1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Scouts inc, Koa Misi, Dolphins D poised to be Elite

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 4, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/28656/soon-to-be-stars-koa-misi

    Hmm strong Defense, just traded 2 draft picks for a running back?

    I have heard this song before!

    :lol:

    Eh, remains to be seen, glad to have Mike Nolan as the DefCord while we have all of these young, developing players, good for him, good for us.
     
  2. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,827
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    Padre, I know you've been harping on getting a new OLB to replace Misi, one that has better pass-rushing skills to complement Wake. But, IMO, Misi will develop into a pretty decent-but not great pass-rusher, and if he dominates the other aspects of OLB position, then why should we upgrade the position?

    and like I stated this morning, if we stay healthy, this defensive unit will be dominating. We have a dominating front 7 (well 6 out of 7 if you exclude Crowder) + 2 young stud CBs + good, but not great safeties.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I had us drafting all defense with our first 4 picks for the very reason this article depicts...

    The guy is a little late to the party but I respect his projections, we are on the cusp of an elite defense, and Misi did have a very solid year with lots of ways to jump to a higher level.There was no reason to take an outside linebacker with any of our first 4 picks, not with what you spent on Misi and what kind of flashes he showed, it just didn't make sense to take reps away from this young player..

    I only hope that wake has taken this kid under his wing..If he can learn a few moves from the beast to add to his already solid skillset then that initself can elevate his game and confidence..

    The only thing I disagree with is saying that Cam wake is a stud pass rusher...That comment does not do this Stud Football player justice..He's the complete package baby..Yes, he is the premiere pass rusher in the NFL, but this dudes overall game was hi level man.

    This teams identity will be our defense, they are that good, the draft and free agency is about creating balance for them, {run game, return game, better offensive production} so they can dominate football games..

    I really want to sign MCD to a contract once free agency begins, if I can have just 1 signing, he would be it, if not him, then the best inside linebacker available, Dqwell jackson would be a nice fit.

    I like that people are underestimating our team this year..
     
    Pandarilla and padre31 like this.
  4. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

    12,587
    1,574
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Washington DC
    superbowl!!!
     
  5. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    Pandarilla likes this.
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Actually Deej, this has been on my mind a lot, this yr, and next, quite simply Sparano MUST be retained, as in absolutely MUST.

    Here is why, the first thing 99% of new head coaches do is Emphasize:

    -Defense
    -Running the Ball

    It is the easiest path to competitiveness, we have seen that since JJ until Sparano, the one time that script was deviated from, 2007, Cam Cameron was a disaster, and back to running the ball, and playing defense, we went, Sparano is trying to open up the offense this yr if he fails guess who most fans want to replace him with?

    Why, Bill Cowher of course, and he emphasizes..Running the Ball and Playing Defense, to me every dolfan should want:

    -Sparano's attempt to open things up to succeed
    -Chad Henne to find his inner Jim Kelly

    Otherwise it is back to the treadmill like a damn hamster running on that wheel, the D can be elite, that is awesome, we need the offense to score points in bunches to advance anywhere in the AFC.

    JMHO.
     
    siciliansith likes this.
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    What I want is a situational passrusher like Wake was in 2009 they do not have to play OLB they do have to get into the Qb's grill.


    Love solid Defense and ST Fin-O, but we have to score points, recall the Bills game where Carpenter missed 4 FG's?

    Sucked, we need to do better.
     
  8. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Hopefully this will disspell the notion that Koa Misi is going to be moved inside. I'm not sure where that notion ever came from, but Misi should be left on the outside opposite Wake.

    And DJ, I think they're going to have to to bite bullet with regard to McDaniel and hope for a compensatory pick for him - depending on the rest of free agency - unless they end up doing something drastic and trade Randy Staks for example. I also think they like Crowder right where he is at ILB as well. I still think there's more pressing needs on the offensive side of the ball, running back, quarterback, tight end, left guard, than to be worrying about trying to find an upgrade to Channing Crowder. I just don't think there's one out there in free agency.
     
