1st down success key to winning the game: (We will need to improve greatly)

So because I'm unable to spend the time you do to go out and search for statistics my opinion shouldn't be held as high in regard? I'm sorry, but your qualifications are no different than mine. You're not employed by the Miami Dolphins franchise and neither am I.

Because I enjoy watching the games, talking to forum members about the team and those games and make my judgements based on my knowledge, my information isn't as quality? If your statistics are so great, how about applying for a job with the Miami
Dolphins. Obviously, they are so qualified to work.

Absolutely I appreciate the time you take to do this. I've tried to say it in every thread you do this, Todd. Take a look! (except this time was difficult) I do that because I try in my head to think this through because I know it's going to come across as "here is the guy that doesn't like Henne." But again, see it from my side. I get that you believe he can be the one to lead the team. But, every time you post one of these it's like holy crap, I get it. And yes, if I don't want to view it, then I can view anything else I want, but aversely if you don't want people who don't agree with your point of view, then don't start 1-2 threads every day on the subject.

I can tell you that you aren't going to turn me into a guy that view's Henne as the guy. I've got to see that from him. Just like I'm not going to turn you into a guy that believes we need to go in another direction. I'm comfortable with our positions. Are you? We can still have civil discussion. But you continually show arrogance (and it's funny because you've called me out as pompous), when you consistently show the characteristics for which you chastise people.

That's my only point man. I'm glad your back from your "hiatus". As I mentioned to DJ, if we talked about so many other topics concerning the Miami Dolphins, you'd be surprised at how many things we actually agree on!

 

I love my "anti-Henne" counterpart here.

 

I would most certainly not think of you as a troll if you did that, never have, as long as your content had conviction and class involved..

I think when you use certain words like '' grossly annoying'' or exaggerate with ''8500'' threads, it just takes a shot at both the conviction and the time spent of the person who believe what he believes..

 

Again, going to a conversation that doesn't need to do so. Even in my post, which caused such a big jolt within you, I never questioned Todd's thinking ability, his intelligence, his knowledge, etc. I only showed an indifference to seeing something regarding Henne every day from him (new thread) and my feelings about that.

Yet, you go straight to my lack of two cents and "arguing like a man". How does this serve you in any way as being the credible, intelligent poster that you are? Again, for all the negative attention the "anti-Henne" faction gets, and it's really a shame we are called that, but anywho...have we had anyone suspended? Do you see any of us calling into question your "manhood" or "intelligence". No.

 

DJ, I absolutely don't mean this as a slight. I say that because it's difficult to distinguish such through words. But, I think you might be confusing the word conviction here. Conviction is a firmly held belief or opinion. I certainly show conviction in my opinion of Henne, as do most fans. Why is it he is allowed to show his conviction of Chad Henne and I'm not about my indifference to the continued posting of threads involved the said player? Again, it's lopsided context here. It's allowable on one end of the spectrum, but not on the other. I really don't know how much clearer I can make it.

 

I'm clearly trying to pad my fist pump stats by appeasing you here, haha.

 

I'd like to know why a mod deleted my joke to ToddsPhins just because some idiot can't understand humor.

 

They are waay overrated red..

 

I think Todd has brought new angles to the same subject, so I don't agree with you about it becoming repetitive..I think that might be your own personal annoyance meter going off..

As far as armando and omar doing research like that...I don't think so Red..don't think they have it in them to go that deep, and if they did, I wouldn't trash them..

 

where would you like to go from here?

 

I would do the same thing for you..

I just think we all can respect each other better on this topic..and that post just got me the wrong way, I didn't feel it was deserved ya know.

 

Well, in the larger scheme of the NFL, I have to point out that the game does not translate well to stats based analysis, as a player going down with injuries means schemes may have to be altered and different opponents call for different game plans that may highlight one players, or units, strengths, and one units weaknesses.

A good example that extends TP's OP:

The NFCS, where Ryan plays, has had two bad teams for each of his 3 nfl seasons, the Bucs had bad yrs in 2yrs, the panthers were bad last yr, etc.

The AFCE has had one "bad" team, the Bills and they were always a competitive bad team, Henne plays against better teams 4 games a yr as compared to Ryan, as the Jest ahve gone to two AFC title games and the pats have at least 8 wins if our games are excluded.

Henne is swimming in a deeper end of the pool then Ryan is yr in and yr out.

 

This is where my confusion lies. Yes, that's exactly what it is, and why is it so bad? Whether it's new angles or not, it's still the same thing. It's a skewed version of stats to improve the position of Chad Henne. Again, the hard work is noted (it's almost as if it's used for future gloating and the "well look at all the stats I've put together, thus my argument is better"). However, it doesn't change the fact that it's arguing the same point that is continually argued.

It is my own personal annoyance meter going. Thankfully, we are so gracious to have wonderful people to allow us a space to voice those annoyances, those agreements, discussions, arguments, good times/bad times, ah you get it, haha. Again, what's so wrong with that? It struck a chord with you and you had every right to react the way you did. I'm not confused at that. I'm just confused at your reasoning for the annoyance based on your line posts, that's all.

