What Did Everyone Think Of Henne, LAST YEAR?

You mean to tell me that QBs, especially young QBs, tend perform better when they have a solid running game and a good defense to back them up? I'm shocked...

 

Oh BS Killer! You're no different than anyone here. I see you bashing players constantly. So I guess when it's not in your agenda it makes a person a bad fan.

Go sit in the corner and where the hat....

 

I don't know much about Daboll, I'm going to watch the Cleveland games from last year, but not until July-August when my football thirst is at it's highest. There's no way he can possibly be any worse though.

 

By no means were his numbers average. He was near the bottom of the NFL in QBR, TDs, and INTs.

 

Shots fired

 

How did the Saints do with him? My point exactly. Even though he was a talented 2x Pro-Bowl QB, he had a career record of 35-91-3, with 125 TDs to 173 INTs. He's a great example of a QB under performing with chaos around him. Thanks for the reference. lol.

Our offense is not Carolina's offense. The parts are entirely different. The injuries etc are entirely different. That's not even a fair argument to make. I'm talking about OUR offense in 2010.

Although, when you look at the QBs in Henning's system, how many of them had stellar numbers? Not many. They pretty much sucked. His nickname should be, Dan "the destroyer of QBs" Henning. lol.

 

OK. How would an "average" QB have performed under similar circumstances?

 

No offense, but the QB position revolves MUCH more on everyone else's combined play than any other position. The QB bears the brunt of everything, and that's not accounting for the lack of chemistry and proper timing.

And no, he didn't "play better" with Ted Ginn. He played better when there was an actual ground game.

 

Dude, you missed the whole point...

Archie Manning was good enough to make two Pro Bowls on crappy teams. Like Chad Henne could ever sniff a Pro Bowl on a crappy team.

 

lol. Yup, shocked me too when I discovered it.

 

Dude, Archie didn't make the Pro Bowl till his 8th and 9th season. Backfire. lol.

He also had only 2 seasons where he threw more TDs than INTs..... and in his first 50 games he had 40 TDs vs 58 INTs. Thanks again for supporting the Henne argument.

The QB doesn't make the team. The team makes the QB. A QB's potential isn't maximized unless the system fits his skill set and the talent around him is maximized, matches his skill set, is healthy, and has had time to develop rapport. Manning would have never been Manning w/o this.

 

it is a good example, which is why Henne is a bad example. he wasn't a good QB performing with chaos around him. He was a mediocre QB performing with some chaos around him.

 

Dude...How can you even compare Archie Manning to Chad Henne. Archie was a well respected QB in the NFL, Chad Henne is so far a joke. Man, I don't understand your man-love for Henne.

 

There's no man love. I simply understand the hampering circumstances surrounding Henne where as you don't.

It doesn't matter how respected Archie was; he was a victim of poor circumstance, and his play suffered for years b/c of it. Early on, he was entirely inconsistent. The only difference is you're absolving Archie's lack of success. You're acting hypocritical. You're saying that it was ok for Archie to lose and have some extremely poor and inconsistent play when things around him weren't favorable, but it's not ok for Henne to do the same under similar circumstances.

 

Admit, not great at explaining things but it seemed the DE started the slowdown and the corners and outside LBers were NOT buying the Olinemisdirection whatsoever. Now, they MAY have figured it out or as you said, the guy just ran the wrong way but from what I saw, outside of the olympic sprint they expected Berger to run, everyone did the job they were assigned to do, the Jets just snifffed it out big time.

 

Don't jinx it! He did coach one of the only 2 offenses to perform worse than ours last season. But I'm hoping he can prove me wrong.

 

The problem I have here is that too many people are superficially saying Henne had a poor year and we lost games so he needs to go yada yada. That lacks argument, logic, and reasoning.

I respect what Stringer says b/c he gives valid reasoning as to why he wants another QB. I don't disagree with String's reasoning at all. I agree with it. The only difference between Stringer and I is that he's less optimistic about Henne developing these problem areas, where as I feel he can do so under beneficial circumstances.

