left tackle in the game for three years is not something we can use for an excuse with henne.

 

Exactly.

 

Which huddle? There were so many variations this year, so I'd like to be clear on exactly which one was lost.

 

You could use the same arguments to defend Jason Campbell, or Alex Smith, or Ryan Fitzpatrick, or plenty of other QBs who aren't good.

 

He might have made them look a little better, but they certainly did NOT make Peyton look better...... and that's the point here. A QB can only be as good as the guys around him (including rapport & chemistry--which takes time) and the system he's in.

Our system in no way shape or form would allow Manning an opportunity to thrive. It might be the most unfriendly QB environment in the NFL. That's not something to be understated.

 

He might. I put Henne's poor play as part of what we endured the 2nd half of the year.

I keep on reading your posts and to make Henne not look crappy you really have to exagerrate and comment on situations you have no idea if they are true.

I hope he can improve. He might have a chance next season. I just went from having hope after his first year of being a starter to completely losing hope his second year.

 

That's a very good point. There are plenty of QBs out there that had better seasons than Chad Henne that we as Dolphin fans would want no part of being the starting QB of this team. Yet Henne gets a pass because he's the incumbent QB. The loyalty is admirable, but not practical. That's why the front office is most likely spending the majority of this offseason researching, and (hopefully) eventually acquiring competition / a potential replacement for Chad Henne. Hopefully they still give Chad a fair shot to earn the starting gig. Since their jobs will depend on starting the best guy, I'm sure they will.

 

That isn't the point. The quarterback can still make the team better even when everything is going crap. Look at Archie Manning. Played on horrible teams, still looked like a good quarterback.

Plus our system wouldn't have to be the way it is because Manning does not hold back what a team can do with an offense. Plus I have a hard time believing it is the most unfriendly QB environment when Jake Delhomme succeeded in that offense. Jake Delhomme is a pretty crappy quarterback.

 

This is very true..... but at the same time we both know that development takes time and consistency around a guy. Who knows how Alex Smith might've turned out if he were in the right environment with a decent Oline and a solid receiving cast. Many a talented QBs have been ruined by being placed in a situation that virtually sets them up for failure. That's exactly what happened to us last year. For Chad to not actually regress based on our offensive catastrophe is actually astonishing to me.

If there weren't so many problems surrounding our offense and we actually cared about Chad's growth since 2008 rather than him "not making mistakes", it's plausible that Henne might have had more conscious time to focus on improving his weaknesses or developing his strengths. I don't see how he had a chance to do either. He's virtually the same guy that we drafted b/c we've failed to properly develop him IMO.

 

Honestly, it was the team as a whole that looked bad not just Henne. There were a lot of contributing factors why the team did poorly, Henne included, but to just pass all the blame to Henne is stupid, its the team as a whole that lost these games not just Henne.

 

Agreed, putting all of the blame on Henne is stupid.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming him. I don't think he's a good QB, but even if he played well, we still wouldn't have won a Super Bowl. That doesn't mean I will give him a pass for being bad. He was bad, our RBs were bad. Our run blocking was bad. Our 2nd TE was bad. That doesn't mean I'm going to say Ronnie Brown should be re-signed because the OL blocked poorly. The OL blocked poorly and Ronnie Brown ran poorly. There doesn't need to be one person taking all the blame. But Henne is going to get the most blame, because he plays the most important position. The QB position can impact the game a lot more than any other.

 

just watched the NFN replay of the Jets game in Miami last year. I know I bash Henne but have to admit, he played on dam good football game against the Jets. Crap, we even overcame the blocked punt and it was a ball game up until Braylon Edwards caught that pass and ran most of the field for a TD. We played right up until our last play of the game and even then, Henne was not awful with that last interception. Who knows, maybe the kid will be something if given a chance. Also took long hard looks at the wilcat plays we ran. Only one of them was in between the tackles and we gained 7 yards. The other ones were consistently to the outside and guess what, the scheme had not one friggin person blocking the De. Regardless if it went right or left, the entire Oline went the opposite way and the runner was basically on his own attempting to go outside with no one , really, no one guy assigned to the DE. Once slowed down by the DE, the Jets defense caught up and it was good for a loss or no gain. Never really looked at it before but either we changed most of the wildcat runs to the outside with no blocking or the runner went the wrong way. Would not like to blame the runner and think the play was designed that way. If it was, it was doomed prior to the snap.

On one play they did have Berger block the guy in the middle then release and attempt to go outside to block a corner back. Being realistic and even realizing Berger was mediocre at best, its insane to think a center has that kind of speed to make it ouside after hitting the guy in front of him first and then swing down the LOS to get the CB on the outside. Again, it was apparent thats how the play was designed with everyone on the Oline but Berger, going in the opposite direction and again, if it was designed that way, to have Berger hit his man then make it to the corner to hit the CB, then its completely insane. There is no center, none and do not even imagine there is one, in the NFL that could do that type of acrobatic act. We played the Jets well and the offense kept slugging it out, Henne included, until the very end of the game. I was at that game and watching it on the replay as opposed to watching it live at the stadium I will certainly say I was wrong about Henne that night. He was pretty good

 

Hear hear!!

If we are to judge Henne on his own merits his skill set is the same as when he left college and save for a couple % points he has not progressed in the NFL. While its true those who surround him haven't helped, including the OC, to pass off his weaknesses by excusing them as totally related to those side effects doesn't really answer the OP's question imho.

I stand by what I posted earlier with the addition that Henne could be an ok back up, under the right staff.

 

Too often late in games he looked confused waiting for plays to come from the sideline. At a certain point in the game you have to trust your QB to get the job done. Sparano and Co never did imo and that impacted his development significantly.