    CrunchTime likes this.
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Pod, am I missin somethin, not sure what your tryin to say?
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    We have had "elite" defenses before and went nowhere Deej, I'll be happy to have a shutdown D, but we need the Offense to produce more than the Defense to produce, otherwise we are back to the Wanny/Saban era of Top 10 D, crappy O, sub .500 finish.

    THAT is why Sparano has to find his inner OC and do more with the O.otherwise we start over in 2012..new HC, new Qb, the whole shebangabang.
     
    Disnardo likes this.
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Agreed, and chances are the new HC would want to put his stamp on the D, and then the great defense will take some steps back
     
    padre31 likes this.
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Exactly, or improve a bit, but without that offense we see 13-10 games over and over again.

    Sparano led the Cowboys to #4 in the NFL in offense, a repeat of that performance this yr is just what the Dr ordered.
     
  13. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    i have waited for a dominating D for quite a while ... since the 70s really -- but don't view this D as 'dominating' .... i can't drink that kool-aid yet ... it should be good, top 10 at least ... but dominating is something else, and i don't see us there yet.

    we absolutely DO need a compliment to Wake and Misi is not that guy. Take nothing away from the dude, i agree he should be even better this year -- but he isn't going to get faster ...

    if this regime didn't think we needed to improve on D, then we wouldn't have spent as much time looking for a stud OLB with speed as we did during the draft process. maybe the cards didn't fall right -- namely, Smith got taken ahead of us ... who knows. regardless, i am positive that we will sign 'a' SOLB (maybe even bring back Roth) when FA opens for sure. He isn't the answer we are looking for, but we at least need a 'real' SOLB better than Moses and with IKE still a big ????

    the DL will be good, even without McDaniel .... with a true back-up to Soliai the only question.

    Smith and Davis should continue to develop ... Amaya, Carroll and now Wilson will continue to add depth to the secondary and experience to their resumes ... Edds and Odrick are coming off of injury ...

    we did take a couple fliers to help on 'D' with scooping Rivera off of GBs PS at ILB and signing the CFL dude Restelli at S ...

    all things considered, i think we are a 'push' from last year .... certainly not any worse, for sure -- but not so sure we will be all that much better; absolutely nothing to wring our hands over -- but just not seeing 'shut down' or 'dominating' quite yet.
     
    Pandarilla likes this.
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I see where your coming from, I think Sparano is not the coach that people perceive him to be, I think he is willing to do anything from a schematic standpoint as long as it doesn't fu$# with his core football values..

    I happen to agree with his philosophy on building a team, I think once you got your prototypes in place, you add your flash and skill...last year we dominated teams from a physical standpoint, the biggest example I have of that is the beginnings of football games when both teams are hyped, we come out and we win the battle at the LOS on both sides, we just didn't have enough skill to close deals and to get our defense some easy scores and good field position, and Hennings vision and stubbornness just sabatoged the team..

    I believe that the players have coach's back, and when you get that contunuity thru some rough times, and persevere, you create intangibles that can impact the future of the franchise..

    To me, it all points to what is really fair considering what this coach inherited from a talent standpoint,{ and,including parcells henning baggage}, and understanding that this was not a 3 year project, it was a 4 year one...

    Its why I posted that thread about offseason participation..I think the players have his back, and thats a good thing when the whole NFL is underestimating you, including part of your fanbase..
     
  15. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,827
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA

    couldn't agree more.
     
