Do you have some intimate knowledge of what Ireland, other scouts, or other GMs think of Henne? By all means, explain, drop a quote or two. Or do you like the idea that those people might share your opinion so much that you're superimposing your beliefs on them? Like I said, the mental gymnastics you Henne bashers go thru are transparent and hilarious.
Very warm indeed. The water was boiling on Paul Soliai around this time last year. Cam Wake & Chris Clemons too. Bashing Henne seems makes people feel better for some reason, so does fantasizing about how some rookie is going to come in and do better. I'm just glad that fans don't get to make the draft picks.
Oh brother. Here we go again. I thought we had established that I was not a "Henne basher" in the other thread, and you and I seemed to have reached some common ground there. Seems you have a short memory. I don't need to have intimate knowledge of what a GM would do. Of course I'm speculating, and that's what all of us are mostly ever doing on this board. Don't kid yourself. And also, if you're not afraid to speculate ask yourself this: If teams were allowed to conduct trades for players, would any team offer a first round pick to Miami for Chad Henne? I don't think so. And why wouldn't they if they would be willing to draft Henne in the first round. Especially considering teams probably won't even offer a first round pick for an established QB such as Carson Palmer. I could be president of Chad Henne's fan club, and have every belief that he would develop into an elite QB in this league and my opinion on whether or not a GM would draft him in the first round would not change.
Seeing what I have seen from Henne to this point in his short career, and applying a retroactive draft ranking on him, I would probably give him a 4th-5th round grade. That doesn't mean he can't still become an FNL caliber starting QB, but it does mean If I'm a GM, I'm not going to take as much of a chance on him.
There is absolutely no way to know what Henne could go for, or where he'd go, period. The only reason I said he'd be a first rounder is b/c IMO none of this years QBs are NFL ready and all have big giant red flags. Newton has experience, mechanics and character concerns. Gabbert has experience and mechanical concerns, he threw a whopping 16 TDs. Locker was a 56% passer in college, in a poor defensive conference, how does that translate to the pros? Mallett has character, leadership, legal, and athleticism concerns. Ponder has an injury history and questionable arm strength. And yet, all 4 have a decent chance of going in the 1st round. So IMO it is not at all unreasonable that a guy like Henne who has demonstrated that the can be a a capable starter, would go in the 1st round as well. With the number of teams who have nothing at the QB position, I find it hard to believe he'd last anywhere past the 2nd. Pat White was a 2nd round pick. Obviously you disagree, but the level of certainty you seem to have, and using what GMs think to buttress your points is a tad bit over the top, IMO.
What draft grade would you put on Dan Henning, Sparano, David Lee & the guys who were out in charge of grooming Henne? Or does developing a young QB not matter to you?
That's pretty funny. Even funnier is that I stopped just short of saying something along the lines of "but you better believe I would've put him in a better position to succeed." Or, something like that. Anyway, yeah...good point. And yeah...developing a young QB does matter to me.
Of course there's no way to know anything for sure, but this is why I THINK no GM would spend a first round pick on Henne. It's my opinion that a team selects QBs in the first round with the hope that they can be a franchise QB. The fact that they are an unknown helps to inflate their value. In the eyes of a GM they could be the next Peyton Manning. You'll get no argument from me that Henne is probably more NFL ready than most if not all of the QBs in this year's class. But that doesn't mean his overall potential is higher. The fact that teams already know a lot about Henne and his abilities only hurts him. Look at Drew Brees for instance. Once San Diego had kind of thrown in the towel on him after a disastrous 3rd season, they couldn't get a good pick for him after drafting Phillip Rivers and eventually let him hit free agency. But we all know how that turned out. Maybe Henne can get his career back on track like Brees did. Maybe drafting our version of Phil Rivers would light a fire under his ***.
LOL so we're on the same page. I know it sounds crazy, but I swear the coaches were pissed that Ireland forced Henne on them, they were on a mission to prove that Chad Pennington should've been the starter, and they yanked Henne the first chance they got. I dont necessarily blame them, Penne was the unquestioned team leader and had taken them to an 11-5 record. But once the decision was made, they shouldve been doing everything to help Henne succeed and that is clearly not what happened.
Well, I don't know that I would go quite that far. I really think it was just the FO/coaching staff trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. Henne is clearly not Pennington. So, why try to force the same system on him? Especially if you knew that when you drafted him (assuming they did their homework that is). And, I really hate to assume, especially with this regime. But yeah...Henne was really almost set up to fail IMHO.
I see your point, I just don't agree. I think the fact that Henne has proven he can compete on the next level gives him more value, not less. Potential is a double edged sword. Sure Newton may be the next Steve Young, but he may also be the next Vince Young or Akili Smith. Ponder may be the next Rodgers or he may be the next Heath Shuler. No one knows, not even the GMs. A lot of it depends on the system and situation a QB goes into. If those guys go to a team where they can sit and learn, if they have a good staff, supporting cast etc I think they can be successfull. But if they're taken by a bad team and asked to be the savior within a year or two then I think their bust potential becomes very high b/c they are not NFL ready IMO. Applying that to the Fins, if we take a 1st round QB, Henne sees the writing and signs elsewhere next year. Then our rookie has to be the man in 2012, before he is ready, same as Henne, with the same probability that he will struggle and we'll be right back where we are now. I'd rather draft a QB in rounds 2-4, who we can afford to groom, while giving Henne more support and a chance to show what he can do in a new system. If he doesn't show he's worthy, we have his replacement in waiting, but we're not pressuring the new guy to be "the guy" right away. That's the best of both worlds IMO. Maybe it'll light a fire under Henne's ***, as you said, I def agree there. You may need kerosene and a blow torch for that tho, the guys shows no emotion, ever. If the possibility of getting a raise from his paltry 550,000 doesnt motivate him, I dont know what will.