I think it's pretty narrow-minded to suggest that those guys, whether you like them or not (and that goes for any writer), hasn't put due diligence into their job or craft. I can assure you that if Todd was so great at providing statistics, he'd have a job with the Miami Dolphins. No offense to you Todd, because I'm sure whatever it is you do, you're very good at it and work just as hard. However, to suggest that, really is inappropriate. And again, it all goes back to what I said before. For the amount of crap, and it is crap, that the "anti-Henne" (I've got to think of a better word) gets, it's not us saying things like this.

 

I just don't agree with you. I didn't make any disrespect to the poster, whatsoever. But, hey you're entitled to that opinion and free to express it.

 

I had a long piece typed up, but this is just more "baiting" to try and entice me into an argument between you and I that has no place here.

I will leave it at this. I'm sure you've failed to notice the countless times I've made reference to appreciating your hard work and diligence. Hell, I'm sure you didn't even recognize that I gave you props with a "Fist Pump" for the very first post.

As I mentioned before, it might be best we add each other to our ignore list and be done with it.

 

Poor OL ComPadre? You are giving them too much credit The more one considers the POS line DT ran behind, if he had averaged even 3 ypc it would have been commendable. You are the CFL guru here, is there even one KSU OL who is a prospect for that league? Because I see not one viable NFL OL prospect amongst the contingent that blocked for DT last year.

 

Probably, and afaik there are no CFL prospects on that Oline as no names have popped unto my radar.

That is one of the dangers of sort of youtube scouting, two games can be examined, but he played 22 or however many, and was the offense, so opponents had little to lose by run blitzing on running downs..inow we can never really know how many negative plays he had at KSU. One can get a flavor for a player, how they run and what have you but the 88 hours of film study just is not really possible imho.

 

Not so much baiting is it is pulling your leg. You haters sure are touchy

 

I see a couple AFL prospects. Maybe a even a UFL one if he's on steroids at the time.

 

Excuse an old man's ignorance here, and also I'm a little hung over from too much tequila last night, but what makes the stats in the OP skewed?
The folks who say they don't think Henne is ever gonna be any good, say it's so because, well, they can see it with their own eyes.
The OP IMO is giving something else to consider, as in, why are you/we seeing what we're seeing? It isn't as simple as just saying Henne sucks balls because I seen it.
Is it true what a team does or doesn't do on 1st down critical to the success of a drive? Yes, without a doubt, whether it is Henne, Ryan, Manning or Brady.
Do the results from last season indicate we were putrid results wise, on first down? Is that going to effect the results of that set of downs? How can it not effect them?
Henne, lo and behold, was the best QB in the league last year converting 3rd and 7 or less. That is an incontrovertible fact. If we would like to see the offense be more successful, we should be trying to get into more 3rd and 7 or less situations. Ideally 3rd and 3 or less. Still even more 3rd and 7 or less situations would improve results for the offense? How do we get more of them? To me, and remember I'm old and simple, it means improve on 1st and 10s. Being able to run the ball better helps immensely on getting favorable results on 1st and 10. So, how does a team do that? Should they start over with another young QB or improve the talent surrounding the incumbent young QB?
As an aside, I'd like to point out that none of Gabbert, Ponder or Locker had a better career college QB rating than Henne did. So I can see why, rather than give up most of this draft and likely some of the next one, to move up and take one, the FO decided it was more prudent to improve the surrounding talent for the current young and still developing QB. Can getting a potential pro bowl center, a RB who racked up huge yards behind an awful OL, a blazing fast athletic WR, and a skilled H-Back/move TE who can threaten the seam, help the situation of surrounding talent for our young QB? An objective answer would be, potentially yes it can. It all depends on our scouts and Ireland's eyes for talent.

 

Haters in the building...(who's songs start off with that? Lil Wayne maybe? I dunno can't remember)

If it was then my bad, but his previous post history would suggest otherwise. You're right though, let's give him the benefit of the doubt!

 

I think your totally misreading the poster, especially in your first paragraph, I don't think that way at all about him and if you know me Red, I called for Hennes benching mid season, he's not using stats to manipulate people, he's using them to show how variables can alter performance and actual outcomes of games..and he enjoys what he does, and has conviction of what he's seeing, and he's doing it in a classfull manner, so why do you have to get pissed off and use condescending remarks about a mans opinion.

I do appreciate you though..I know you have respect on this board, I would just like to move on amicably, no hard feelings.

 

Probably because they didn't know you are the Mr Hyde to Todd's Dr Jekyll. They was a feared you all was serious, not knowing the special relationship you 2 share, and didn't want more problems like the other recent thread that shall remain nameless.
JMO, but then again I could be wrong.

 

A coach at Kstate told me the line was subpar.. He still led the big 12 in rushing...

I dont know what we got til we see this kid in our uni on our field, hes deceptive.