  16. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

    2,354
    1,402
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Outside linebacker tackles
    Greenway...144 tackles
    Anderson...130 tackles
    Beason...121 tackles
    Hawthorne...106 tackles
    Harrison...100 tackles
    Smith...97 tackles
    Witherspoon...92
    Briggs...89 tackles
    Angerer...88 tackles
    Haggan...87 tackles
    Boley...86 tackles
    Roth...86 tackles
    Peterson...83 tackles
    Diles...82 tackles
    Hayes...82 tackles
    Nicholas...78 tackles
    Rivers...77 tackles
    Cushing ...76 tackles
    Shanle.....76 tackles
    Maualuga ...75 tackles
    Curry ...73 tackles
    Johnson...73 tackles
    Levy...72 tackles
    Suggs...68 tackles
    Ware...66 tackles
    Spencer...63 tackles
    Ninkovich...62 tackles
    Black...61 tackles
    Hunter...61 tackles
    Wheeler...61 tackles
    Matthews...60 tackles
    Clark...59 tackles
    Hagler..59 tackles
    Lawson...59 tackles
    Peterson...59 tackles
    McRath....58 tackles
    Wimbley...58 tackles
    Alexander...57 tackles
    Conner...57 tackles
    Wake....57 tackles
    Orakpo...56 tackles
    Durant...55 tackles
    Palmer...55 tackles
    Phillips ...55 tackles
    Sims...55 tackles
    Foku...51 tackles
    Hali...51 tackles
    Pace...51 tackles
    Porter...50 tackles
    Woodley...50 tackles
    Applewhite...48 tackles
    Vrabel....48 tackles
    Haggans...47 tackles
    Lebar...46 tackles
    Carter...44 tackles
    Allen...42 tackles
    Haralson...42 tackles
    Weatherspoon ...42 tackles

    Koa Misi....41 tackles
     
  17. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    new HC wouldn't necessarily change everything ... such as a Cowher ...

    as much as i don't appreciate fat Tony ... i do think they will be successful enough this year (barring injury) that they will be back a few more ... this business about us getting the #1 pick next year is laughable .....
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I am gonna answer you as honestly as I can, and I'am sure most are going to disagree, I've been a fan for a long time, I never believed in any defense we've ever had, regardless if some thought we were really good.

    This defense, I believe in..all they need is some balance from their offense, and improved special teams play, and I project you will see the best defense we have ever had since our undefeated season, which I was too young to witness.
     
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cowher would change everything because Cowher wants to win with Cowher's team. The only coaches that wouldn't change everything is the Cam Cameron type coaches who want the opportunity, however do not have enough clout to own everything.
     
    siciliansith and padre31 like this.
  20. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,827
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    what a completely useless stat. so according to this, Cam Wake is the 40th best OLB in the NFL? this stat doesn't take into consideration the type of defense each LB plays in and what their responsibilities are within each defense. Misi had a lot of coverage responsibilities.
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010

    In our defense, and most 3-4's, the SOLBs job is to force plays inside so that other players can make the tackle so that stat doesnt really tell you much. Lamar Woodley is the best in the league IMO and he only had 50 tackles.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I see the desire for a counterpart to Wake, its like what detroit is doing with Suh and Fairley, however, I think balance is more important in our case... now if Von miller was avaliable at 15, then sure, I would go for that.
     
  23. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,827
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    totally agree. our past defenses had some elite "elements" to them, but I believe this defense has the potential across the board to be the best since the 70s defenses. but I think we have to fix either Crowder or have one of our young safeties step up to the "Very-good" category.
     
  24. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    dj, i think everyone believes in this 'D' ... it 'should' be very good ... why wouldn't it be based off of last year.

    right or wrong, i base 'elite' and 'dominant' against the Raven D of the early to mid 2000s ... which was both ... we are not there yet (and no i'm not asking for a young Lewis or Reed).

    can we be as 'effective' as the best years with Thomas and Taylor ... sure ... top 5, very good - not elite ... with the DPOTY no less (oh, say like WAKE) ... the good news is that this 'D' is better in the trenches.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    you are probably right, I just can wrap my arms around, trading for a young player, developing his skillset until he becomes very good, and letting him go in his prime shortly thereafter without compensation, thats not how its supposed to work.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    One thing to also remember about tackles is that they are not an official stat.
     