The question isn't about Henne's talent or potential. The kid has a boatload of it and one of the better arms in the league capable of making throws that very few can. The question is about his ability to develop the rest of his game.

 

Average.

I don't really think the circumstances were as poor as you do. Defense was near the top of the league. Our OL was near the top of the league in pass pro. Our WRs are by no stretch of the imagination worse than average. You can say the running game was poor, but thats about it. The deficiencies on this team were by no means enough to justify more INTs than TDs. Thats just not acceptable, even if you have much less than Henne had.

Is there room for improvement aside from QB? Hell yes. But I don't think the team around Henne was any worse than what plenty of QBs had, and played better with. Jason Campbell's QBR was nearly 10 points higher than Chad Henne's. The Dolphins were ranked 3rd in the NFL in pass pro by PFF, while the Raiders were ranked 28th.

 

I missed Todd's post. However, I think I would have felt the same about his as I did yours. However, when I look at the thread in it's entirity you're right, I think you respect his opinion and he respects yours. No matter how far apart they are.

 

When your offensive unit nominates thier RB as team captain over your QB I think its fair to say he never really had control of the huddles. You seem to like using stats to back up your arguments, do you have a stat for how many teams in the NFL do not nominate thier QB as team captain. I'm guessing its a fairly low number.

 

I thought he had a chance to develop into something pretty decent......... I under estimated the fist pumper's ability to totally make a mess of him and the offense.

For as bad as Henne might have been, our HC was worse.......... he's still got a job. Henne may as well keep his too...

 

In something like 13 years he made 2 pro bowls and it took him 7 years to make his first one.


Bad example man... lol

 

Our defense was good, no doubt. But not good in a way that made it easier for the offense, i.e. forcing turnovers and giving us good field position. Point taken though.

It's hard to truly guage the OL in pass pro, mainly b/c they were rarely asked to protect on their own. Henning leaves backs and/or TE's in to chip on the virtually every pass play. So while Henne often has a lot of time to throw, he also has 3WRs working into a 7 man coverage, and he has nowhere to go with the ball on many occasions. The check down, aka a QB's best friend, just wasnt made a priority b/c our backs were not leaking out consistently. That is a decision made by the OC, and it wasn't that he didn't trust Henne vs the blitz b/c even in 08 when Penne was the QB, we led the league in number of pass protectors per pass play. The only other reason to that is that the OC doesnt trust his 5 man protections. Either way, IMO, it's a design flaw in the offense, as big plays tend to come when teams are forced to blitz. Henne certainly does better vs blitz/man looks than he does against shell-zone type coverages. Hopefully Daboll will take a more offensive approach to, offense.

Not sure how you can possibly say our WRs/TE's were not a problem. All of them are solid possession guys who are effective in the 5-15 yd area, but none of them stretch the field to make room for the others to work underneath. We had a year long problem with Cover 2. Simply put, we had no seam threat so safeties could cheat outside against our WRs. We had no backs to anchor the CBs in the flats, so they could cheat down field and take the WR's away. Our running game was ineffective, even against 7 man fronts; and our play action game stunk so there was rarely much space between the LB's and the the safeties for Henne to fit the ball.

The easy throws that can inflate a QB's stats simply were not there. Think Baltimore game, the screen pass to McGahee on the 1st drive, the handful of check downs to Rice in the 2nd half that killed us. Those go down as big plays for Flacco, when really, it was his RBs taking simple plays and turning them into bi plays. Henne never had that. Our backs were not a threat to the defense. Bess can get a few yards, but he's not a threat to make a BIG play. Hartline needs double moves, play action, flea flickers to get deep, things you can only do once or twice a game. Marshall can make plays down field when he's not bracketed, but Henne rarely threw it to him to make a play. Moore and Wallace don't belong in the NFL. Ditto for Mastrud, Epps, Shuler and Curtis.

