We need a quarterback, that's clear. No rookie QB is coming in here and turning this team around, so I expect a veteran to compete with Henne to start. Pick up Vince Young to keep Ross and the fans happy (and excited) while we develop some QBs. But we do need to draft another young QB to become "The Franchise" in the long term. Some want Cam Newton, but I'm not sold. I don;t think Gabbert's impressive enough to give up picks to move up to get him. Personally, I like a Ricky Stanzi of Iowa. He is efficient, smart, and a great team leader. Check out this season: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243716 Some write-ups and highlights: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2623 http://hawkcentral.com/2010/10/22/the-education-of-ricky-stanzi/ Now, his arm is not great, but it's adequate. His motion and release are a little slow, but again, not bad. Oh, he's also the guy who loves America a whole lot. No, seriously. lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1tRdHYXy0E&feature=related Draft boards don;t know where to place him as he was a 6th rounder to UDFA up to last season, and now could go up into the mid rounds potentially. I would love for us to target a guy like this in the 4th or 5th round and let him work as the third string QB for a couple of years. Great prospect who could develop into a smart, efficient, accurate leader like a Brees or Trent Green given time. Old highlights from his 2009 season (not his best season, but can;t find 2010 highlights) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x2UUWgv1NQ I'd love your opinions. I know a lot of people here have great scouting ability and I'm curious whether you think Stanzi is worth a 4th round pick as a long term developmental QB.
I have watched this guy for two years now and I don't think he is any better of a passer than Chad Henne. I like him as a backup quarterback. JMHO.
I think this tactic would be a huge mistake. A big part of this franchise's problem over the past decade is the kind of thinking that results in taking this tactic...grabbing a veteran, and then picking a later draft pick to "develop". Not often enough is the question asked, "Develop into what?" Guys are not lower draft picks just because they're as good prospects as the higher ones, but they need more time. That's not the case. They're lower draft picks because they usually don't have what it takes to make it into a very exclusive club of quarterbacks at the NFL level that have real pro ability, can deal with an NFL pocket with NFL pass rushers breathing down their neck, can distribute the ball with accuracy to the perimeters of the field, and can make the small handful of great plays that win you the game. Ricky Stanzi is not one of those guys. Every year that you delay taking a chance on finding a guy like that, is another year in which your franchise has no future. That's just a fact. Could you be wrong if you go ahead and grab a guy like that? Yes. But if you don't, it's impossible to be right, too.
Don't disagree. Things to consider: 1) Spending a low pick on him... perhaps 4th is too high. Maybe if he makes it as low as the 6th he is worth a flier. I think he's gone by the 5th though. 2) If he has Henne's potential, it makes sense to practice squad him for a year since he has upside. 3) Henne's been mishandled and maybe damaged, but this kid has not been yet 4) We need a QB badly enough that I have to consider a guy as efficient as he has been. Sparano loves efficiency too.
Very fair points, especially the bold. The reason I'm exploring other strategies than just taking a first round pick isn;t because I prefer it. I think it's high time we spend a first on a worthy QB. The problem is, I don't have a lot of confidence that any of this year's "1st round" QB's are truly worthy of being 1st rounders in a stronger QB class. I don;t study the draft like you guys do, but I have been underwhelmed by all of the QB's coming out. They seem like late firsts at best and only the desperate need of teams at QB is driving them up. Choose between one of these scenarios: a) Vince Young signed, Mark Ingram drafted at RB b) This year's 1st and next year's 1st given to move up to take Cam Newton c) Cam Newton and Gabbert gone by our pick. We trade down. Take... who? Hopefully not Locker or Mallet. I'm trying to go over the best case scenario in my head here and to me, none of the QB's are such a high chance of working out as to be worth giving up the other things we could acquire. And if you are for us drafting Mark Ingram, which I think you are (not sure if I'm wrong there), then what do we do at QB? Or do you propose signing Vince Young AND making sure we get Newton, even if we trade up to do it? I don;t know, CK. I don;t see how this works out the way we want.
