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Vince Young can playQb a little bit..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 26, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Now to be consistent, you'd have to also look at which defenses he played and whether or not he had 3 great games against crappy defenses and career average games vs the good defenses.

    Point being, he is not a "running back playing qb" if anything I contend that he would be more effective of a Qb if he did run as often as he did in 06 and 07, as why take a outstanding Qb rushers and make him into a decent throwing Qb?

    With Orton's price being set at a #2 with the possibility of becoming a #1 pick, Young moves up to 1a on my personal list of Qb's I'd like to see brought in, with Grossman #2 and Thigpen #3.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They have got to be thinking about someone, or else real soon their gonna have to make some public support statements about Henne, and admit their guilt in the process..
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You also have to look at the fact that we're talking about maybe a third of the reps of those guys that he's ranked up there with. He didn't have a good season. He had the equivalent of a good 5 or 6 game stretch. It COULD be a sign of things to come. It COULD also be an abnormally good 5 or 6 game stretch.

    Derek Anderson had a similar stretch, I think about 8 games, in Cleveland.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    With the lockout no one is going to say much of anything publicly Deej, they planted the seed that someone will be brought in to compete with Henne and that is about it.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thing with Young, like Orton, is his trend is upwards, at least his trend as a passer, as a runner the trend is down by any metric.

    I'm an Orton booster, but doubt Ireland pays a conditional #2 that could turn into a #1, which means Young is about all that will be on the market with a good track record and young enough to have upside, though why they would take a Qb who is outstanding in terms of running the ball to create offense, and make him into a fairly average NFL passer is a testament to how the NFL does business.
     
  6. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    merge
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree with you, an upward trend is a reason to be optimistic.

    But optimistic isn't proven. The guy has proven problems off the field, as well as on it if you count learning the playbook, mastering the offense, working hard in practice, all those things. Do work with that and take that risk I think you need proven performance
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    42 starts should be enough to be "proven" at least at a minimal level, the baseline should be established in terms of play when he going well he should be a 2,000 yd passer with a 1 to 1 Td to it ratio and more then 5 rushing Td, to me that is his level and what he has shown he can/could do in the NFL, anything over that is pure gravy.

    Off the field stuff, eh, 3 yrs old, real issue in my view is 42 career starts but he also has only played 19 games in the past three seasons which, even if he were Bobby Bouchette, would be time for development that he has not had, with improved passing he clearly has learned something but how much is the real question imho?

    Injured every yr for the last 3 is not a good sign.

    De minimis, Daboll could prep Colt McCoy to play, Young would be an upgrade over McCoy.
     
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  9. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Young is by far our best option.
     
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  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Rather have Marc Bulger, mate.
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I'd bring in Bulger and Young.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Those injuries bother me DMike, and his lack of rushing production, if I were a DC if I can have Young throw the ball, or run at unexpected times, I'd much rather have him make decisions in the passing game then creating with his legs.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thing with Bulger, though I think he would be a good fit, is no one has seen him play in a game since mid 2009, and he has no upside to speak of if he succeeds we will ride him for 2 more yrs.

    I'm cautious about Young due to the games missed via injuries, I'm doubly cautious about Bulger as he has missed even more games and his play was not good prior to missing those games, what would we be getting?
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Marc Bulger is the best option. Most painless. All of the options are sh-t at this point so you just go with the most painless from a cost/benefit standpoint. Palmer's not really an option at all. Orton's too expensive for what he is. Vince Young is not as attractive an option as Marc Bulger (or Chad Henne). Donovan McNabb doesn't fit schematically. Alex Smith is going back to the 49ers. The Dolphins already said no to the idea of a younger, unproven guy...and so I doubt Caleb Hanie becomes an option.

    Bulger will make sense to them, it will remind them of the Chad Pennington acquisition. Either way this is not a team that does things how I think they should be done, or really even close, and the fact that they walk into this off season and come out with Brian Daboll, Mike Pouncey, Daniel Thomas, and Marc Bulger competing with Chad Henne...as the great big answer to our offensive dilemmas...I mean really, it doesn't get more simple than that as far as not being close to how I would do things.
     
