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Henne was pleased no QB was drafted.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CrunchTime, May 21, 2011.

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  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A lot of that is perception DJ, if one read my "280 carries in a running back thread" there was a 1 win difference between Shulas' last 3 seasons in Miami and Jimmie Johnsons' first 3 seasons.

    And to get like that, you have to have a foundation which we now have, depending on Pouncey, but even then this is a tougher division then it was when we were contending, or perceived, contenders in the 80's and early 90's, those AFC Title game runs were a long time ago Bro, so much so people tend to forget how crappy the AFCE was at that time.
     
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  2. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]

    Wait..What?

    [​IMG]

    Maybe I'm just projecting?...
     
  3. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Ozzy I expect someone like you to be able to understand what I saying here. You are not that dense. Please don't join the "maddening crowd".

    Of course we have to be able to get to the playoffs 1st. Holy Crap.

    But where is this franchise headed ? Are we headed back to where we were in the Shula days when it was not just "wow we might make the playoffs", but "can we get home field throughout the playoffs". Ozzy you are old enough to remember those days. The thought of not making the playoffs wasn't even on our radar. It was who will we be playing in the playoffs. By week 10 of the year, just about every year that is what we would always be arguing about.

    THAT IS WHERE I WANT THIS FRANCHISE TO BE AGAIN....and I don't think these guys in charge now, have that kind of ability to get us there. Sparano just isn't that guy IMO, and I don't believe Ireland is either, unless he can secure us a franchise QB.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So you think we can do better than Ireland? How about telling us who you would hire if you were the owner?

    Hey, I'm old too, and been a fan of this team since 1967. I'd like to see another championship too, but I don't whine and complain about everything to do with the Dolphins in every post. Why not see if you can think of something good to say about the current team? Just one little thing?
    Maybe all your whining and complaining would be more bearable if you offered some specific suggestions on how to improve the team.
     
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  5. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Yes its a tougher division, but it wasn't always a cakewalk bro. We haven't been kings of the division but 2 or 3 (maybe 4 ?) times since we last went to the AFC Championship game in 1992. Dude that was the year of Hurricane Andrew. There are kids that have been born, and are now in 1st year of college that haven't seen our beloved Dolphins as real contenders. Its such a shame that this much time has passed and that we have not been a premier franchise. Our fans deserve it, we've paid our dues, and now its time this franchise gets serious about putting a team on the field we can be proud of.
     
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  6. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Why do I have to positive for positive's sake ? I don't feel that way, and nothing they are going to do will change my belief in that. So you are saying I should be fake and just "la-di-da-di-da" goody goody about the team ? How about it makes me sick to read all the posts that are positive and woweewow we are just so great and magnificent and its gonna be just all so goody goody because we have a QB that ranks 25th or so in the league and have no RB with experience and a rookie that was just drafted and he's gonna be all-world just because I say so.

    PUH-LEASE enough with that horsecrap too.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Absolutely, we have tried the FA route, did not work for Shula, did not work for Saban, we have tried trading draft choices yr after yr under Wanny and it did not work, we have tried fmr SB winning coaches in Jimmy Johnson, the one thing that has not been tried is..patience.

    We have not had the same starting Qb for 5 seasons in a row since #13 retired, we have not had the same HC for five consecutive seasons since Wanny quit, we have not made a AFC Title game run since Free Agency began.

    That is a part of the reason why I am in Sparano's corner so to speak, he is doing the right things, he plays young players over Vets if he feels they are better, he has the team playing disciplined football, he has developed players.
     
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  8. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    You make more sense than a lot here Padre.....but old people (like me) run out of patience. :lol:

    I'm just extremely frustrated. Its not easy seeing the team you lived and died by when you were a kid fall into the pit of mediocrity they have.
     
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  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Believe me when I say the way 2010 ended left a terrible taste in my mouth, thought bf I can recall several Shula seasons ending on blowouts, JJ's last season ended on a blowout, they happen.

    I'd also say there is a difference between a average old team, and an average young team, one has peaked (which is why Saban GTHOOD in 07) and one still has plenty of upside, right now I believe we are in a similar situation as the Chargers were when Schottenhiemer was HC, a young, tough, physical team that is well disciplined, the next move is to learn how to find a way to win.

    And FWIW, I'd have no problem bringing Thiggy back to compete with Henne.
     
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  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I know right. And part of the fun of having a SB caliber franchise is watching them grow and develop along the way. A playoff appearance this year would be a positive step forward for this team, and IMO it would point at signs leading to a 2012 SB season. It's unfortunate that some fans would deem that a failure. :dunno:
     
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  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Gotchya. So there's absolutely NOTHING you can say positive about this organization? How about when we finally win a SB? Will you say something, anything positive then?....... or will it be--- "this freakin franchise sucks until it proves that it can repeat like the 72/73 Dolphins!!!!"

