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PFF projects Henne as the #25 rated Qb

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 7, 2011.

  1. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Ok, cool. Marino was a waste of a pick. That's all I really need to know then about this conversation. Good day, sir. I hope your future fandom is filled with less losers.
     
  2. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Shula's legacy will never be tarnished. His teams went to SB's in every era (Griese, Woodley, Marino) he coached in and winning two in a row seals that deal.

    Shula had a reputation for not winning big games until the undefeated season? He was known for losing a SB in which Namath gauranteed victory but he was the youngest HC in the game back then. He was questioned wether he could win it all, not labeled a loser of big games. He was 33 when he began and went 71 and 23 before being signed by Miami. Then he elevated that even further by going to 3 straight SB's while winning 2 of them.

    He'll never ever be tarnished!
     
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yeah that's it, get a franchise Qb then let him get killed behind a crap offensive line. Yeah, that's the ticket!
     
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  4. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The Texans throw the ball all around the field. They're 8-8 or worse all but one year.
     
  5. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I would disagree (not that I personally wouldn't take theirs over ours), just that I bet there is someone who wouldn't. :lol:
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let's continue your thought experiment here. What would their record be if they didn't throw the ball around the field, everything else being the same?
     
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  7. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    The Texans were 10th in passing attempts, behind notable teams such as the #8 Falcons, #2 Saints, and #1 Colts.
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I thought you had to get to the AFC Championship game before you could go to the Super Bowl. Then of course you have to win it, but before you can do that you need to get there.
    Are you saying you would be the same totally disgruntled whiner you are now, if the Dolphins went to the last two AFC Championship games, but lost? Sounds like you would, while the rest of us would be more optimistic about their future.
     
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  9. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Ozzy your being silly

    come on-

    Very difficult to even have a shot at a franchies QB, and to not recognize the importance and need to obtaining one because of a defficient O-line is not even worth wasting time over a discussion... If a team doesn't have one like us they should be doing everything possible to get one and the level of efficiency of the O-line not even a consideration ........ and thats the ticket
     
  10. HeyBaldy

    HeyBaldy Banned

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    ...........
     
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  11. HeyBaldy

    HeyBaldy Banned

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    Don't be silly kind sir. Superbowls are easy to win once you have a franchise QB. Don't you know the Patriots are purposefully choosing to NOT win it every year out of solidarity and respect for the rest of the league?
    Heck, even if we win ONE Super Bowl without a franchise QB, that wouldn't be good enough for Jake because we "should" be winning 16 in a row, one for every season that our franchise QB plays, beginning with his rookie year. <yawn>
     
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  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    There is absolutely nothing silly about the concept of building a team from the line on out. There has been no shot at a franchise Qb by this regime. Not one unless you know something about Manning or Brady being had via a cheap trade?

    If my favorite team is rebuilding, I want a Qb too but my offensive, and defensive lines are the most important thing to build. Period!
     
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  13. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    I'm not and never did disagree with the importance of building the lines and that seemed to be your projection but I just believe that, that should not interfere at all with the prospect of finding a QB. If one of quality QB became available we should pick him up no matter who we had on our line.... Ideally it's nice to have a decent o-line first but ideal situations are not the norm in the NFL and IMO that shouldn't prevent us in the least from upgrading to a higher level QB IF available.................and some are out there although not necessarily franchise level but a definite up grade...exclamation mark
     
  14. HeyBaldy

    HeyBaldy Banned

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    why do you feel the need to end your OPINION with an "exclamation mark" as if your beliefs have somehow been transformed into fact and carry more weight than anyone else's? I'm new here and don't know you, although statements like yours make a person appear as if he or she(?) is full of him/herself.
     
  15. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    You said I was being silly and that's BS! I was dead serious! If I'm building a team and I have the chance to get a for sure 10 year starter and surely an all pro like Jake Long, I'm taking him 11 times out of ten over a questioned marked Qb like Matt Ryan.
     
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  16. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Names are only examples: BUT I was one who questioned Long. I also consider myself fairly decent at the draft but I had more questions about Ryan than I did Long. Let us not forget that Ryan walked into a pretty decent situation in Atl. as well.
     
  17. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What decent situation was that? They were a poor team like us. I think the Jake Long pick was still the correct one. I mean you can't go wrong with an All-Pro at LT.

    However, Matt Ryan should be given credit for turning that franchise around. If it were that easy, Chad Henne would be great here. He had a strong running game to work with, but that was it. The OL still isn't the best, Roddy White was an underachiever before Matt Ryan came in. I mean because he turned them around, they made decisions to get good players around him, i.e. Tony Gonzalez and Julio Jones.

    It's funny that the parallels between their team and ours (offensively) are pretty similar. We just didn't have the QB play up to the hype and obviously our offensive game plan/play-calling wasn't as sound.
     