  15. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the fact we rr still debating young makes me puke
     
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  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We are on Sparano Island JMH, pretty much without Young, if they go with Bulger, if Henne does not win the job we are set back 3 more yrs at Qb..3 yrs...
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I prefer not to be so pessimistic. I think that Miami would have done well to take a QB in this year's draft. That didn't happen. They'll take one in next year's draft. So in essence we've been set back by 1 year, IMO. It didn't have to be that way, it's totally self-inflicted, but that's the way it is.

    And who knows, maybe we get a better QB out of it. And maybe we get a better HC out of it too? Again, who knows?

    Despite some people balking at the very notion of expressing this, it all comes down to the nuts and bolts of who is better than who. I think the Dolphins could have traded up to get Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbert, or taken Ryan Mallett once they traded up to #62. If in five years or whatever, the Dolphins have a QB in hand (whether it be Chad Henne or a guy from the 2012 Draft) that plays better than those guys, especially if he plays better, earlier than those guys...my strategy would have been a bad strategy.

    We'll see how it goes, I'm hoping for the best. There are definitely about six guys that could be available in next year's Draft that I have my eye on as potentially really good quarterbacks. They are seniors Ryan Lindley, Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden, as well as juniors Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley and Landry Jones. That doesn't mean I'm 100 percent on board with all those guys. My only 100 percenters from that crowd are Brandon Weeden, Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley...and Weeden carries the stipulation that I probably wouldn't use a 1st rounder on him. After that my preferences are Ryan Lindley, Landry Jones and Ryan Tannehill...and I look forward to seeing more from those guys in 2011.
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually Ck, that is one of the reasons why whomever they bring in to compete with Henne, who I cheer for will depend on their circumstance, Bulger would be an "eh" he's 34, if he does win the job and is successful..then what? Now if a Young or Orton or even Thigpen wins the job, then we have a Qb future so to speak.

    Head to head though, Henne v Bulger, Henne pretty much has to win that competition unless Bulger can roll the block back 6 seasons.
     
  19. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If Vince Young had trouble playing for Fisher, there is no way he would be able to play for Sparano. Sparano is known for being very rigid and demanding concerning the play of his QB. Part of the problem with Henne is that he plays the position scared. He seems to be afraid to take chances, because he knows Sparano will replace him in a split second. Any QB that plays for a Sparano coached team has to be willing to accept the blame when the offense is ineffective. This takes a QB who is willing to accept responsibility and will not wilt when the pressure from the coaches and teammates is pointed in his direction. Young may have a lot of natural ability on the field but his emotional makeup is not suited to the demands of a Sparano coached team.

    This coming season will provide no answer at QB for the long term future, and the starting QB for the Dolphins in 2012 and beyond is presently playing college football. Perhaps at Stanford, Oklahoma, or Southern Cal. One of the QB'S at these universities will be in Miami after next season, not Vince Young or Henne.
     
  20. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Question I have since I'm not up to par with Young is how efficient is he in the passing game ?.........

    Personally I wouldn't want a QB who's main meal ticket was his running ability. Even though Sparano is focused on building a dominating Ground game to were he'd might be a good fit. But that type of QB doesn't seem to fit as well in the NFL. You need a good armed accurate QB to build on ....even if your focusing on building the ground game.............JMO

    Don't know who will be available as a starter at QB (maybe Orton) but it looks to me as if we will end up bringing in a "filler" this year til we can find a legitimate one hopefully next year.... Who knows maybe Henne will surprise the H out of me.........
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Whether Kyle Orton, Vince Young, Chad Henne or Tyler Thigpen starts at QB or not...the Dolphins' QB of the future is not currently on roster.

    That's why I'm cool with the Marc Bulger thing. It's basically a 1.5 year rental. He beats Henne in 2011, plays however he ends up playing, then plays half of 2012 until...insert one of the 6 QBs I named here...is ready to play.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    In 2010, Vince Young was very efficient in the passing game. The problem is, 2010 was basically a third of a year for Vince Young. He had 182 dropbacks. As an example, Matt Ryan had 616 dropbacks, Drew Brees had 685 dropbacks, and Peyton Manning had 697 dropbacks. All of this only counting the regular season.