  27. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    Dup, totally disagree .... yes, coaches want 'their' players - sure .... but the base philosophy is there - it really isn't much different if you look at PIT through the Cowher years ... so no - can't buy that. about the only very slight difference in philosophy is in LBs - continuous big emphasis, and still is there
     
  28. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    i don't claim to be an 'evaluator' ... but what i see in Misi is a younger version of Dansby ... and that is how i'd like to see him used - inside and outside, all across the formation. Misi IS going to be a very good player ... i just think he is miscast where he is. can he be successful - sure ... he showed that last year. so, picking up a big, fast speedy SOLB actually would help Misi in my book. i don't think anyone wants to get rid of the dude ..... just put him in a better position to be an impact player.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    as you know, setting the edge is somethin this kid did very well for a rookie, he handled his business.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I didn't say elite like the ravens, no way Phin, I said on the cusp of being elite, which to me means, relative to whats out there now, I said that I think we will have the best defense we have ever had, where that fits into the spectrum of elite, I will leave to the persons interpretation..

    I usually consider players who are top 5 at their position as elite...Cam wake is elite..Jake, elite, Marshall, on the cusp..I believe our defense can be overall in the top 5, so for me, considering what we have had here over the past 35 years, I really dont know how to quantify it.
     
  31. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Curious about your comment re MCD.

    Starks is very very young relative to his NFL experience, he may have a fair bit of value . Straight up , on last years performance , I take MCD. You have to factor in character , if money may change the player , but I really think MCD is on the cusp of being a pro bowl player. Starks was close , but I think not at the level MCD is poised to reach ,if he continues to work at the level he did last year.

    IMO losing MCD for a compensatory pick isn't fair value , so I would look to the alternatives.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    That's the name of the game in the NFL. At least it was only a 7th round pick surrendered for McDaniel. Perhaps they can do the same with Frank Kearse. I doubt they will, but if McDaniel leaves, he might net us a higher compensatory round pick than a 7th, depending on the rest of free agency.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,544
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    But aren't you forgetting the element of scouting a player, seeking him out, trading for him, developing him into a good player with hi upside, this is Irish's baby..It was one hell of an evaluation, projection, and action to go get him, Iam hopin that he's not gonna let him go that easy.
     
  34. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

    2,824
    762
    113
    Dec 7, 2007
    The only thing i think this D needs is some more depth. I'm excited about what they can do this year though.
     
  35. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sticking with DLine , who would you take ahead of MCD to keep?

    This is our strength , so we have depth , but the only player I select ahead of MCD is MAYBE Soliai.

    Odrick? nope? Merling? not a chance , Langford? like him a lot , but no , Starks? again good player , but I'd take MCD. So , we can't trade MCD right ? I would not lose him for little to no value.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Well, our only bad Defense was 2009's, in that sense the Dolphins Franchise has been consistent since Marino left, great D, punchless offense.


    Eh, not quite yet Deej, we do not have the sense that any player on the Defense will make a play, quite the opposite they usually do not make the plays they should make.

    10's D was actually stats wise better than Saban's D, the problem is the same old song, our best offensive finish was 2009, #4 overall, and of course the D collapsed that yr, it is far easier to build a D then an O as much of what an offense does is based on timing and feel.

    Rewatched some Jim Kelly highlights, what struck me was Kelly in 80% of them took a 3 step drop and the ball was coming out, that is what Daboll has in mind for the 11 offense, but will it work?

    Who knows? I has to work though as a regime change would set us back 2 yrs at least.
     
  37. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

    2,906
    718
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Edds my man. Im hoping he surplants Crowder. Getting Odrick and Edds back fit will be like 2 extra draft picks this season. Im rooting for Edds to show up.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Slight different philosophy on LBs and DTs. Enough to change it around, fire Nolan and bring in his own defensive coordinator.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Nolan would be gone, probably will be gone anyway, with Sheridan taking his place in 2012 after tutoring under Nolan for 2yrs.

    New HC's new everything, that is how it goes, Rexxy had the brains to keep Schotty as OC and Westhoff as STC, but that is far more of the exception to the general rule.
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    How come it's on the NFL site?
     

Share This Page