Are the Miami Dolphins in Love With QB Colin Kaepernick?

I do like Kaepernick; if anyone remembers, I am the one who began the "Getting to know Nevada QB Colin Kaeperinick" thread.

I wouldn't have a problem drafting him, but I don't know WHERE we would draft him. He's the one prospect whose name I've seen as high as 12 and as low as round 3 in recent mocks. I don't think anyone really knows when he'll go. That makes it hard to say whether or not I want us to draft him.

In a perfect world, it wouldn't happen at 15, but then again, if we trade back, I think there's a significant chance that a team like Seattle swoops in and steals him.

My only qualm with this is that wikipedia is a more credible source than bleacherreport

It's probably true as Kaapernick has been linked to us for awhile now... but still...

 

I hope Miami's interest is merely a smokescreen to throw other teams of our path. I'm sorry, but I just can't see him being anything more than a backup at the NFL level.

 

I don't think the pistol, or the spread offense in general, allows for a great transition to a pro style offense. I want a great QB, not a great athlete at that position, but if the front office feels that conviction about Kaepernick, then so be it. That said, I wouldn't mind any combination of the players in your sig!

 

Ive been right there with you the whole way, he hasn't budged out of my mock, not once...I just needed to get over the hitch, than when I spent the time watching his film, and some isolated games, and all interviews I could find, I fell in love too..lol..this is just one of my posts about CKap.

I would first like to add, and I think its something that keeps getting lost in translation, is were not talking about spending a first on the player..I have noticed most folks don't seem to be quantifying that correctly, but sure are quick to compare him to the other projected first rounders..

Awareness...This is not a 1 read, follow the script type QB..this is a guy that plays with feel, and instincts.. The opposite of Chad Henne..

Eyes are downfield while escaping and scrambling.. He does not have the instincts of a run first QB IMO..He just has the athleticism to get it done on the run when he has to.This is so important when taking a developmental project..

The hitch is overrated.... because the release is quick..not saying its not an issue, just smaller imo than whats being projected..all you need to know is timed speed from initiation of the motion, to the release of the ball..Its quicker than the eye assumes, its a little funky yes, but its a quick funky, which diminishes some of the negative.

For a 230lb 6'5 QB, a low 4.5, is a low 4.5...he has more athleticism than 95 percent of the QB's in the league already..he doesn't need anymore to execute the responsibilities athletically that his position will demand , and has it in spades to escape and make plays...and, just because Von miller tripped him up in the senior bowl, doesn't mean sh$#, if anyone wants to get that twisted with some sort of accurate projection that he might have problems escaping in the pros, I dissagree, I for one will take his athleticism just fine for the position and not think twice.

Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I see a QB that has the accuracy, the guts, and the velocity, to fit the ball into tight windows...

The player has arm athleticism to get rid of the ball under pressure..He can throw on the run to his left or right..

I like the way he sets his feet at the apex of his drop, good base, reads, and fires, with no hesitation..

I disagree on the 4th round grade, his skillset physical and mental, is worth more..

 

I remember, I wrote this in your thread.

''.sounds like you've watched him a great deal, did he ascend after that magnificent performance as a freshman?

His delivery bothered me to the point where I didn't study him enough, however Hurricane has made me take a closer look...

If were thinking wildcat pistol offense for the future, and we are to interpret our coaches and owner's wishes of having a creative and explosive offense, I'am not against drafting the kid.. i'am all about this type of QB this year.''



That was the early stages of my fondness, it grew deeper and deeper...lol

 

i would rather trade up for newton if this the style qb we want.

 

I think that can very well be a real possibility...for me its been about trying to get Ingram and Ckap...That looks less likely because to recoup that 2nd were probably gonna have to trade down, my plan was to trade some players for that 2nd.

 

Colin Kaepernick is quarterback full of contradictions. He has some issues in his game which nullify some of the aspects of his game which make him so intriguing. For instance:

1. He's a four-year starter and a smart guy (37 on wonderlic), and yet he's extremely under-developed in terms of his mechanics, his ability to read the field from the pocket, his timing and ball placement, and ability to process information. How do you have four years of starting experience and you walk out of college THIS raw, more raw than guys that play maybe one year? Along these lines, you look at Kaepernick's passing statistics, from freshman year to senior year...did he progress? How much? His YPA, TD and INT numbers as a freshman were all better than they were as a senior, with a lesser surrounding cast.