    So there has to be a valid question of, did we see a NEW Vince Young, a guy that is getting better year by year and is starting to "get it"...or did we see a guy have a few good games throwing to one of the hottest young receivers in the game in Kenny Britt along with another proven deep threat in Nate Washington, with Chris Johnson scaring the bajesus out of defenses, which helped him rack up a few deep passes that lead to a good QB Rating.

    The answer to that question remains to be seen. Derek Anderson had a glorious 8 game stretch once upon a time (the equivalent of Vince's 180 snaps of glory in 2010). It didn't make him a good long term answer at the position.

    He had a 67 QB Rating in his rookie year, a 71 QB Rating in 2007, didn't really play in 2008, had an 80 QB Rating in 2009, and then he had the good partial-2010.

    As for running, it's not really that much of an issue. This year he only ran 13 times out of his 182 dropbacks. I think that might even be less scrambling than Aaron Rodgers. In 2009 he scrambled more but it was still a very acceptable 10%. It's not really an issue.

    I don't want the guy. The reason I don't want him is he comes with proven baggage, the kind you can point at and say, this is no good...and yet, he doesn't come with PROVEN performance. He's only got the one partial year of good performance, which is really the equivalent of a good 5 or 6 game stretch. He's racked up an 11-8 record (.579) the last three years, but Kerry Collins racked up a 16-14 record (.533) over the same time period, so obviously the Titans have had some pretty good teams and I don't know about this "Vince is just a winner" stuff that you hear. Over that three year period the percentage of his total snaps that were dropbacks (i.e. how often the coaching staff called his number), was about 47%...which is the lowest of all QBs over the time period. In other words, the game plan whenever Vince Young was in the game, the formula for winning the game, was to minimize Vince's impact on the game. So his passing success has to be looked at that way, the Titans trying very hard to make things as easy as possible for him. For instance, only 7 times in his career has he been asked to throw as many as 35 attempts in a game. He's 2-5 when asked to do that.

    I won't bother getting into the off field stuff. At this point I think between the fights at night clubs, partying, suicide threats, on-field temper tantrums, statements from teammates acknowledging that Vince is neither a leader nor a hard worker, multiple benchings, having his Head Coach and owner separately give up on him...let's just take that all as a given.
     
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  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Heh, we'll just have to disagree on that one.


    And start three all over again on some draft pick who has not sat in on a single meeting?

    Nay Sir, nay, by the time some Rook qb learns how to play this game the Defense will have lost the core it found in 2008-09, no time for that stuff.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You deal with the hand that's dealt you. Drew Brees doesn't come available on the market every year you know. And Vince Young is not it.

    And how would the team have lost its defensive core? By 2013 & 2014, Langford is how old? Evidently 35 years old? Since when are guys in their 6th-7th years in the league good as done in this league?
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    His passing has improved greatly over the yrs as in up across the board in every category, Completions, Td to Int, YPA etc.


    -Well, he has stopped running as often as he once did, which imho is a mistake, it made him a more dangerous player for defenses to handle.

    -keep in mind, if the running game is going well the Qb is not asked to do a whole lot, which sort of fits with Young's skills.

    -hope to avoid the stop gap, really hope to avoid one as it means progress has stalled on the offense as more or less you'd have Bulger as the roadblock as the offense, contrary to what some may think, has some weapons in BM, Fasano, Hartline etc, if Bulger has a good season say 20 Td to 10 int's he will be the starter until physically he can no longer get it done which means resources on a Qb just won't be used.

    Now if Young comes in and goes 20 td to 10 int's with 8 rushing Td's, then he will be 28 yrs old and the Dolphins own his NFL contract rights, we could do more things from that point as the tough decision on "who will play Qb" will have been made already, it would be Young.

    Assuming of course either beats out Chad Henne.
     