    It amazes me how you even get through a day of living with such a high doom & gloom type outlook.
     
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  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, we beat the patsies on MNF to open the season things will come around, the end run of 2010, in playoff contention just to lose to sub .500 teams, at home, in the manner we did just leaves a bad taste in everyones' mouth TP, if one recalls until Henne threw those int's v the Browns and Lions he was generally well thought of by most fans.

    2 games have sort of defined him right now in Miami along with terrible performances against the Bills in our 2nd games vs them.
     
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    After reading a ton of posts from you on this subject, I think you have a lot of nerve to suggest that I'm the one being dense! You've said over and over and over that your barometer is to win a SB! Blowing off people who've suggest that it might be a good idea to become good first. We know you don't like the coach, and Ireland, and the owner, and the park.

    Ireland has done some good, and some not so good. Sparano is not a favorite of mine but his team went to the playoffs in his first season. Pennington or not, he coached the team. The owner has opened his pockets and has shown he wants to win at all costs.

    I don't blame you if you do not like the coach. He is not a favorite of mine either but he is here, and nothing you nor I say is going to get him fired.

    Franchise Qb? Wouldn't 30 other teams in the NFL like the same thing? They do not grow on trees. They pretty much fall into the laps of certain GM's but teams can win without them as long as they have one who is efficient.

    So am I dense? Hmmm, maybe so but I know by reading your posts that you're not nearly as open minded as you should be.
     
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  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I hope you're correct. I'm thinking Long-Jerry-Pouncey-Incognito-Carey w/ Garner would be our most talented group but Jerry needs to step up and show he can handle LG b/c he was tried there last year in TC and he didnt last a week.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jake, I think we have to look at this logically, this is year 4, the year that in football terms is fair considering the regimes starting point, which was arguably the worst team the league has ever seen...

    While the regime has been rebuilding, the team has remained competitive, that shouldn't go unnoticed..I know that we dominated most teams at the los last year, including the two teams that played in the superbowl, I gurantee you if you ask any team we played last year whether they enjoyed it, you will find positive information that we are right on schedule, fairly, and once again, relative to the starting point.

    So to me, your unfairly prejudging them before you see the year that they should be judged upon..

    I'am tellin you Jake, if this team sure's up their special teams and their run game {which they did address as projected} I believe you will be pleased with year 4, even if we dont win the trophy.

    I don't think the goal when taking over a team as dismal as ours, is to be in the superbowl in 4 years, I think it is to build a team that in its 4th year is ready to make the playoffs year in year out..in the playoffs anything can happen
     
  16. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    So Mr Ozzy

    How many years do you need to get, lets say to reach just "good"

    If I'm not mistaken we've been searching for mediocre this whole century.............

    U think that some fans would start to get a little frustrated at watching us lose year after year after year.

    It's funny and hard to understand people loving this team and having such fear of constructive criticism, or others opinions of needs that are contrary to their own. Hey none of us in here has a miracle of always being right and different views are what makes these places a lot more interesting IMO.........maybe even learn something .....

    Guess I'm a fan of the little guy and don't like to see group attacks on now Jake from the Phins.com peanut gallery. he has every right to his view such as you and your disciples ...........
     
  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    If you think I'm ganging up on Jake because everyone else is you're sadly mistaking me for some other Mr. Ozzy, Mr Abinormal
     
  18. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Jake your not alone.........

    I to have seen signs of lack of wisdom with this organization, along with several of the past. But the past is gone and not worth bringing up.
    As far as Sparano, IMO poor game plans even poorer game time decision, still trying to build a O line which has been the priority from the start with older injury prone players filling a line in constant transition for going on 4 years.
    QB ???? still unable to evaluate Henne
    Special teams: another consistently crappy crew going on two years now.
    Two minute drill ?..... did they ever practice that ??????
    Musical chairs with DB's and O linemen being brought in released brought in..........

    Ya for the serious Fan I'd think there should be some concern but it's funny how some just want to sweep this stuff under the table as if our problems are minimal ..............I'm with you. and feel we are in deep s---t and it's refreshing to see others who can acknowledge the ineptitude with the hope of exposing it for future growth and not stat or excuse guys thinking alls well.......and are willing to drag ineptitude on for another decade.......

    Hey could be wrong and we end up with a team that's wins more games than we lose but after 12 years of losing (-1) you'd think that the natives would by now be restless ........
     