2. He's got ridiculous rushing statistics for a prolific passing quarterback with legit passing skills, and yet his passing statistics while good are only so-so in the WAC. You look at Ryan Colburn's passing statistics at Fresno State, or Bryant Moniz' statistics at Hawaii, they play the same opponents but their passing statistics are either nearly as good, or in the case of Moniz WAY better (with lesser tools at his disposal)...and yet Kaepernick is one of the chosen few that will be an NFL starter while those guys are not serious candidates to be the same?

3. He's extremely fast for his size (low 4.5's at 6'5" and 230+ lbs), and yet he doesn't have the kind of quick twitch athleticism, strength or lower body explosion that you'd expect from a guy with that kind of straight line, build-up speed. His agility is really only "above average" and both his agility and jump measurements were bested by quarterbacks at the Combine who shouldn't be nearly as athletic, if you judged based on triangle numbers (height, weight, 40 time)

4. He's got a rocket arm (clocked the fastest at this year's Combine), and yet his delivery on 9 out 10 of his throws is so drawn out and lengthy that he cancels out the benefit of that ball speed. And furthermore, for a guy with a big arm, his deep ball is highly inconsistent and lacks accuracy.

Because of these contradictions, which cancel out the things that make him appealing and unique, what do you have when you cancel all these things out? What do you have, when you take away the things like rushing production, straight line 40 speed, and extreme zip on the ball, NONE of which are of chief importance at the next level? Why is he really that much better than a guy like Jeff Van Camp of FAU?

And I see dj thinks that we're "not quantifying [things] correctly" because we compare him with the 1st round quarterbacks. Well first off, thanks for at least admitting that Colin Kaepernick is not in the same class as the premium quarterback prospects. Secondly, the reason you need to compare him with those guys is because what round a guy gets picked simply DOESN'T MATTER when it comes to what he produces for you on the field. Once he's out on the field, you don't get extra points on the scoreboard because your guy did really smashingly well considering his 3rd round pedigree. You don't get to start on the 30 yard line instead of the 20 yard line because you're starting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder at quarterback rather than a 1st rounder. I'll say the same thing to you that Dave Hyde wrote to me a few months ago. Whether it's the 1st round or the 6th round, doesn't matter, who you pick at quarterback is the guy that holds your fate as a Head Coach and even General Manager in his hands. You don't get bonuses for finding your quarterback in the 3rd round rather than the 1st round. All that matters is whose players and team are playing better. That's the team that wins the game and gets into the playoffs.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/03/draft_winds.html

 

He's got raw mechanics because he played a lot of baseball, and probably spent most of his youth in terms of training, into baseball, and the mechanics that go along with the sport...As you have often pointed out about players that you respect, when they show great jumps in their ascension relative to their starting point, {example Jimmy Graham], you've got to take notice, it is impressive.....What he does have that can't be taught, is pocket awareness with his head up, and great athleticism to get where he wants to go.. What I see is an instinctual behavior at the position, and some innate accuracy, than, I combine that with all the athleticism that I need to teach a prospect correct fundamentls and mechanics, an athlete that knows how to escape, and run with the football when needed, A player who while having great athleticism, does not think like a running QB, a very smart football player, who has a nice ratio of TD'S to Int, A player with no character concerns, and a player that is very coachable...To me, that all adds up to the best developmental prospect in the draft..

As far as treating him like the rest, even the top 3 players at the position, and how I rate them, your right I guess, I should put them all together if iam gonna hitch my wagon to him..but, I don''t do that because I believe in his upside more than others, and because of where I can get him in the draft, so, when he does take the field and becomes successful, I can than look at the 2 players that I put my instincts on, instead of the one, and know that I came out on top based on talent projection...
If I can get the kid who I believe has great upside, in the 2nd, and still get a mark ingram to boot, iam gonna go that route.

Ck, you obviously have a bigger discrepency from Ckap and your top 3..Thats fine, I dont, for me, with this particular player, he makes me wanna go the 2 for 1 scenario, over the get the 1 guy and sell the farm to do so scenario, imo, I think there are too many red flags on your top 3 to sell the farm, {and there is no question we would have to sell the farm to aquire}, thats why I have chosen to go another direction...

 

Allow me:


BLEACHER REPORT!!!??!?!?!??!?!



Not in my house.

 

To be perfectly honest, I didn't follow Kaepernick from the beginning. I only really follow the ACC, the BCS Championship and Rutgers (I want them to lose every game; I hate them more than if the Jets and Patriots combined to form an evil empire).

That said, I've been looking at Kaepernick since December and all of the tape impresses me. He may not be the strongest armed (Mallett), fastest (Taylor), best throwing on the run (Newton) or accurate (Ponder), but I think he's the best overall prospect. He doesn't really have any weakness and could probably fit into any system.