  26. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Thanks CK

    Looks like he wouldn't be worth gambling on since like you I believe we are looking for a qualified fillin next year and a half.
    Funny you mentioned Collins, I actually thought with a solid O-line and focused on the Ground game that he'd be an interesting fillin. he's still got a good arm and can deliver the long ball, plus the experience to tudor a newbe. But he is something like 38 ..

    Not that crazy about Bulger ........
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Young would be more akin to Mike Vick, Orton would be Brees, and fwiw I'd pay that conditional #2 for him.

    I doubt Ireland would.


    Free Agency and the Salary Cap, that is the downside to taking 2 at one position, if they both work out you have choices to make, and not Langford, how about Sean Smith and Vontae Davis? Wake will be how old?

    No thanks to a rook Qb 3 more yrs is simply not worth it when the core is as good as it is now, Wanny was an idiot overall, he made the right choice giving up 2 #1's for Ricky as that window just does not stay open forever.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not crazy about any of the options. Whether it be Kerry Collins, Marc Bulger, Vince Young, trading a 2nd rounder for Kyle Orton, trading a 1st rounder for Kevin Kolb...it's all crap.

    I'm not able to bring myself to espouse a "suck for Luck" campaign but it's also hard not to view the Dolphins' upcoming season with some cynicism. What should have been a solid all-around team with limitations due to quarterback, wasn't playing like a solid all around-team at the end of the year when it couldn't beat the likes of the Browns, Bills or Lions, and then got absolutely blown to pieces by the Patriots. So it's difficult to project direction on this team. They have pieces, I like the pieces they have. I don't think they're great pieces, they're not one of the most talented teams in the NFL. If I could be sure of the teams mindset and coaching, and believed they had a promising quarterback, I might even be tempted to put this team in the championship hunt.

    If wishes were fishes.

    So no matter what we do at the QB position there's a healthy chance that this team goes belly-up in 2011...the kind of belly-up that gets us a high draft pick and a shot at an actual quarterback. With Marc Bulger I think you're playing fast and loose. There's a chance, an actual chance, that Bulger is the next in a long line of veteran QBs that have comeback seasons with new teams. This is usually very short-lived, but it happens. If you focus on adding to the defense in free agency, to take a defense that pretended to be a top 5 unit, and make it an actual, true blue, turbo charged, lean and mean top 5 unit, and then Marc Bulger DOES have a magical comeback season left in him...heck we could be in the AFC Championship Game just like the Jets were. Who knows? Chances are stronger that we go belly up, but under those circumstances actually competing for something is possible.

    On the other hand what good is that going to do? This is where the cynicism sets in. The team isn't going to win a championship in 2011, and they won't win one in the future until they have a legitimate quarterback. They need to draft one or otherwise acquire a young one that is coming into his own, in order to have the kind of solid foundation that helps you build a winner. If you think Kevin Kolb, Vince Young or Kyle Orton are exactly that young guy to acquire and build your team off, all the power to ya, I don't agree. Artificially inflating Miami's record in 2011 while knowing you're not going to win it all...well, I know the Herm Edwards quote and I'm not a "suck for Luck" guy but I am a cynic and I do realize the very real consequence of that which is worst draft position and it making it very costly to try and pull in the QB you want. Hell, 7 spots of draft position supposedly cost us the QB that the staff REALLY wanted (Jake Locker), and only 3 spots of draft position cost us the guy they were thinking of taking as a runner-up (Ponder). Knowing that, it's hard not to be a cynic.

    Not that I wanted Locker. I'd have been downright depressed if we'd managed to take him.
     
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  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Let me stop you right here. You think Kyle Orton is the next Drew Brees?

    Ok. Yeah, we're gonna disagree on this whole QB thing.

    You COULD be right about Vince Young, but I'm not sure Vince has had the life-changing experience (e.g. federal prison) that Michael Vick had that was necessary to get Vick to turn it all around.
     
  30. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Thanks pappy

    I guess thats the million dollar question, can one of these guys have the good year ? But we're still stuck with having to use the word "if".......I guess it will come down to the coaching staffs evaluation which hasn't impressed me going into its 4th year and leaves us who think...think ...Henne will never be the man a little uneasy......



