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Jake Long..Vontae Davis..Jared Odrick..Mike Pouncey..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When you start the rebuilding project from being the worst team in the league, it becomes imperative that you hit on all of your first round picks..I think its a safe bet that all four players are not going anywhere, and when this young core takes the field, at all four important positions, you have Prototype size, toughness, good character, and hi upside, because all four picks have that first round talent.

    I believe that from where we came from, you MUST judge the totality of the four relative to what happened Prior to their arrival..Show me another impressive 4 year stretch like the one is happening here ?

    Besides Mark Ingram, there was not another skill position player worth picking at 15, and interior oline was a desperate need, and, he was the best player for our need there..Some will say that it should not be that way after 3 years, the oline should of already been built, however, when you start as the worst, the 4th year is the year to judge, not the 3rd. bottom line, thats just not fair,There was just too much work to do to the whole team to think that all weaknesses should of been fixed by year 4.

    As far as the QB, Coach and Irish did not feel that Mallett was worth the 15th slot, nor did the rest of the NFL front offices, and nor did the few of us on this board..The 2nd round is a new round where we might be able to move and select him, CKap or Dalton, all 3 players now have value in this round, I have believed that the player that has the most upside is Kaepernick, I feel his overall skillset is what were looking for and I hope we can land him, but I won't be upset with any of the three..If we choose not to go there, than I think we should just sit tight, and pick up the best skill position player available, in the third round, Tight end, Running back, receiver, whoever the best is at those positions, draft his ***..

    My optimism is that we have a defense for the first time that can control the tempo of a football game and keep us close, any position on the other side of the ball that you can fill with a first round round draft pick at a position of need, the better balance you are going to have as a football team..

    We must quantify the impact on a team that hits on 4 consecutive first round talents..The totality of that talent will make an impact eventually, sexy or not,All four are big, athletic, talented football players at important positions, and when your starting point was barely 1 and 15, those positions must be filled, well, we did, with talent.

    The draft has just begun, lets see what happenns...I'am excited as hell..
     
  2. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What year are we in for this rebuilding project?

    We have a realistic chance to make the playoffs this year ?

    Our impact players are who?

    How many mediocre years does this regime get? If they double their home wins form a year ago does that buy them one more year? two more years?

    The plan is exactly what?

    Results are an afterthought ?

    Wrong direction , this team is floundering ....we won't sniff the playoffs this year imho.
     
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  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Is this based on sniffing the playoffs last season and losing a bunch of great players?
     
  4. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    "We must quantify the impact on a team that hits on 4 consecutive first round talents"

    Odrick and Pouncey clearly haven't made any impact. They may , but they haven't. Vontae has flashed , but been inconsistent , can't see that being debated.

    Again, the results are? At some point you have to realize wins and losses and playoff wins as the measuring stick. Lots of excuses being made for this team and this teams regime , imo.
     
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  5. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I don't think we sniffed the playoffs last year , you do? Really?

    It is based on the gap widening , imo , between Miami and NE and NY and other playoff caliber teams.
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Miami was in the playoff chase at the halfway point of the season. They still had a chance 3/4th the way through. that is sniffing.
     
  7. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We totally disagree then in that regard. Glad you are content with that performance though. I am not.
     
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  8. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    And who was the impact player on the board at 15 that you are just SO outraged that we passed on?

    Ingram? A 4 yard and a cloud of dust RB... thats the "impact player"? No. We can get an RB like that in the 3rd-4th. Who else in the first round was an "impact player" that we could have had?


    Fact is, this first round SUCKED in terms of the round's talent matching up with our needs. Heavy in DL, which is the one position on our team we have tons of players at. There werent any impact players in the middle of the first to be had. Any QB worth a 1st rounder went before our pick, and we had no ammo to move up to get one.

    The 1st round sucked in terms of the talent we needed vs. the talent available. I havent been happy about it since before the draft. See: I REALLY hate this draft!!!

    But to blame the Fins for there not being an available playmakers in the 1st is nonsense...


    Trading down was Option #1, #2, and #3... but there were no trade partners. At that point, you have to take one of the best players on the board that makes sense for your team... and Pouncey was the only one...
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    who said I was content? how can you disagree? What is your definition of "sniff the playoffs"?
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, we were solidly in the playoff hunt in the final weeks of the season which is why Henne has fans so angry with him after throwing int's to lose the Lions and Browns games, we still would not have made the playoffs even if we had won both of those games as the Jests won out, however it is inarguable that in 2009 and 2010 we were solidly in playoff contention at the end of the season.

