Trading Down

Ingram + Ponder/Mallett/Kaepernick = Win

So yes.

 

I dont get the love affair with Ingram. The guy is a good running back BUT is exactly what we have had for the last ... oh I dont know how many years. We need speed on offense, drafting slow player is going to get us the same results. Not to mention the fact that NO ONE is going to be able to be effective behind that OL.

 

Trade down and take Hankerson and Devine...

 

Ingram is plenty fast enough. Other than CJ2K, there aren't a bunch of Flash-like feature backs. We need speed on offense but come on, Rashard Mendenhall and Marshawn Lynch aren't exactly the fastest guys ever. Ryan Grant. Pierre Thomas. LeSean McCoy. Cedric Benson. Thomas Jones. All of those guys are pretty good backs but don't have burner speed. The speed is a complementary piece, not the main thing.

Also, we need speed at WR more than RB.

 

I disagree (sort of), we need speed at all our skill positions not just WR. As for Ingram, the guy is going to be a great 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of RB. He is never going to break an 80 yard TD run.... just not fast enough. So, if that is the type of offense that the Fins want then he is their guy. Otherwise, no thanks... personally I fall into the no thanks category. I have already seen Mark Ingram as a Fin, his name was Ronnie Brown.

 

Not a huge fan of Hankerson, thought he was soft as a Cane... Would love to have Devine...

 

I disagree on two points. Mark Ingram can break big runs. He did it all through college with guys run 4.3's (DB's) unable to gain a step on him. I also disagree that anyone should base a RB's value on the ability to break an 80 yard run. That's just uncommon. Ingram has shown he can break runs with his longest of 2010 being 54. However, he broke a 70 yarder in 2009 before his injury, and he broke a 78 yard reception in 2010 after his injury.

 

If Gabbert, Newton, Mallet, or Aldon Smith are unavailable then you trade down.

 

Trade 1st round pick to Denver for their two 2nd round pick

 

I was also thinking of SD as a potential trade partner. They have two #2's to work IIRC. And, they were our trade partner last year. But, as you said...it's not like they have a lot of needs. I think if a player they really covet is still OTB and we're up, then yeah...maybe. And, I think if we got their first (#18) and one of their 2nd's, either one really, we would be sitting pretty. Ingram could still be there at #18, although I've heard it suggested NE may have an interest. And yeah, it would suck to have them take our guy one pick in front of us. But, regardless of who is gone and who is still OTB, if we can work a deal with someone and regain the second we traded away for Marshall, I believe it will be in our best interest. It's what I hope happens.

 

Not to turn this into an argument but college game speed and pro game speed are two entirely different things. He is not going to be facing defense with a couple fast guys... he is going to be facing defense that have linebackers that can run faster then he can. Not sure he saw that a lot in college. Also, I am not saying that the ability to break an 80 yard run should be the primary consideration when grading out a RB. However, I firmly believe he has to have that ability. Also, speed isn't always going to translate into 80 yard runs but it turns that 15 yard gain into a 17... 18 ... 19... yard gain. that adds up over the course of a game.

 

Le'Ron McClain, a fullback, was my fantasy savior one year. He ran a 4.88 40 yard dash. Finished the year with 902 yards rushing including a long of 82 yards....twice. One against the always solid Dallas Cowboys defense. You're joking right? Straight line speed can't help you if you can't get to the hole in time. Mark Ingram has an amazing 10 yard split. His 40 time is better than McClain's. Mark Ingram has vision, hole burst, and amazing game speed. Terell Davis ran a 4.7, worse than Ingram. But he possessed what teams call game speed. Certain people, 40 yard dash time is necessary to boost them. Toby Gerhart needed a good 40 time. Mark Ingram, with all he's done, all the long runs he's broken, the vision, the broken tackles, the TD's, has earned the right to not give a **** about 40 time.

 

My three teams are still New England, San Diego, and Denver though any team could move up for a guy that slipped to 15 who was on their top 10 list. NE would be a possibility but they seem like they just want to play draft guru than go after best player. With SD you only end up with an extra 3rd round pick, but you could conceivably move down again from 18. Denver for the perfect player and for making a publicity splash under Elway.

 

10 yrd split is far more important for a 20 yard gain than ones 40 time, no LB had a faster 10 yrd split than Mark at this years combine. Also, you are exagerating about the linebackers speed in the NFL. Three Lbs had a faster combine 40 yrd dash than Mark did this year (and Mark ran faster at his proday), two last year, and three in 2009. I doubt most of those are or will be starters.

 

I don't want to trade down. Thankfully we ended up with Koa Misi who seems to be a good OLB for us, but the guy we took in the 1st didn't even play a full game. I know injuries happen but in the end, Earl Thomas would have been a better pick than both of them last year. (And i was an advocate of taking williams) Only time will tell who made out better over us trading down but right now I'd take Thomas over the two guys we got.

I'd like Ingram in this draft. Ronnie never had blazing speed but if i could draft him knowing he'd never get injured, i'd draft him again in a heartbeat. Not that Ingram won't get injured, cause he already did in college.

You know what? Im glad i dont make these decisions.

 

Absolutely. At his pro-day, Ingram clocked between a 4.47 and a 4.53. Drastic improvements. If he really hit that 4.47, there's no reason for us NOT to draft him. That's only .07 less than AP. The difference between them physically is 3 inches of height and 10 pounds. Ingram can break em with the best of them. I just wish we had two high first round picks so we could go Bama in the draft. Julio Jones, Mark Ingram, and McElroy will end up being a steal later.

 

This was respectful debate.. KM has his point of view I have mine... No one really needs you smart *** comments.

 

Ingram is far different from Ronnie. Ronnie is slow to the hole and has poor vision.

Ingram may not be Spiller (who did oh so well this past year btw), but he is the opposite of what I just said. He hits the hole fast and hard (yeah yeah ha ha) and runs with great vision.

Three yards and a cloud of dust is Lex Hilliard, Mike Allstot, or these days its Ricky Williams. Guys who just get low and plow forward for as long as they can. Ingram is NOT that kind of player! He is a guy who routinely and reliably is hitting the second level of a defense, getting past LBs and into the secondary - something that Ronnie and Ricky both have struggled with.

As for trading down, San Diego makes the most sense. They sit behind NE who also is looking to draft the same positions (DE like Cam Jordan). They have #'s 50 and 61 so they certainly have the ammo, I'd take either one with a first round swap, and probably have a low rounder tossed in for good measure.

Of course trading down all requires seeing who is available at 15. Newton or Gabbert? Um hell no, we run to the Commish and don't look back. Julio Jones, Pat Peterson and Von Miller as well. Aldon Smith is intriguing but ultimately I think I'd pass on him. Aside from Smith, none of the players I mentioned will likely be available, so trading down a few spots and selecting amongst Mallet, Locket, Ponder, Ingram, LeShoure and Pouncey would be a good move at that point.

 

Tampa Bay could be a potential trade down. They sit at 20 and need a pass rushing DE in a bad way. If Aldon Smith is there at #15 maybe they pull the trigger and give us a 3rd to move up 5 spots. It's a start at least.

From there I'd love to see us trade back 2 more times to the top of the 2nd and pick up two more 3rds along the way. An early 2nd and 4 thirds would be outstanding this year IMO. Why stop there?!---- a mid 2nd and 5 thirds would be even better....... however, a late 2nd with 6 thirds would take the cake. lol.

 

If we can trade that partridge for a 3rd then count me in.

 

So let's be honest how low does the lowest QB go out of the top five specifically Ponder and Mallett. Do you even take a chance at 15 if you want one of those two.