    Don't really think letting Young loose to run is a good approach. Eventually you are going to have to pay with an injury and we'd be behind the 8-ball again with Henne on the bench....But if he has a good accurate arm that running ability is definitely a plus...
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    "Is"?

    Err, no, how about his narrative is similar and the reasons why he would move along to another team is also similar, even down to Orton Qbing a bad Denver team the way Brees Qb'd a Chargers team that went 2-9 in his starts.



    Eh, you just never know, especially with attitude/behavior issues, which per Ireland's "you have to know what you are getting" mantra in that interview means Mallett AND Young are off of the menu, Mallett we know that for certain, with Young it is far more likely that Ireland won't make an offer for him.

    Nice, safe, Marc Bulger is far more this regimes' style, which makes me a huge Chad Henne fan if it plays out in that manner, Henne playing well is the one "out" of this situation, but also the least likely outcome based on Trends and Comparison, it could happen easily, or Henne could fold like a cheap suit on MNF to open the yr.

    6 intra AFC games to start the season, which pretty much makes it our season in terms of the playoffs.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe sometimes you take away or add to, when your making a point about an athletes performance, for example, ive seen you subtract certain runs to come up with a more logical YPC, to make a point..I agree with that.

    I did the same thing with Henne and the position when looking at every snap that the player took before the player got benched.. If you took away some things that were not his fault, and added a few that put on the money, to no avail, just logical scenarios, your looking at a Qb with a 95 to 100 QBR thru 10 games..

    Does a GM just look at the win loss column when projecting his talent for the following year, hell no..
     
  33. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Going with Young solves nothing, cept giving me gas
     
  34. finagain

    finagain New Member

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    Bulger is the best option IF you want to be 7-9 for the next three years..

    I'm not going to rehash all of my thoughts on VY (check the other threads for lots of info), but just to summarize--his passing has improved every year, highlighted by this most recent one--and trust me, his performance was not only because of the players around him (remember that Nate Washington couldn't even start in Pitt). Vince made a lot of really impressive reads and throws this year.

    His decrease in rushing is a tiny worrisome, but having watched the games, the decrease is due much more to coaching/mentality than skills. He still has the speed etc, but the coaches/media have convinced him to stay in the pocket and not risk being hurt. Along the same lines, he now often slides or gets OB instead of trying to beat defenders in front of him.

    ..which leads to injuries--also a tiny worrisome but a little overblown in my mind. His only major injury was his thumb this year, and that was a complete fluke (hit a helmet on a follow-through from a deep pass). Plus, no telling how serious it really was since he and Fisher fought after the game (Vince apparently didn't think it was bad enough to hold him out of rest of the game)

    The mental stuff is also way overblown in my mind (see my other posts for why). Vince isn't a criminal and his teammates still supported him--he just didn't get along with Fisher (and it was a 2-way street trust me).

    That said, someone touched on my main worry with him--Sparano. At this point in his career, the last thing Vince needs is another coach who won't support him. That does NOT mean that the coach can't push him, but in the end, that coach needs to have his back and instill full confidence in him. Fisher never wanted him there and was undemrining every chance he could--that is not a good environment for a guy who came out of college as a "project qb".
     
  35. finagain

    finagain New Member

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    CK, the rest of your comments here were legit concerns (like the sample size--though i still disagree), but you gotta stop posting the above stuff. They're flat-out wrong / bad arguments.

    I've already argued your win-loss comparison in another thread, but just to summarize--Since 2006 (Vince's 1st year, when Collins was the incumbent...why would you randomly start in 08?), Vince is 30-17 as starter of the team, Collins is 15-17. 13 of Collins' wins came in '08 when Vince won the only real game he started (playing the last game with the backups doesn't count). In the other seasons you had: Collins, 0-3, 0-0, 0-6, 2-5 and then Vince, 8-5, 10-6, 8-2, 4-4, respectively. You cannot possibly continue to argue that there records are similar.
    Again, Collins' wins came from ONE year (conveniently the first year of your "study"), when Vince DIDN'T GET TO PLAY with that team. With a changed team in the next year, Collins started 0-6...