    I do not share D22's pessimism as I feel the team is still young and will improve and grow through the maturation process, and adding Edds and Odie will help the defense instantly, however the Offense is not very different from where it was in 2008 heading into the season and prior to adding Pennington..lots of questions.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I can see some similarities, however I do think it has more answers. In 2008 our best reciever was either Greg Camarillo (who caught 8 passes the year before) or Ted Ginn. The best lineman was BY FAR Vernon Carey and I cannot remember the second best, I do remember they let go of Rex Hadnot. The runningback situation was much better and the tight end position was a little better. however the tight end position could be about the same after today.
     
  12. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    The comments are for overall , we passed last year on a position of need and an impact player. We passed on , imo , a franchise QB , for a safe pick. The decision to be safe is resulting in mediocrity , can't see how that is debatable. The slide last year isn't either. I hope they are right and I am wrong , that we make the playoffs this year and make a long super bowl run , I really do .... I don't believe that one iota though.

    I don't see Pouncey as being significantly better than several lineman available later in the first. So the option to trade down , or up was there. Ireland stated , he never made calls to move down...nice...proactive there.

    Maybe they don't feel Gabbert is a legitimate above average QB , but he certainly was there to select if they wanted him. Again , it is the pattern of ignoring the important position of QB , and hoping something works , and limiting this team with dynamic players , when we have to compete against them on other teams , by not addressing the need over the length of this tenure.
     
  13. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Pads, we were not solidly in a playoff position late last season. That we trended down is somehow a positive sign? Again , how did we make up the widening gap between us and NE and NY?
     
  14. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    the only problems this team has had the last couple years were injury prone players and bad coaching ....

    we've ditched most of the injury prone guys, and some of the bad coaches .... but one big one still remains :wink2:

    if we don't catch a sniff of the playoffs in the next 2 years -- Fat Man Tony will be the reason why ...... :pity:
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Year 4...The year that any rational fan should give their regime after taking over the worst team in football..

    I think we will be a better team this year than last, with the research I'am doing I feel confident that the team was not far off talent wise, and were being lead by an offensive coordinator that did not now how to use his personnel in a consistent fashion, or take advantage of certain enviable situations with clever playcalling, botttom line, if you believe in rhythm as an offense, he did many things to destroy it..Also 22, I saw very subpar efforts on behalf of Ronnie and Ricky..I think these 3 factors were the culprits of our demise.

    Impact players our Cam Wake, Jake Long, Vontae Davis, Brandon Marshall, 4 of the top 5 core positions are probowl and probowl in waiting players....Karlos Dansby, the whole dline from top to bottom.

    The plan is to continue to build thru the draft, it is year 4, and from where we started, not until after year 4 is it fair to judge imo.

    I think 9 and 7 gets them another year..

    Results have to be put in context..

    What i'am trying to get at in this thread is that if these 4 pan out, which there are good signs that they will, that initself is a rare feat in todays NFL, and will eventually show itself in terms of impact.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you are overrating those two teams, and underrating the variables that this team had to deal with...We started with a blank cupboard because of incompetent prior regimes, they didn't, were in year 4.

    Let me ask you a question 22, the way we play the jets and pats, do you think there is such a big discrepency head to head?
     
  17. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Turnarounds have been a lot quicker than 4 years dj. Look at KC last year.

    I think 3 years is more than acceptable and if you are not close you better be trending that way. I don't see we are to be honest. Sure we have some players, hard to not have imo. We don't have the players needed though and I feel that the gap between NE and NY and Miami is going the wrong direction. I really do.

    Like I said , if we don't own free agency , no way we make the playoffs and that to me signals a regime change , especially when you don't have a QB in place to build on and to move forward with. Just my opinion , though I can't see the positives that others do to think we are a playoff team this year.
     
  18. Linus

    Linus Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's hard to say we weren't close to sniffing the playoffs when we were three simple plays away from being 10-6 (drop by Langford, drop by Carroll, and a botched call giving us a loss that was really a win). There's no excuses...but some seasons, luck just isn't on a team's side.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think if you really look close, you right, it was just a few plays that ruined a season, some far below special teams play, and a few bad offensive coordinator calls to go with it.