 

I certainly wasn't pissed off. You might be the only one who saw it that way. If I came off condescending I certainly apologize, but again with the idea of condescending being superior, I certainly didn't act like I was superior. I just stated that I was annoyed and I didn't understand the need for the clutter of Henne threads. Not the statistical analysis done on him, put it all into one, that's cool. But, it's repetitive to me. I can see you have a different thought, that's cool. I've moved on, just always hard not to have the last word when you feel like someone has, I don't want to use the word attacked because you didn't, but questioned you in a manner that you don't agree with I guess.

No worries, we're cool my man.

 

And carries, that is impressive, poor Oline and a newbie Rb and he led the conference in rushing and carries?

There are solid reasons why I have grown to love the pick Deej, toss in the WC stuff and DT can be special and quickly.

 

You take yourself way too seriously

 

I'm working from an iPad (and yes THAT is condescending, something about these suckers makes you feel so damned cool), so it's difficult to quote your text with these things.

If I'm excusing an old man's ignorance, then please excuse a young man's naivete, haha.

You make some good points, man. I didn't do myself justice in my clarification on why I view the statistics skewed. What I'm trying to communicate is that you can use any sampling of statistics to support an argument. I mean you really can. I can pull out numerous statistics on why Peyton Manning actually cost the Colts games last year. I mean it's everywhere. And it's my opinion, that there is continuous use of statistics to show certain angles to support the theory that Chad Henne is a solution, not a question. And to each there own on supporting that theory.

I completely agree about first down. You make the assumption that I supported the drafting of a QB and not the draft picks we took. It couldn't be further from the actual truth. I was very satisfied with the draft. I think it will go a long to improving this offense, infusing youth, and helping our QB situation, whether it's Chad Henne or whomever.

What I disagree with is the assumption that because of Chad Henne's top notch 3rd and short statistics and the lack of success on 1st down, that Chad Henne's issues will be exacerbated. I argue, that we had a top rushing offense in 2009, yet saw the same inadequacies of 2009 Henne that we did in 2010 Henne. We were very good on first down, yet still had issues protecting the football and getting the ball into the end zone (scoring enough points). **Note** what I also find perplexing is that many of the arguments were to open the offense for Chad Henne and that Dan Henning's offense suffocated his abilities, yet we're moving even more to what seems like a "caretaker's" offense. Now, this is being used a pro for his success**

Improving 1st downs and a running game will certainly make it easier for Henne and the offense to score, but in order for this offense to be just mediocre or average, there has to be drastic improvement in red-zone efficiency and big play potential. Yes, the play-calling has to be improved, but the play execution on the end of our QB must be also. Our QB must be able to complete those big play opportunities which he has failed to do at the NFL level, other than 5 balls I can remember (one being a helluva catch from Brian Hartline).

Again, I agree we MUST improve on 1st down. However, I don't believe that the improvement of that alone (or specifically just that as in importance to other areas) will lead to greater success for this offense. I think there are bigger areas also.

 

If Henne goes out and by game 5 or 6, looks like a stud, ban me. Otherwise, I will unleash something this board hath not seen. It will be as if a torrent was set forth upon this board, and it will be as if a million haters cried out in unison, and were silenced

 

Eh, DT runs for 1,300 yds then Henne will be drowned in the afterglow..

Thing with Henne is, I can see where he can improve, but I don't trust him, and really think they should add a young veteran Qb.

The thought of Henne being the "guy" in 2012 has my stomach as tied up as a 13 yr old holding hands with his GF for the first time..

 

You mean an American 13 year old. By 13, she's should be in "make me a sammich" mode.

 

Lost in translation KM..

As in, you mean you only have one wife?



Also happen to think the key to Ryans' succcess in Atlanta is Michael Turner, they use him as their bell cow back, maybe Sparano takes a lesson from it?

 

I'm sure there are other things we can improve on offense, and we took steps toward doing that, upgrading the run game, adding a lot of speed at WR, better TE depth, will help on all downs, not just first.

Also, I've heard that said before, that you can use stats to prove anything and I don't buy it. It seems IMO too simplistic of a response by anyone who wants to disregard the validity of a given set of stats, that may go against their own perceptions. Not saying that is what you are doing here however, just meaning, responses to stats in general that a person chooses to downplay

 

DJ, I think that coach meant it as a compliment. Considering that OL, to call them subpar would be giving them more credit than they are due.

 

All good with me dude. My perception was the stats were posted not for the argument of improving first down, but a response to why Chad Henne isn't the problem. And those threads ARE redundant and overly abused right now. My fault for taking it on that course when it shouldn't have been. With that said, previous post history suggests you have a clear agenda for certain topics and against certain opinions. That isn't an excuse, however and I'll be sure to try not to let my perception, misguided or correct, interfere with your work.

 

When are you planning to add something useful to the discussion, rather than one line jabs at a man who put in hours of research to start some good threads?

Have you ever started any useful threads? Have you ever made any concise detailed reasoned responses to a post you disagree with, or do you just throw out one liners?
Please forgive me if you ever have added some useful thoughtful info or comments to the forum and please feel free to post the links to them so I may educate myself on your knowledge of the Dolphins and football.