He's a unique prospect in that, I've never seen such a mixed skillset such as his before.... Aaron Rodgers sort of?

In any case, his potential excites me, and again, I'd love him on the team.

 

A guy like him reminds me too much of Graham Harrell and Colt Brennan. Both had tremendous college careers but it didn't translate to the NFL.

[video=youtube;rmwVE7BbDDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmwVE7BbDDs[/video]

That's from his senior season only. My word that QB motion looks nasty. At about 2:10 it just looks wrong. He doesn't bring his body through. He goes so far back then just releases. I'll try to draw what I see his motion to be.



That loop is taking a lot of time to develop. That looks like it could get closed on easily. His motion is leading you to the receiver. I don't want to see him throwing across his body on the run. Running, his feet look heavy. I think you guys are mistaking speed for agility. Mike Vick has both. Kaepernick has high top end speed which means nothing in the NFL if not accompanied by agility (for QB's). If you want a QB to throw solely Quick Slants and Screens, he's the guy. He can launch it in there and there's no safety to key on him yet. Downfield looks like it might be a problem. Anything underthrown looks like a pick. An underthrow for him, AFTER a slow release, would be dangerous. But what the hell do I know. I'll qualify everything with being a 19 year old still learning.

 

I just cannot imagine us taking this guy at 15, if thats what anyone is suggesting here, thats just way too high. I think the first round is way too high. I'm not a guru but watching him on tape he looks like a raw, 2nd day draft prospect that will have a hard time playing in the pros. His size and athleticism are huge pluses I could see someone taking him pretty early but if we take him before the 3rd round I think we're reaching IMVHO.

 

According to a league source, Kaepernick hit 36 of his 38 throws on campus, not including a couple of drops. 25 teams were represented at the workout, including quarterback coaches from the Jaguars (Mike Sheppard) and Panthers (Mike Shula).

Per the source, Kaepernick got “great” feedback from scouts and personnel types and has lined up a total of 10 visits and/or workouts. We know for sure Kaepernick will meet or has met with the Broncos, Dolphins, 49ers, and Titans because we’ve been documenting them throughout the pre-draft process.

Tight end Virgil Green was another highly touted prospect at the Nevada Pro Day. Green stood on his Combine measurables after weighing in at what the source described as a “jacked” 252 pounds. Green caught Kaepernick’s throws in passing drills.

Kaepernick has a late first-round to early second-round projection.''

 

Yes, I do give great respect to those players. Unfortunately, Colin Kaepernick is not one of them. He played football in High School. He started for FOUR YEARS at Nevada. He didn't progress much. It is the complete opposite of the likes of Jimmy Graham, Julius Thomas, Cam Newton and Brandon Weeden, guys that came ridiculously far ridiculously fast and show the promise of continuing their rapid ascension.

 

Let me ask you something. If you had two DBs, all things about them being equal, you didn't know their full 40 times but you do know that one of them ran a 1.40 at the 10 yard split, another ran a 1.50 at the 10 yard split, and a third ran a 1.60 at the 10 yard split...how would you value those guys? How would you value the 1.40 relative to the 1.50? The 1.50 relative to the 1.60? The 1.40 relative to the 1.60?

People tend to split hairs over as little as 0.03 seconds in the 10 yard split, so a 0.10 seconds difference is significant, and a 0.20 seconds difference is monstrous.

Do you agree?

 

Jimmy Claussen was great in his workouts as well. He only missed two passes also. He got drafted after Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy. And no one was even questioning his mechanics.

 

except me...Iam on the record for Jimmy Claussen not being drafted in the first round. The same draft where I had Tim Tebow going in the first...Had Claussen as a bust pick, way before he got drafted....Took a lotta heat back then about both projections.

Iam not using his proday performance to present my case...Just pointing out that besides myself, and a couple others here, there our others out there that would agree with mine and a couple other, projections on the player..

My other QB that I have pimped from the get is Andy Dalton....stock up..

 

Kid had an outstanding freshman year, this at 18 years old and having played a lot of baseball..Thats impressive ascension no?...He stayed very consistent and explosive, executing the offense, while improving in very important categories, Accuracy and single digit int's..

Iam not a stats guy but, did you want his QB rating to be 200 by his senior year?

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2007 133 247 2175 53.8 8.81 74 19 3 18 150.77
2008 208 383 2849 54.3 7.44 75 22 7 16 132.10
2009 166 282 2052 58.9 7.28 56 20 6 13 139.14
2010 233 359 3022 64.9 8.42 79 21 8 10 150.46

Thats weird, I copy and paste that and its in order, than once I post it it goes backwards, weird computers..