We had 3 NFL WRs and 1 NFL TE, none of whom can crack a 4.5. More importantly, you cant just look at the individuals, you have to look at the unit. As a unit, our WRs and Te's were bad in the sense that they just dont compliment each other and it's difficult to design an offense around them. The expectation was, IMO, that we'd have a solid running game and we could get by for a year while Moore and Wallace learned to play. But the the running game never materialized. Marshall was hurt in the middle of the year and never made it back to 100%. Hartline went down vs Cleveland, leaving us w/ 1 NFL WR/TE on the field. Fasano was hurt. Carey went down, Long was hurt, Henne was hurt, Jerry was sick, Procter lasted two series, Penne lasted two plays. We used 3 centers, 3 RTs, 2 RGs, 3LGs, 3 QB's, 4 TEs, and you think that's average? I might need to grab a Webster's and double check the definition b/c IMO there is no way that an "average" QB puts up "average" numbers under those circumstances.

 

Just telling it how I've seen it. Killer is ok by me but sometimes I feel the need to esplain a few things to him...

 

I'd like to see Henne have some good competition and earn it...

 

Very good point. Henne definitely didnt seem to have taken over the team, or the coaching staff for that matter. It seems the team and coaches still believed Pennington was the leader and outside of Jake Long, he didnt win any of them over. It's not absolutely necessary that the QB be thee "leader", Eli won a title for example. But you're right, its disturbing when a lockerroom doesn't view the QB as a leader and its definitely something that Henne needs to work on.

 

You mean when I bash on a washed up veteran like Taylor who adds nothing to the future of this football team.
Or ditto with Crowder who has developed into nothing but an improviser.
Maybe you speak of Merling who has been less than spectacular in many opportunities. That guy doesn't want it and it shows in his laziness.
Pat White was another target but can you look in the mirror and tell me he belonged on this football team.
I might be guilty on the Odrick front because it really isn't his play cause the verdict is still out. Do I think their will be problems with the injuries yes and he probably isn't a need here. I hope he gets on the field and develops.

The crux here man is that I rarely bash on young developing players who are learning the game. When they are being blamed directly it equals impatient fans. Luckily I can hold my head high and say I'm not one of those people.

 

But it makes you a better fan because ???????

You really have no legs to stand on here. You rheem people who say things about Chad Henne while you continue to kill Crowder for example. Neither one of them have exactly lit the world on fire. So for one to bash either player is the same crap...

 

You mean Tony "The Enabler" Sparano who signed off on Dan Henning's bipolar offensive machine?

How dare you speak of that......... why I oughtta

 

Point of reference, our "great" defense was 6th in Total Defense. Total Defense is Yards per game. We were fourteenth in scoring defense. Right behind the Cleveland Browns and St. Louis Rams. That also speaks to bad special teams when a top Yardage Defense can't stop teams from scoring.

 

Except for the fact that Crowder is going into his seventh season and has 2.5 sacks and 1 int. That has some legs bro.

Also I didn't directly ream anyone as you would say

 

It's a shame that they include int's for Td's and special teams points. The Scoring defense would be in the top 10 without those....

 

No, you don't say it to one person unless he disagrees with you. Instead you say everyone who thinks Henne(for example) sucks, or if someone says they don't want to attend games in protest of the work stopage. You call ALL of them out as people who aren't fans or know nothing.

Crowder is not the best Lb'er. Most people know this but there is no arguing that the defense has been BETTER against the run with Crowder in the lineup. Much better, and especially two seasons ago on back.

For someone to say Henne is nothing but average or he's not the answer, or may not be the answer is anything else in a negative manner is not far fetched up to this point. Wether it's the OC, the run game, the line, the Wr's, or the TE, he's been nothing special. For you to say he is developing may be true but unless you have a crystal ball, it's the same thing on both sides. An opinion.....