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  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    that's what happens when you have a viewpoint that opposes Abbi---- you become silly, silly I tell ya.:wacko:
     
  19. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    A strong running game? They had the 2nd most yards, 2nd most attempts, and 3rd most TDs rushing in 2008. I'm not trying to attack you on this, I just don't think your word choice adequately expresses how good that run game was. It was dominant (only a year after finishing pretty much bottom 6 in all 3 categories in 2007).

    Roddy White may have been an underachiever prior to 2007, but he completely turned that on its head when he caught 83 passes for 1,202 yds and 6 TDs from the likes of Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, and Byron Leftwich. And while Jenkins isn't great or anything, he is a big and tall WR who was a former 1st rd pick, and caught 50 passes for 750+ yds in 2008. Jenkins was better than any of our 2008 WRs IMO, and at least comparable to our best 2009 guy(s).

    Matt Ryan isn't what turned that franchise around IMO (it helped, sure), but the reason they were so bad in 2007 was because of their defense and running game. The running game going from bottom 6 to #2 in the NFL was what turned them around (not to mention the defense gave up 5.6 less pts per game on average).

    (Perhaps unsurprisingly) I think the return of our running game to respectable levels would only help Henne (not help him get to Matt Ryan's level) this coming season. I have little doubt that if our 2009 running game was replicated in 2010 Henne would have shown what many people would point to as (adequate) progress. At least to the point where most people (or certainly many) wouldn't be proclaiming doom & gloom simply because Henne (likely) returns as the starter this year.
     
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  20. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't do an adequate job of choosing my words. My point was starting in 2008 what did Matt Ryan have that we didn't?
    The running game was unknown. Matt Ryan had a dominate run game, but ours wasn't too shabby in 08 and 09 either.
    I was unaware of White's presence before Ryan got there. In terms, of Chad Henne you'd have to say we've supplied him with comparable talent with the likes of Marshall, Bess, and Hartline.

    I disagree about Matt Ryan's value to that team. I don't see Chris Redman leading that team to the 2008 playoffs or Byron Leftwich leading them to the #1 seed and HFA last year.

    With all that said, I still believe the Long/Henne picks were the right idea.
     
  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Roddy White and Jenkins (in 2008 and 2009). And even though their running game was unknown prior to 2008, the results aren't (they were 2nd pretty much, while we were about 11th; that's a big gap). In 2009 they added Tony Gonzales, while our running game was excellent. We also had to deal with QB turnover (going from a leader of the team in Penny to a young guy in Henne, who wasn't "the guy" like Ryan was). Had our running game not been as good in 2009, I'm sure Henne would have struggled more than he did (which may have ultimately helped us more).


    We do have comparable talent all-around now, but I don't believe that was the case before 2010.

    I agree with the latter part of the bolded for sure. Redman though played statistically better in 2007 than Ryan did in 2008 (not significantly), and slightly worse statistically in 2009 than Ryan did in 2009. With the running game they had in 2008 I think Redman could have got them to the playoffs, but I don't think he would have the results Ryan got in 2010 (of course that's just a guess as Redman's never gotten significant amounts of consecutive play-time).
     
  22. finagain

    finagain New Member

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  23. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I liked Ryan but had questionable doubts. That's all! He played very very well as a rookie but White was very good the year before Ryan arrived and their running game was outstanding with Turner. Their play calling was far better with much better weapons all across the board on offense. He gets a lot of credit but was not the sole reason they went from gutter to glammer. imo
     
  24. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Nothing wrong with that but my question is did he have more weapons? Did he have better play calling?

    I liked the Long/Henne pick at the time but would have prefered Long/Flacco
     
  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Disagree massively (we're just now starting to become similar.... if our draft picks pan out that is). I might as well create a new thread on the subject in which to compare the 2 teams & players since so many Dolphin fans talk about Matt Ryan.
     
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  26. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Apologists & Revisionist are the sugar-water of the NFL.
    A good dose of reality & competition served up straight is the Elixir of Champions.
     
  27. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Whatever

    It's kind of hard to have a discussion with one who doesn't seem to grasp the point. I don't know how your reading skills are but your level of understanding is poor. You obviously are unable to understand my point and come back with statements not really dealing with the idea being expressed.

    Never said anything about specific QBs such as saying we should have taken Ryan over a lineman (though if Ryan is the quality some express I would have done that in a heartbeat, BUT I DON"T KNOW ENOUGH about him TO make that Call) and I've see that I'm unable to communicate with you to were you understand what it is I was talking about. So I'll not waste any more of either of our time and will say I'm sorry for using the word silly, it wasn't right, but rather tried to find a less abusive word that expressed your not getting the point enough to have a clear discussion......
     
  28. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend Abbi Normal:
    Everybody likes Jake Long. Now, let me ask you a question, looking to the future not the past.
    Would you trade straight up Jake Long for Matt Ryan & move Vernon Carey to left tackle tomorrow?
    Think about it. The answer should be as obvious as it is honest & irrefutable.
     