    I think we can close that gap this year pending the rest of this draft and free agency...
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Iam not married to them 22, iam willing to give them their final year to show us because of what they inherited...I only think its fair in this situation.
     
  21. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    for what its worth, I think you're right
     
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  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Of the four players drafted in the first round since this front office took over four years ago. The only pro bowl player is Long. Davis is a good but not great CB in the NFL at this time. I don't have any idea how effective Odrick will be in the NFL, since he has done nothing to date except spend all his time on the injury list. The jury is still definitely out on Pouncey because he has yet to take one snap in the NFL. All I have heard about him is that he was a decent interior lineman at Florida who is not the player his brother is. All I do know about the player selections of Parcells, and Ireland, is that the Dolphins are not a playoff contender at this time and when you look at the teams who selected at the top of the draft along with the Dolphins in 2007. They all have rosters now which are superior to the roster of the Dolphins and most of them are now legitimate playoff contenders.
     
  23. When you look at the amount of draft picks and money we have put into our offensive line it should be better then it is, no excuses. The fact that the interior is such a glaring weakness is a direct reflection of this staffs failure.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you can think what you want about our last 4 first round draft picks, I know how I feel how they project, your underestimating them to make your case..

    Vontae is gonna be a great corner in this league, I have enough data to make that assessment..Odrick did not get injured on the first play at buffalo, while he was in the game, I saw what i needed to see, and what I saw, was impressive, Pouncey Iam not worried about..

    Basically this is about what is fair considering the variables inherited...If folks want to cut ties before they play their 4th season, than I dont think thats right no matter how much you dont like them.
     
  25. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    We tried to trade down... they wanted to trade down. But they couldnt. And we didnt have the ammo to move up. So no, neither were an option. What were we going to use to trade up to get Gabbert??? Next years first is what it would have taken.

    No thanks to that...
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I find it rather surreal that you can watch Odrick for a few plays in one game and determine that he has what it takes to be a productive player in the NFL. While I am not questioning his ability at this stage of his career. I just have no way of determining if he is going to be a quality starter for the Dolphins in the coming years or just another role player at his position. I will wait until he has actually played several games in an NFL uniform before I make my determination as to his prospects as a future NFL player. I do thank that Davis is a very good corner but his lack of ball skills is what prevents him from being what I consider a dominant player at his position. He also has shown that he can be beat on the deep route when he is playing one on one, because he often times goes for the fake in the backfield. Hopefully he will develop into the All Pro CB you project he will but right now he still has a ways to go to reach this level. I think Pouncey was selected too high in the draft only because of the play of his brother for the Steelers last year. I do not think he is the same high quality lineman which his brother has shown to be and while I think he might end up being better than the players now at guard and center on the Dolphins. I don't think he will be an All Pro lineman and unlike you I always have questions and concerns regarding players who have never yet played a down in the NFL. The only true star the Dolphins drafted in the last four years in the first round is Jake Long. While I think he is a great left tackle. I still think the Dolphins made a serious error in selecting Long and passing on Matt Ryan in the 2007 draft. What is fair in regards to player selection and Ireland is that the Dolphins remain a mediocre teams after his four years as the GM of the organization. If there is not drastic improvement this season and the Dolphins do not make the playoff. It is time to get rid of Ireland, Sparano, and the rest of the men in the organization who are responsible for player personnel decisions. I personally don't think either Ireland or Sparano are effective in their jobs and I would have fired them after last season. Ross elected to keep them and now they have one more chance to prove me wrong in my assessment of their abilities. I hope they do prove me wrong, but I doubt they will.
     
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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Add paragraphs.
     
  28. PhinPhanatic

    PhinPhanatic New Member

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    haaaaa!
     
  29. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    An impressive four year streak? We only know that two of those were good picks. Drafts have improved in Miami but let's not get carried away here. We're already declaring a guy who played one game and a guy drafted yesterday successful picks? I think just as important as the draft is whether the coaching has improved. Our success or failure hinges on Tony Sparano.
     