Just finished watching the Senior Bowl on my DVR. Ricky Stanzi had a bad first showing when he wnet in, but really impressed me in the second half. Despite his inconsistency, I really feel he has the skill set to translate to the pro's. Pocket presence. Good command of the huddle. Decent accuracy. Adequate arm. Mainly, he can make plays when things are not perfect... with pressure in his face, when throwing without perfect mecahnics... in short, the way a lot of throws look in the NFL. Now, he is still inconsistent, but I had initially thought of him as a guy many teams would see as a 5th rounder, but whom we could scoop in the 4th round. The fact is, if he were ALL good, with no warts, he'd be a 1st or 2nd roud guy. As a developmental guy, I think he'd be an excellent late round investment. The good news is, I think the Senior Bowl has validated some of what I thought I saw in Stanzi. The bad news is, I think he'll be over-drafted. I see him going as high as round 3 at this point. I don;t know that he is worth a 3rd round pick as he is definitely a long term developmental guy. I see him as a guy who you bring in to sit for two years and compete in his third year... but you need a good QB coach. We don't have a proven QB coach, so drafting developmental QB's is probably a stupid play. Still, I love me some Ricky Stanzi. I wouldn't weep if we got him.
Stanzi has what it takes to be a good NFL starting quarterback. First of all, he's a pocket passer. He has the ability to read the defense on the drop. He really improved his decision making from his junior year to his senior year. He's got a good enough arm, and is accurate at all levels. He's got great pocket presence. It amazes me that people try to downgrade a quarterback like Ricky Stanzi while they pump sunshine up your rear end about some damn no brain running quarterback like Cam Newton.
Agreed on all of the above. He also shows escapability, but turns plays where he is flushed from the pocket into big plays downfield rather than just running automatically. Keeps plays alive. Shades of Aaron Rogers, but without as much mobility, there. I also think his conviction and personality make him a great leader, which cannot be overstated in it's importance at the QB position.
Sure, a Qb who can run can create plays that your pocket passing Qb cannot create, a good pass defense still has to account for their ability to run which creates opportunities down the field, something guys like Stanzi cannot create.
But you know, Ricky doesn't run around like a brainless chicken and didn't play in a spread offense that simplified his reads. So he isn't a top quarterback prospect. All he did was do what NFL quarterbacks do....i.e....operate an offense from under center, read the entire field, make multiple progression reads and coverage reads, showed tremendous pocket presence and accuracy when throwing the ball, and improved his decision making.
A run oriented quarterback isn't good enough to utilize the entire field in the passing game, therefore limiting your passing game. You say his feet allows him to make plays that a pocket passer can't. I say a pocket passer's ability to see and read the entire field allows him to make plays with his arm that you will never get from a guy like Cam Newton, seeing as he has no clue what coverage he is looking at and does not go through progressions.
Sure, I'd take it further and say a Qb throwing the ball produces far more plays than a Qb running with the ball. However, there is an assumption in your line of thought that I disagree with a Qb who can run can indeed learn to read defense, or may have the rudiment of doing so, this is not AstroPhysics and many Qb who were good runner led their teams on deep playoff runs and onto winning seasons, the two are not mutually exclusive. Function overwhelms form in the NFL KB, this is not a beauty contest, it is a win the damn game contest.
Option Qb is different from a Spread Qb KB. Funny thing to me is, I do not recall a Qb who can run like Rb failing miserably in the NFL, I recall them as having winning records in the regular season and occasionally making the SB, but "winners' overall. The Top 4 Qb who can run all were upper echelon successful, Tarkington, Cunningham, Vick, Young, all at least made a Championship game, two made the super bowl, even High School Offense Qb Vince Young has a wildly successful W/L record.
You have a short memory. Vince Young is an abject failure as a NFL quarterback. Pat White was an abject failure as a NFL quarterback. In both cases, I told you that they would be failures before they ever set a foot on the field. Had Brad Smith stayed at the quarterback position, he would have been an abject failure.
VY has 54 turnovers in 54 games, that is Culpepperesqe and IMO very scary. Add in the fact that he has not won in the postseason, been a bonehead in Tennessee, has a career 57% completion percentage, and a qb rating pretty much matching Henne's with more experience and better offenses around him. I'd rather look elsewhere or stick with Henne.