  19. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    My Bad

    Just didn't think you'd be so personally negative to someone trying to expose ineptitude in the organization and obviously hurting at the fins consistent failures ....I was told you usually don't get caught up in the cat scratching derogatory attacks like the peanut gallery

    maybe the other Ozzy ???
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    do you realize that you have a completely illogical POV on this subject..These are your statements.


    ''If I'm not mistaken we've been searching for mediocre this whole century''.............

    ''U think that some fans would start to get a little frustrated at watching us lose year after year after year.''

    What the heck do those points have anything to do with properly judging a new regime that has had 3 years building a team from scratch....Everything that has happened before they took over means jack sh%$, nothing, except that most peoples patience meter is unfairly lower..You must judge the body of work from the current regime, and understand what futility they were replacing.
     
  21. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Dj

    Try reading the previous thread were you might see examples of why the judgement was made.........

    and then maybe not.............
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't understand ,Ive read all the threads..what does it have to do with unjust impatience on the current regime?..Why does having the worst draft record in the NFL prior to this regimes arrival give us reason to have less patience with them?

    Maybe I'am a little lost on whats goin on in this thread, but when I hear folks miseries of past seeping into the current regimes judgmental period, it becomes illogical to me.
     
  23. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Shaun Hill sat for most of his career. Vick sat when he got picked up. Then, Andy Reid went in and did what Andy Reid usually does with QB's, make them look great. Compare McNabb's last two with the Iggles vs. his last with the Skins. Fitzpatrick, again, sat down and got taught by Carson Palmer. Regardless, those guys being good enough to make it in the NFL was a result of time.
     
  24. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    So far, all you've done is proclaim yourself arbiter of all truth, and put yourself on the cross.
     
  25. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Sorry Dj it was the following thread:

    " I to have seen signs of lack of wisdom with this organization, along with several of the past. But the past is gone and not worth bringing up.
    As far as Sparano, IMO poor game plans even poorer game time decision, still trying to build a O line which has been the priority from the start with older injury prone players filling a line in constant transition for going on 4 years.
    QB ???? still unable to evaluate Henne
    Special teams: another consistently crappy crew going on two years now.
    Two minute drill ?..... did they ever practice that ??????
    Musical chairs with DB's and O linemen being brought in released brought in........
     
  26. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    When I hear names like Long, Dansby, Marshall, Vontae, Wake, Sean Smith, Soliai, Langford, Clemons, Pouncey, Henne, Odrick, Bess, Incognito, Carpenter, Fields etc it tells me that we have a SOLID nucleus of young, talented, under contract players that I'd put in the top tier of the NFL. As these guys enter their primes over the next 2-5 years I think we're set up to be a good team for a long time. We'll be able to tinker w/ the roster, a player here or there, instead of having to replace a slew of starters every offseason. I understand the desire to win, but building a team that's capable of winning long term is what we've been doing, and IMO they've done a lot better than anyone else has done here in the last 20 years.

    Tom Brady cant play forever, nor can Peyton. The Jets are getting old on defense & can't keep the guys they have much less improve. The Chargers can't seem to put it together. The Steelers & Ravens are still good, but are aging and are no longer dominant the way they were in the past. IMO the conference will be up for grabs and the traditional powers are ready to be knocked off by teams like Miami & KC who have solid cores of young under contract talent. We're right on the cusp IMO. If we can keep our guys under contract & they continue to improve (talkin to you Henne) then we can be a consistent contender, if not one of the dominant teams in the conference.

    I'm just glad we're not in the Packers' division, they look they are going to be runnin shidt for a looooong time.
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ok thanks..now if you wrote that heres what I would say..

    As far as the game plans go..I think they were fine in principle, just lacking in play making chunk yardage, and a coordinator that was untouchable, and obviously counter intuitive..

    and the other stuff, this is what year 4 is about, judgement time..you must give them a proper time frame to hit and miss, and build and learn, mistakes are to be expected with any regime that had a comparable starting point..your not gonna have a perfect team from where we came from, in year 3, hell the oline has 1 player left from the whole unit..

    Basically what I'am saying Abbi is, don't you have to respect the process, from where the process started?

    so after 3 years of building, the 4 weaknesses that were left have been at least addressed with some talent and fresh blood, special teams, run game, coordinator, and speed..

    After this year, its then fair to judge imo, anything else seems like it has more to do with the past affecting the ability to analyze.
     
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  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    OK, but you're talking to guys who spend hours and hours watching film and dissecting the pros and cons of the team. We've seen all that you're talking about and a lot more. You're certainly entitled to your opinion but calling yourself a "serious" fan implies that your judgement is somehow superior to that of those who are more optimistic. Cant agree w/ you there.
     
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  29. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    I don't need people agree.............