 

Bleacher report? Seriously?

 

To start out so quickly as a freshman is indeed to show a lot of potential, and Colin Kaepernick showed a lot of it in 2007. But nobody ever said that drafting based on a perceived rapid ascension is a slam dunk method of picking football players. If that were the case, it would make things a little easier on the scouts. Sometimes guys come really far, really fast, and then just stop. Chad Henne's a good example of that. I would say that's the case with Kaepernick, as well. Somethig doesn't fit. He's a smart guy, but instead of continuing his ascent he took steps backward in 2008 and 2009, and only in 2010 did he get back to that level, with the help of a fantastic surrounding cast full of NFL hopefuls.

I don't care what you say about baseball or whatever, he was a football player AND baseball player in high school, and he played football in college. It's not like he never played football and then just up and decided to do it at Nevada. You're using the baseball thing try try and make it seem like he had further to go than other guys. This is just not the case. It's so ridiculously common for football players and especially quarterbacks to have also had baseball careers, it's almost more shocking when they don't. The difference between Colin Kaepernick and other guys that played baseball like Dan Marino, John Elway, etc...is not that Kaepernick had some kind of unfair mixture of baseball/football experience. The only difference is that unlike the others, Kaepernick allowed his baseball tendencies to bleed strongly into his football tendencies, and he never fixed it.

Brandon Weeden played in a gimmick offense. Back before Holgorsen ran the Cowboys' offense, it required the QB to run a bunch. And Holgorsen's spread is wide open, fast pace, a wide field. If anyone fits what you're TRYING to say about Kaepernick, when you keep reaching for the baseball thing, it's Weeden. This was a guy that played some football in high school (not much I don't believe) and then went straight into Major League Baseball with a multi-million dollar contract from the Yankees. I think he did baseball for something like 7 years before he went to collega at Oklahoma State and gave football a shot. THAT is a baseball background. Colin Kaepernick has been playing football continuously for what, 8 or 9 years? Weeden's first year playing football since like 8 years ago was 2010. Yet, for all the baseball-oriented background, you watch him throw the football. Does he look as raw, mechanical or awkward as Kaepernick? He throws a fastball, don't go thinking it has to do with arm strength or ball velocity, Weeden's ball pops the mitt so hard his receivers say the ball does one extra revolution even after it hits their hands.

 

Just as an FYI, I used my software to time Kaepernick's release, along with others. You'll have to read next week's Draft Winds to hear the results.

 

The only position where I believe speed maters is DB's, who have to have recovery speed. In that instance, I believe it matters.

 

I like Kaepernick quite a bit b/c he is one of those guys with some superlative skills in the areas that elite QBs possess. That doesn't mean that he will be an elite QB. It just menas he ahs a chance. And where a prospect gets taken should reflect that chance (risk/reward). I only see two QBs in this draft whose chances of being elite warrant being taken in the first (Gabbert and Newton). I wouldn't even consider drafting a QB who I didn't think had at least some chance to become elite. I'm not looking for a back-up or a wildcat QB. I'm looking for an elite guy. He doesn't have to be elite this year. I think that's an unrealistic expectation that has been fostered by a few success stories. Unless something incredibly unexpected happens, drafting or even trading up for Gabbert or Newton is a pipe dream. Of the non-first round QBs, ie. players with a smaller chance of becoming elite, I would include Kaepernick, Ponder, Yates and perhaps Dalton. I wouldn't include Mallett b/c I see his character concerns as huge. A player who has had his work ethic questioned in HS and at his two stops in college is not a player that is likely to put in the work he'll need to at the next level. There's more to the character concerns, but that alone would be enough for me. I also don't rate his physical abilities as high as others. I think that at best, he'll be a less athletic Cutler who can put up numbers but doesn't lead his team, but more likely he'll be a Druckenmiller type or worse, Leaf.

As for Kaepernick, I gave him a third round grade. I would be fine using a second (should we acquire one) b/c of the QB premium. I really wanted to like him enough to give him a first round grade, but he's poor on the deep throws and his long stride makes it easier for defenders to get a jump. (I don't think the throwing motion in his arm is a concern b/c it is easily more than quick enough). but I think his athleticism, velocity, accuracy and smarts are all potenially (not equally) in the elite level.