QBR this yr was 100, however I point that out simply to point out how crappy a metric QBR is. As for the postseason, well a Qb can drive the bus so far, if the Defense is not good enough, or the Colts run away with the AFCS, Young can do whatever he wished it would not matter they were not making the playoffs. I do agree, Young was a knucklehead in TN, no question about it, I also wonder if a change of scenary would help and why he made 2 pro bowls, the last Dolphins Qb to make the pro bowl was..Marino? And I do think Young has more than some C-Pepe in him, I also recall C-Pepe had shredded a knee and failed to rehab it, Young has no such issue with his legs. Over a decade ago, so for me if we acquired VY I'd try not to overthink it, and I'd enjoy KB's meltdown..
Remember though, we are trying to attribute team success to a quarterback. It doesn't matter that Vince Young is turnover prone, limits your passing offense, and has never thrown for more than 2,500 yards in a season. His team wins in spite of him, so he must be a good quarterback. I just have to laugh whenever someone uses a win-loss record as a means of justifying a quarterback selection.
Steve McNair did not throw for over 3k yds until his 6th yr in the NFL. Yeah because winning games is not the point, games must be won in a certain manner. Which gives me chuckles everytime that is brought up, just the idea that ends and means and means and ends are so twisted in some fans perceptions..win the damn game, everything else is jabberwocky.
Teams win games, not quarterbacks. It's easy to see how much better Tennessee would have been had they gotten a legitimate drop back passer instead of a no brain idiot at quarterback. They had to run a friggin high school offense just so Vince would know the plays. There is a reason that Jeff Fisher refused to coach him and his teammates refuse to play alongside him. The guy is a crappy quarterback, one of the worst the NFL has seen over the past 10 years.
Well no, Fisher said Young simply skipped rehab appointments, the high school offense and what have you had nothing to do with why Fisher parked him on the bench. After all, Fisher did put up with it when Young was making pro bowls.
The pro bowl is a popularity contest and is not a reflection of what the player actually did. Michael Vick was voted into the pro bowl as an Atlanta Falcon, but he was a very crappy quarterback at that time. Fisher had not choice but to put up with him. Bud Adams wasn't going to dump him until all hope was lost, and he lost all hope that Vince would ever be a quality quarterback this past season. Funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bud go after Vince's twin brother, Cam Newton, in the draft in April.
Oh, fish did try to sit VY, in fact he sat him as soon as possible after Young started 2008 slowly, Collins even led them to a 13-3 record, but 2009 however, after Collins fell down, it was back to VY and they went on a winning streak to end the season..see that was the problem, VY is a trainwreck, he does win ballgames even a coach who did not like him simply could not avoid putting him into games. Yeah he did, Fisher's contract allowed him to make the call on who played Qb, see for all of the "Fisher hated him" that may be true..personally, out on the field it is better to have W's with a Qb you do not like than L's with one that you do. Talent is the Crack of the NFL, it forces coaches to do things they do not want to do..but have to do them.
Well I wouldn't say all of that is true about VY,word was that Fisher basically said it is me or him this offseason, that leads me to believe, along with him sitting VY for Collins that he was unhappy with him for a very long time. The long string of incidents that led to this offseason with VY also speaks of a guy with mental issues. I don't think VY's talent had more to do with it, I think Bud Adams had a lot to do with it, the Titans never really won anything of note with VY so I don't think Fisher was ever enamoured with him.
Given how the first three rounds of the draft have played out, I wanted to revisit this thread. More than ever, I hope to see the Dolphins target Ricky Stanzi in the 4th round. That's what my money's on for the 4th round.
All true. IMO Newton was a horrendous pick at #1 overall, and I wouldn't have taken him at #15. I think that the Panthers probably set the franchise back years, financially and talent wise, by drafting Newton that high. And Claussen blows, too.
if I had to choose QB to draft in 4th, 6th or 7th...and they are still there for us, my drudthers would be in this order 1. tj yates 2. McElroy 3 take your pick. Does it really matter which QB we choose to be trained by a QB coach who never worked or coached a QB before. This F.O. and Offense coaching along with the HC is beyound (acceptable)words and the fact that even Al Davis has CONVICTION in his methods as compared to the joke of a organization that we have become.