    To me a serious fan is one who is not only a wah wah fan but also not afraid to see faults when they arise and expose and confront them. I see some will find excuses for anything, but thats their prerogative and I usually just stay away from any real discussion with unless attacked......

    Just like to see people acknowledge some of that which you say you've all seen and more and stop making excuses for it........and then make debate on what alternatives we have. Listen if people don't even see the faults you can forget about them ever even having a shot a being corrected. And I'd love to see My Dolphins a force to reckon with again.....It's just been so long being pounded to the emotional lows year after year.........And I not be able to justify excitement..

    Don't get me wrong I am hoping for the best just have a hard time realistically justifying it from the way the team has headed........
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I can respect that, it has been a long time since we've seen a winner here so I see your POV. All I'm saying it that our current roster is very well put together and that w/ a few tweaks we can be a solid contender for years to come. Of course you and many others will want to see it on the field before you get excited, I have no issue w/ that either.
     
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  31. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Go back and read that post again! The only thing I told him was he is not very open minded! Other than that I said if he does not like the coach it's fine.

    I see where you're going with this and you have me messed up with someone else for sure....
     
  32. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Holy mackeral!!! Someone actually gets it! Putting just a couple of pieces together with some already good talent, this team may actually become pretty damned good. Especially if the running game gets going.


    Now if this team does not show they're an improved team this season then by all means blow it up but 3-5 years is usually a good measure to build a team with 3 being from someone who's really good or really lucky at it...
     
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  33. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IMO if we add DeAngelo Williams in FA then we will be set on both sides of the ball. If Tony cant win w/ that then yeah, something is wrong b/c the talent is certainly there. Whether it's Henne, or the coaching staff, injuries, bad luck or whatever. But there's no denying that we have a solid group of players.

    I need for our defense to step and for our offense to give us what they gave us in 09 or maybe a little more. I need a big improvement on ST b/c we were straight awful there. If we can do that, 10-6 should be well within our grasp.
     
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  34. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Remember that DeAngelo Williams is pretty much our opinion! :up:
     
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  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There hasn't been 4 full seasons yet for this regime.
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thanks for not answering my questions.
    Ok, I got it now. You like to whine and complain, but have no specific solutions other than someone besides Ireland and Sparano. You want to days of Shula again, but no specific ideas who we should get to give us that.
    When you cannot find even one good thing to say about the current team, it is a pretty clear indication, you like to snivel, whine and complain just for the sake of doing so.
    Your posts do serve a useful purpose though. Because after reading them, I can say, "hey, I've suffered through the posts of DolfanJake, I can put up with anything the day has to dish out."
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Jerry has never played the left side as a regular starter. He started at RG and RT at Ole Miss and RG last year. He may be one of those who cannot readily flipflop right to left to right, seamlessly. I'd rather see Jerry prove he can be a good right guard before putting anything else on his plate. Incog was our highest rated interior lineman, according to PFF, playing mostly left guard. Our 2nd highest was Berger, and he could get the chance to push Incog or Jerry too.
     
  38. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    delaware
    I don't agree with your post but damm where did you get that picture.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd like to pose a few questions to you if I may...

    How devoid of talent in your opinion were we after the 1 and 16 season?

    How long do you think an incoming regime should get after taking over such a team like that?

    If I told you before the new regimes first season after the 1 and 15 season, that during the next three years while the rebuilding is in affect, that the new regime would present to you a winning record and a division title, would you take that going into their 4th year?

    If the answer is yes, than should the criticism be this harsh in its 4th year, or, should we give them their fair time frame before we jump?

    The bigger picture for me personally is trying to do our part to change the culture of this fanbase..Little story here, a fellow member here went to the packer game, he said that after Henne threw his first int,most people in his section boo'd him and were talking sh$# about him...This after posting a promising first year starting, and continuing a hi level of play in to his 2nd year starting, up until that point he had played pretty damn well relative to other great QB's in their 2nd year starting, as you know he wound up winning the game..

    To me thats gross negativity that can filter into the consciousness of a coaching staff and either manipulate or cause unjust pressure on a player which can directly affect their performance on the field and the way people, teammates perceive the player..

    I think there are so many things we have to take into account, the 2 most important are, Dan Henning was an untouchable in more ways than one, and there is no way the coach who got his first gig in the NFL is going to fire a great friend and confidant of the person that hired him...And two, This is our coaches first Job..

    It all comes back to the starting point, all starting points are different, and I believe our's, was expansion related..We must put that into proper context when projecting our team and player development.
     
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  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There isn't anything wrong with complaining, but when one does so, IMO....they should offer specific constructive suggestions on what alternatives should be considered or course of action followed. Rather than just ranting this team SUCKS, I want a SUPER BOWL, ad nauseam, ad infinitum.
     
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