  30. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Honestly, a regime entering year 4 without a Qb is usually on its way out. I expect us to mortgage the future on someone like Kolb, Palmer or Orton in hopes of scraping into the playoffs and saving the front office and coaching staffs jobs. To me thats not drafting exceptionally well. The front office needed to take a shot somewhere, not wait around for a Henne in round 2 or pickup a Thigpen for a late draft pick.

    We did not make Qb a priority and we simply are not a contending team without one. I hope Henne improves or maybe a move for a veteran works out, who knows, but 4 years into this regime and we really have no idea who will be starting at the Qb position in a few months? Thats failure to me, don't get me wrong this regime has put together some very good players and Jake Long is a premier talent at LT so its not like we are inept at drafting but we just haven't made Qb a priority and its taking this team down IMHO.
     
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  31. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Pats took Mallet just to keep us from getting a Qb at good value in a later pick.
    Belicheat and his chess playing moves.
    His ways of taking a swing before the game hits the field. Of course this is just IMO.

    Sorry i got totally of subject there.
     
  32. Darrelle Revis

    Darrelle Revis I BELIEVE!

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    Good thread. Didn't Odrick come 2nd in DROY only behind Suh?
     
  33. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Since the Dolphins had no pick in the third round after trading into the second round. There would have been over thirty picks before the Dolphins would have selected, after the Patriots took Mallett in the third round. So I doubt very seriously that the Patriots drafted Mallett just to prevent the Dolphins from selecting him in the fourth round. Perhaps they realized that Brady is 35 years old and they wanted to select a QB who could sit for a few years and learn from Brady. While Mallett obviously was a concern for many teams. The Patriots have done an excellent job of dealing with players who have had character flaws in their past. Mallett will not be under pressure to start immediately as he would have been if the Dolphins had selected him in the first round. Mallett can now take his time, learn from Brady and hopefully mature as a person and a football player. He has the skill set to be a very productive QB in the NFL. He just needs to mature and stop making bad decisions in his private life. Going to the Patriots in the third round instead of to a team in the first round, may end up being the best thing that ever happened to Mallett, in regards to his future in the NFL.
     
  34. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    I guess that's why we play 16 games
    maybe an 8 game season with all away games would be more suited to our abilities.

    If you really believe we sniffed at the playoffs you're sniffing something else
     
  35. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Good God I've heard everything Now
     
  36. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    When your team is coming off a 1-15 record you should hit on almost all your picks as you turnover your roster

    we draft in 2008...
    Merling at 33 a huge underachiever
    Henne at 57 and is still a question 4 years later
    Shawn Murphy at 110...what a freaking stupid pick BUST
    Jalen Parmele at 176...another BUST pick
    Donald Thomas at 195...BUST
    Lex Hillard at 204...Mr. ZERO carries last season
    Lionel Dotson at 245...7 tackles in 5 games over 3 years...BUST

    My point being you can't just hit on first round picks
    that should be a given but picking #1 and having a 1-15
    record you should be able to load your roster with new young talent

    and we failed miserably in 2008

    Look at our 4th to 7th round draft picks of this regime
    picks that should bolster your depth and hopefully get a few
    very good player in the process over a period of 3 years

    2008
    Shawn Murphy
    Donald Thomas
    Jalen Parmele
    Lex Hillard
    Lionel Dotson

    2009
    Brian Hartline
    Chris Clemons
    John Nalbone
    Andrew Gardner
    TJ Folsum

    2010
    AJ Edds
    Reshad Jones
    Chris Mccoy
    Austin Spitler

    Talk about drafting non factors in the 4th to 7th rounds
    for a team that was 1-15

    Who knows what 2010 draft class will look like but In
    my heart I hope it's better than 2008 and 2009
     
  37. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    He actually came in third behind your butch sister.
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If it was 8 games Miami makes the playoffs.

    Work on having a complete point, and less on trying to be clever. Your post does not make any sense.
     
  39. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    We are exceptionally mediocre...
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Every team sniffs the playoffs till the end. If you are at .500 at the midway point you are sniffing the playoffs. Saying we sniffed the playoffs doesn't say much, except to say that we weren't at the very bottom of th league. When we were still mathematically in it, we would have to have won out and hope for a bunch of teams to lose. That being said, we were 7-6 when we beat the Jets, and were mathematically not out of it. Then we lost 3 straight.
     

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