Ponder, I like, but less than Kaep. The injury prone thing is a concern. I don't want this regime to take on another Smiley, Grove or Pennington and then wonder why the position still needs to be addresses when an injury prone player gets injured. I also have him in the third (2nd b/c of the QB premium).

Yates and Dalton, I like anywhere after the 5th. I think their chance of becoming elite are small, but I see enough skills to not rule it out.

 

Nice plug

 

it also matters in zone concepts..

 

Iam really not harping on the baseball thing, I never mentioned it until you kept saying his play did not ascend, I was just providing a theory that he is while not fully raw, somewhat raw?, and you agree on the whole freshman thing so thats good.

Lets also remember those are just his passing stats..He is one of the best of all time at the running part as well... a very productive football player, regardless of your perspective on ascension..There are other variables to be taken into account before you could actually say he did not improve thru college imo...He most certainly became more accurate, and in his case, with the skillset that he already has, I can live with that.

 

only QB in history with 10,000 passing and 4000 yards rushing...

Ckap says that all his throws from his proday were from under center, and he's very" comfortable droppin back..I would imagine so with that stride and feet..boy is gonna get back quick and tall..

He says that nfl people have told his agent thats hes gotta late first early 2nd grade..

Dude is bigger than people think..

 

In all seriousness do you have any proof of that statement? Because we're putting together a Mallett piece, and we're looking, and we're not finding anything close right now, and Simon has access to a database that searches purely for news stories put out about a guy. Just saying it doesn't make it true. Can you source it? We'd be happy to put it in our Draft Winds piece, as it's very relevant...if there is indeed some smoking gun about work ethic in High School and at Michigan.

I suppose that depends on your definition of more than quick enough. Is it as quick as most other QBs out there? No. It's a good ways off. And I've tested it, so I know.

 

I remember Mallet's issues b/c Michigan is one of my favorite teams. I was looking up who they were recruiting several years back and I came across a blog post from somebody who claimed to go to his HS. That poster basically said he was a jerk and that his team mates hated him, that he was more of aparty boy than a serious player. I dismissed it b/c it could have been lie. Somebody who was jealous or whatever. And frankly most senior's in HS are going to be more about having fun than being serious athletes. Then when he left Michigan, there were several reports that his team mates didn't like him. Most were about his arrogance, but some of the articles mentioned laziness and drug issues as well. This was back in 2008 so I don't have any current links, but here's a fox news quote referencing that time:

When Ryan Mallett transferred to Arkansas nearly three years ago, his rocky reputation preceded him.

It traced back to 2007, his lone season at Michigan, when the hulking quarterback with a cannon arm was larger than life on and off the field. On that senior-laden Wolverines team that featured such future NFL players as Chad Henne, Mike Hart and Jake Long, Mallett was despised by many.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...rprise-for-Arkansas-football-teammates-091710

I wouldn't include the HS reference in your piece b/c its unverifiable. I just put in the "more smoke" pile and personally note that it was interesting that this poster accused Mallett of being exactly what later reports accused him of being. But Simon should be able to use the databases he has to find articles about him being disliked at Michigan. I remember reading reports in Michigan specific online mags so I would concentrate the search there.

As for Kaep's release, I think the hitch is no big deal. But when he takes that big stride it is much slower. That is what would worry me if I were drafting him. Fortunately, I believe that it is much easier to teach a QB to shorten his stride than it is to modify his release point. Actually, I think release point is really the primary thing you shouldn't mess with. Once you change that you change accuracy and who knows what you end up with. The QBs that have tried and failed to change their throwing motion are the ones that tried to change their release point. But stride length and wind up can be retaught. That just takes a good coach and a player willing to put in the work.

 

Everything anyone really knows about these perceived issues with Mallett off the field are all hearsay. Listen, what happens in the media draft process is that one person says something, the next guy hears it, he says it too...next thing you know everyone is saying it. Nobody has any real evidence, but they've heard it so many times it becomes the truth.

I suggest you trust your eyes, you evaluate how they play, you watch your demeanor on the field. That will tell you everything you need to know.

Teams, fans, and media lose focus of that all too often.

 

If the Dolphins could get him in the third or fourth round of the draft, I wouldn't mind them drafting him. But I certainly think that drafting him in the first round would be much too high. Even if they trade down in the first round to pick up a second round pick. I would still think that a late first round pick or even a high second round pick would still be a waste if they drafted Kaepernick. I just don't believe that he will be a starting QB in the NFL over the long run, but instead will end up as a backup QB for the team that eventually drafts him. He was a decent college QB for a team who really played a weak schedule overall.
I just don't see him as the future savior for the Dolphins at the QB position.