Go ahead and bash whomever you like. I personally don't mind, and if I disagree I put my two cents in but man, calling people HERE sorry fans, and people that don't know better is off base.

 

Hmm...too bad they count receivers causing INT's, special teams meltdowns, and receivers falling down against the QB too huh?

 

Obviously it is my opinion Ozzy and we are on a message board. That is the objective here right? Opinions are allowed.

Meaning if I want to believe in the development of young players like Henne, Smith, Davis, Clemons, Misi, Wake I'm entitled to do so. Also if I'm disappointed with the play of Brandon Marshall and woriied about his value here can I not do that as well. I didn't personally attack anyone except the fan base as a whole. If you took personal offense once again with this well I'm not sure what to say. I value everyones opinion here including yours.
Sometimes you have to step back and stay out and I do that a lot.
Sometimes you have to say what you feel.

 

Thats the thing man! This fanbase is absolutely no different than any fanbase in the NFL.

I'm not taking offense whatsoever. I happen to think you're a pretty intelligent person and I'm not trying to bash YOU. Just speaking my mind here as to what I see...

 

There is a big difference. In your examples, the Qb is actually on the field. Except special teams meltdowns which I think you typed in mistake?

 

Outstanding, objective post IMO. What you just said is honestly the nitty gritty of it all. None of this should be understated, however too much of it goes overlooked.

The whole "Oline ranking near the top of the league" argument doesn't tell the entire story as you say and is extremely misleading. Over the last 5 games when we went 1-4, our QBs were sacked 16 times. That's a ton. That equates to 52 sacks in a 16 game season <good for 2nd worst in the NFL behind a Chicago offense that allocates little protection for Cutler>. I watched our games. I saw the Oline acting like a sieve. Jake's only 1 guy; he can't fend off an entire defense, especially when he has a bum shoulder.

During these abysmal last 5 games:
-we had 3 games w/o a rushing TD.
-we had the 16 aforementioned sacks.
-a piss poor 111 rushes for 396 yards...79.2 YPG & 3.57 YPC. (79 YPG is 7 WORSE than Zona's league worst avg of 86.8.... and 3.57 YPC is WORSE than Cincy's league worst 3.6). If you exclude the Detroit game where we scored enough points <27> to win, these numbers drop dramatically to 80 runs for 272 yards.....68 YPG, 3.4 YPC, and 1 TD.
-the longest run was a pathetic 10 yards excluding the Detroit game.
-Carpenter missed 6 of 10 FGs, which cost us 2 games <Cleveland & Buffalo>.


We were 6-5 prior to this with playoff hopes alive (7-4 if you call Pitt a win..... 8-3 if you wanna include the Jets game special teams' melt down). There's absolutely no friggin way a team can then be successful (nor can its young, developing QB) when it becomes BY FAR the worst rushing team in the NFL, allows a massive 16 sacks, misses a whopping 60% of its FGs, has only 2 WRs, 1 TE (for 4 games), is playing 6 practice squad guys at offensive skill positions, has no outlet back, has a QB with a sprained knee, while allowing 72 pts over the last 2 games.


Cmon people..... wake up and smell the coffee. Our QB is not YET developed (which is why he was a late 2nd round pick rather than a high 1st rounder like Matt Ryan), so how do any of you expect him to progress with this kind of crap transpiring around him? This is the kind of stuff over history that have irreparably destroyed young QBs, not made them better. No young QB can prosper in these types of conditions.

 

No worries

 

I think what Ozzy is trying to say is everyone here is entitled to their opinions, but this act of yours trying to establish yourself as the #1 Dolphins fan in the Universe is very tiring. Brandon Marshall had a productive year by WR standards. Chad Henne did not by QB standards. Yet you're allowed to criticize Marshall, and then question our fan hood for criticizing Henne? Why can't you just defend your beliefs with reasonable debate? You're more than capable. Nobody takes any offense to that. It's when you try and make yourself out to be a better fan that I think some people take offense to.