  29. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Ya that wasn't right of me to say "silly" and I apologized. You on the other hand are really a piece of work. You are the perfect example of the things you hate and should look in the mirror. Your negative reactions of demeaning people because they don't agree with you is profound through out many of your threads. And then you have the gull to criticize others.....

    Have a nice day Boob
     
  30. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    please answer my question

    Everybody likes Jake Long. Now, let me ask you a question, looking to the future not the past.
    Would you trade straight up Jake Long for Matt Ryan & move Vernon Carey to left tackle tomorrow?
    Think about it. The answer should be as obvious as it is honest & irrefutable

    the answer should end the revisionist conversation on mistakes made & 'should have been's"

    a hint: anyone would pull the trigger on that trade
     
  31. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    First I must say that I'am from the school who believes the QB is the single most important position on the team, and IF one is available of exceptional quality IMO should be chosen over any other position where the players are of equal talent.
    I set a priority on the QB........
    Now as far as Long and Ryan as I look back on it from this point seeing Ryans ability I'd take him over Long. But honestly at the time of the draft I had no problem with the Long pick and wasn't familiar enough on Ryan to make the call.For I do also believe in building a solid OL, just QB is even more essential IMO
    I feel that a quality QB is more valuable and the toughest position to fill and I'd rather fill that need if the opportunity was there.......

    I would take Ryan and make LT a priority along with the continuation of building a solid OL for I do understand the vital importance to have success. Don't think Carey would be a viable option at LT for I think he's not the player he used to be and would not fill the LT position adequately enough to be a real solution.
     
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  32. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Kudos Friend Abbi Normal, you got it right. end of conversation, at least for me.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    i'll tell you what
    me and ozzy been on forums together for over ten yrs]
    what ever he is he ain't silly when he is being serious
    about the dolphins
    and he is one of the most astute level headed phins fans you
    are gonna find anywhere
    you are kindy new around here i guess
    but ozzy, he is one of our camp reporters
    and there are none better
    so it would be kinda cool to
    afford him the respect he has earned and well deserves
    you seem real nice overall so welcome to the forum nice lady.
     
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  34. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Speaking of maybe not comprehending what was said! Names were mearly examples and if you re read it a few times, I clearly said I would want a franchise Qb too!!!! My point being when you see a lineman that will cleary be a starter for 10 seasons, make a pro bowl or three, and possibly be an all pro, then you take him 11 times out of 10 over a Qb who shows tools but has questions.

    You went from saying I'm being silly to saying maybe you should not have used that word to now saying I may not have comprehension skills. And you think any conversation between us will ever get anywhere that way??

    To have a clear discussion does not mean all parties end up agreeing and I know for a fact that what I said (build from the lines on out) is a blueprint that a ton of current and former GM's have used when building a team so it's not silly, nor does it mean I don't comprehend your way of thinking.
     
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  35. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Ozzy

    I've written my statement several times and you still don't seem to understand where I'm coming from.

    ONE more time as simple as possible.

    My thinking is:

    U have a quality QB and a similar quality O-lineman. If my team needed a QB and also O-linemen and the players were equal talent wise for me I'd take the QB.....thats it don't make more out of this than it is.....

    Christ i know the significance of a good OL but also the value of a Good QB and feel that they are more difficult to fill and if the opportunity arrives you got to take it....JMO

    And I'm not talking about a 10 year PB lineman to a average QB...but a 10 year PB QB I take in a heartbeat over any lineman no matter how bad the ol was.....jmo
     
  36. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I've read ever word you have typed. You're the one who's making this complicated! I only agree if that Qb looks like a sure fire franchise Qb. BUT I won't play him until I know his (_)_) is not going to get KILLED because my LT, his blind side, sucks...
     
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  37. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Perfect

    Missed the point ......again

    WoW you still don't get it.....alright forget about it ...........time to move on
     
  38. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    What the hell are you talking about over and over here?

    By missing YOUR POINT, which has been clear since you started (yeah yeah we know you'd take a Qb that was equal to or close to, or might look better to you than any offensive lineman) WE KNOW!!!!

    I mean it seems like you're trying to make me say ok Abbi, I have finally seen that you're correct and I change my stance?

    I disagree with it to a point so please get over it, and if you type I missed the point again I'm going to have to get out my denorolizer on you...
     
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  39. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    OZZY

    Part of the problem in this mess is you have a tendency to put your own words in another persons mouth.....as if that's what they are saying......

    Not trying to change anything. One first must understand the discussion then their might be reason for suitable discussion.

    Sorry Ozzy never saw it get that far to feel it was necessary to "get over"
     
  40. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Exactly!!! I think it would be best if you rethink everything so you can finally understand that the other person does in fact understand but does not AGREE with you! It happens man!

    As for your these little jabs you keep throwing out there. I don't understand why you feel the need to do it in every post which btw does not offend me but back and forth conversations are a lot easier when there left out.
     
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