Yeah its far out. I just never saw any attempt to adjust the offense to Henne's skill set. Henne seemed to be trying to be Penne and that's not his game at all. The WC plays when we got into scoring range, yanking him after good plays, putting him back in on 3rd and long, and the end of the 2nd Buffalo game was the last straw for me. The play calls at the end of that game tell me that we were not interested in winning the game, I've never seen anything like it in 20+ years of watching football.
I'm not a fan of using this year's 1st on a QB since we have no second, but the above is a fair statement. I'm all for letting the "best man" win, but for me personally, I'd like to see the ground game solidified and an offense with one year under Daboll rather than convoluting the mix even further. I also want to see what Sparano's future looks like in Miami depending on how our 2011 season turns out. I'd hate to be stuck with a QB that a future coach has possibly no desire for.
This. Talk about setting a guy up for failure. 3rd & long is probably the worst position for this team to be in when compared to the rest of the NFL.
after 2 preseason games of breaking down Cam Wakes reps in those games, I started a thread saying after what I saw, I felt and stated that we had basically just drafted a player worthy of a top 15 pick, and I asked if he were to reenter the draft where would people slot him...most people called me crazy, actually I think TP was the only one that had my back...People couldn't grasp what I was trying to convey, either that or I was doing a bad job explaining..lol Off topic I know, but if iam to do the same thing with Henne's film after 3 years, I would go 3rd or 4th round.
Gotta tip my hat on that DJ. I'll admit, I was wrong about Wake. I knew he could rush the passer, but his strength in the run game, holding his edge, defending screens and draws, curl/flat zone drops, I didn't see that coming at all. I know you're a big CKap guy, what about Devlin, Stanzi, Dalton, Ponder etc. You'd rather take one of those guys than Henne?
wrote this at the senior bowl..... ''from an article that I dont feel is getting the attention it deserves''.. “Really, this week is the first chance that NFL teams have to talk to you as a player,” Greg Dalton, Andy’s father, said. “He met with the Miami Dolphins coach and general manager and Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and the Seattle staff, and Jason Garrett of the Cowboys. Parcells has developed a criteria for drafting quarterbacks. The height was fine, and he has to put on a few pounds.... Does anyone find this interesting?...I do because iam one of the few that have been talkin this kid up..seems like our regime, including Parcells, has some interest as well, or just a smoke screen..WTH is that all about anyway, Parcells was at the senior bowl??..Anyhow, Ive been trying to get some discussion about this player that I like very much with no avail... He's quick, he has escapability talent, and that QB athleticism that I covet, can run the football when plays break down, has real good mechanics and footwork, no hitches in the swing, excellent leader, improved on his game all 4 years, throws accurate footballs, and basically turned a small time college program into a powerhouse during his tenure..Some of that prestige has got to go to the QB position..I mean that team lost a lot of talent last year, and they still got better....He comes from the spread I know, but hes polished, and sharp with his QB responsibilities. Hes in my top 5, and has been...what say you?
Here, lemme help you out DJ. Opie!!!.... Opie!!!.... Opie!!!...... cmon- say it with me now. lol. I like Opes. He always seems so serious, determined, and competitive.
lol, yeah he looks like an Opie bad ***.. Stanzi is nice and tall in the pocket..accurate, can go thru progressions, can do a lil bit of runnin and throwin.. Iam takin 2 out of this draft, you?
Where Henne goes in the draft is the same as what a GM would trade the Dolphins for Henne (assuming players could be traded). Some of you guys think a team out there would give us a #1 for Henne? If not, why would you say a GM would draft him in the first round? I say no more than a 4-5 at most. Maybe even less.
FellowMember SouthBeach: you're joking right, you're being sarcastic? this isn't really a serious remonstrance is it? you're just trying to break the boredom & stir a little polemic, right? great thread, just what was needed to help pass these NFL doldrums
This is probably the most reasonable of all the posts. To say he would go after where he went when he was drafted seems a bit off. The guy has 3 years experience in the NFL and while he makes poor decisions, you could start him on your team day 1 and he could at least be productive. Nobody knows if Henne will turn into a viable franchise QB. All we know is that he will never be elite and he will also never be a 3rd stringer in his prime. Right now, he's borderline back-up / starter. For a good team, he's a back-up. For an average team, he could be a starter. For some of the really bad teams with terrible options (i.e. Cardinals) he would be the un-questioned starter. I could see high 2nd late 1st if we went in this years draft and we foresaw what his first 3 yrs in the NFL would look like.
I don't think there is any question we could get a 2nd round pick for Henne today. Come on, if the Eagles could potentially get a Top 7 pick for Kolb (assuming the Cardinals would still do that), We could get a 2nd for Henne. A 5th round pick is a pure back-up / 3rd stringer with ZERO upside. To say Henne has ZERO upside is being blinded by the hatred. Believe you me, I hate Chad Henne and hated him over and over last year. That's also b/c I was comparing him to other good franchise QB's, NOT John Skelton or Derek Andersen or Shaun Hill or Jason Campbell or Matt Hasselbeck or Kerry Collins or Donovan McNabb. These guys were starters in the NFL last year. At least 75% of the teams that have a QB like one of these would give up a 2nd for Henne. Some of these guys may be better then Henne today, but they are also in their mid-30's and have ZERO upside.