 

So, did Henne regress, or did he simply fail to meet your expectations?

 

IMO, he regressed. I think a lot of it had to do with Henning's putrid offensive scheme. Unfortunately I don't expect Daboll's to be much better.

 

I can't speak to the exact play you're referencing, but generally a lot of the option stuff is going to leave the DE unblocked. Its up to the QB (in this case Ronnie Brown) to read the DE and hand the ball off or keep it. I have seen a few times where Brown made the wrong read. But I'm not sure how much of it isn't caused by DEs being pretty damn quick these days.

 

who is putting it all on Henne? Nobody is. The whole offense was to blame. Including Henne. But that last statement is one that many have a problem with.

Our running game sucked? Get new RBs. Our O line sucked. Get new Olinemen. Our QB sucked ... give him all the benefit of the doubt?

If someone has a poor supporting cast, you can still ask, "Did he play well despite having a bad cast?" In this case, hell no. He played better with Ted Ginn. That's all I've got to say.

 

He was in one word, atrocious. Can he get better, I don't think so. We're screwed for the next 2-3 years at least.

 

Surprised it took 77 posts for the crystal ball to be pulled out.

 

No, that's not true. We all know you're a die hard fan who bleeds for this team. IMO the difference is the expectations some of us have. We've spent so much energy <since Marino> bringing it vet after vet whom were supposed to contribute immediately that we forgot what it actually means to DEVELOP a QB and endure the growing pains of the process.

As good as Flacco & Ryan seemed to be in their STRONG, BALANCED offenses, they even showed in the playoffs that they are NOT yet ready to carry their respective teams. And this is what we asked of Henne ALL season. That's just unfair. There's only 3 guys in the league who should be asked of that role--- Brady, Manning, and Brees.

Please read and objectively digest the following.

Outside of the gimme Panther's game, when Atlanta rushed for less than 100 yards, Matt Ryan was 3-4 (1 of those wins coming from defense) with QB ratings of 77, 62, 78, 67, 67, 69, and 101. When they rushed for over 100 yards, he was 10-0. HELLO people. lol.

When Baltimore's backs rushed for over 100 yards, Flacco was 8-0.
Outside of the Panther's game, when they rushed for less than 101 yards, Flacco was 5-5 with 4 wins coming b/c their defense allowed NY, Pitt, TB, and Cleveland 40 pts COMBINED compared to Balt's paltry 60 pts (an average score of 15-10). When their offense sputtered, their defense rescued them, plain and simple. Stated another way, when Balt backs rushed for 100+ yards, they were 8-0..... When Balt backs rushed for less than 101 yards, they won 4 games b/c their defense allowed only 40 pts. That's 12 wins combined.

When Miami running backs rushed for less than 101 yards, we were 2-8 while allowing 23.6 pts/game. However, Henne was 5-1 when our backs rushed for over 100 yards, with the lone loss coming b/c our defense broke down and allowed Detroit to march down the field.

Does anyone see a common theme here?

Unlike Henne, Flacco & Ryan either had a stronger ground game or defenses that carried them when the offense was stalling..... or both. When we rushed for over 100, we won. When we didn't, our defense didn't step up. It's a team game. We weren't winning as a team, and we had no consistency..... where as teams like Balt win as a TEAM with one aspect of their team stepping up their game while other aspects are struggling.





I want another HOF QB as badly as the rest of us..... but I understand that this is easier said than done. I also understand that to get one you typically need to draft one b/c teams don't let franchise QBs go. I also understand that drafting one means developing one, and outside of Dan Marino, it means enduring up to 4 or 5 years of development before they're truly ready to carry a team through a rough season like we just witnessed.

Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, or Sanchez would NOT have had success in last year's offense. They would have absolutely struggled. If the pieces of the puzzle don't fit together, then there's no puzzle to be made. Last year, we had pieces of 13 different puzzles, with half of those chewed up by the dog. Houdini himself couldn't have put it together.

 

Correction. Get better RB's. Better OL. Better WRs. Better QB's.

If you think Henne played better in 2009 than he did in 2010, then IMO you're not seeing the games. His completion percentage, YPA, YPC, TD%, all went up. His footwork was better, he went through his progressions faster, his pre-snap reads and protection calls improved, he was near the top of the league on 3rd down & short-medium execution. He played his best ball when the team was trailing (90.5 QBR IIRC). And he did this playing half the season with a bum knee and most of the season w/ no running game. The OL was decimated by injury, the WRs were hurt, the TE position was a joke, the OC was over matched most weeks.

Obviously, he's not a finished product. He's got a lot of work to do. He needs to use his eyes better to manipulate coverage, his pocket presence needs major improvement, he continues to drop he eyes when he's pressured, especially pressure in his face, and he needs to work on finding passing lanes and altering his delivery to avoid batted balls. I'm sure there's more but that's just what I've noticed w/ my untrained eyes. He was in his 2nd season, often the toughest for a QB b/c teams have a season of film to learn and attack his tendencies, meanwhile he's just learning opposing teams and players, so he's at the very bottom of his learning curve, hence the term "sophomore slump".

However, there's really no objective way to say Henne "sucked", or that he performed poorly given his circumstances. This is a RUNNING football team, we have neither the WRs, TEs, nor QB to have consistent success as a passing team. No speed or play makers, no screen game, no seam threat, no deep threat, no threat out of the backfield. IMO the idea that Henne was supposed to go out and light it up week in and week ignores basic realities of the game. He put up average numbers, and was pretty good for the 1st half of the season. There are 7-10 QB's who could've come in here and performed significantly better, and none of them were in their 2nd season as a starter.