    The 47%--A) Fisher is a notoriously conservative playcaller (as discussed in another thread) whose strategy is run, run, run and play D. This is the main reason Titan fans wanted him gone, and why he is gone. B) Fisher hated Vince. Playcalling comes from the coach. The coach isn't going to call plays for someone he hates and wants to see fail. C) They had Chris Johnson. Of course he's gonna get the ball. D) If they were really minimizing his impact, then why the HUGE difference in wins with/without him (the full numbers, not your conveniently selected ones)?

    As for the other stuff:
    Fight, not fightS at a night club--and is that really a big deal? Sure, not the most mature, but who cares? If you think NFL players don't go to strip clubs etc then you're crazy. At least it was the offseason, and it was really just a scuffle (no weapons either).
    Partying--really? Don't sign a guy bc he parties (or partied)? He was like 23 years old. Did you party when you were 23? It's fairly common. And again in the offseason.
    Suicide threat--refuted by everyone involved. Fisher (again--notice the theme developing) called the cops "out of concern". Vince had a legit "alibi" for where he was, etc etc.
    Teammates speaking out against him--Who? Where? When? All the player quotes I've seen have spoken out on Vince's side of the whole deal. CJ has been the most vocal (he was very close to Vince throughout--Titan fans were worried about the effect of Vince's ordeal on CJ), Britt went so far as to get a 10k fine for writing a "10" on his towel in a game. Scaife got demoted/benched for calling out Fisher / supporting Vince. Bulluck (now with the Giants) called out Fisher and basically said that Fisher treated VY like crap for no reason. And there have certainly been others as well..
    Multiple benchings-- Fisher's decision. What do you think led to the fight? Benchings aren't necessarily good decisions either. In '09, the owner had to force Vince into the lineup after an 0-6 start, capped off by a 59-0 drubbing to the Pats. Despite that -7 yard performance from Collins, Fisher STILL wasn't going to switch QBs. Does that sound rational to you? (especially considering the 2nd string qb had one of the top win-loss %s in the league)
    Finally, the owner and coach did NOT "separately" give up on him. The owner supported Vince until after the season (with Fisher still coach), Fisher and his crew met with the owner several times and convinced him to get rid of Vince. This is widely publicized. Not making it up. Then, about a month or so later, Fisher was out. After the whole organization had dumped vince, do you really think it would have worked out to bring him back? Trust was the issue in the first place, and it would have been 10-times worse after publicly dumping him.
     
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  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, tagamet or pepcid?
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nah, we stand or fall on the running game and defense this yr, anything that comes in the passing game is a bonus.


    That would require a real breakdown of his 8 starts this past season, what I noticed about his game, in the limited bits I have seen, is he will throw into tight windows and make plays, but then again limited time watching him.

    That is his edge, otherwise he looks like a 2k passing yd/15 Td type of Qb.

    He did injure his knee in 08 which is how Collins got to start, this after he the team went 10-6 the previous yr with Young tossing more Int's then Td's, it was his second yr as a starter which makes Fishers' approach to him even odder.

    Sort of, Kevin Mawae did not think highly of Young's game prep.

    Well, Brian Daboll did a good job with Seneca Wallace and Colt McCoy, and Sparano is hands off towards his coordinators (usually) so to me that really makes Young's issue the same as Dante Culpeppers', does he believe he is a sure fire starter and he will only go where he is assured of being a Starter, or will he humble himself and compete for the job with Chad Henne?

    That is my concern with Young, some cats who were successful early in their careers just feel entitled to be starters, to go into where ever as the "starter" and that ego won't let them even consider that maybe they should have to earn it, to me that is the secret to Vick's turnaround in Philly, he was happy to be there and to compete and to do whatever was asked of him, if Young takes that approach I could see him in Miami, if not then he won't be looked at..not a chance, not in Miami.

    I agree with that approach BTW, Young maybe feels he is a two time pro bowlers and rookie of the yr and what have you, that don't mean jack in Sparano's Miami, you earn everything, which would be somewhat new for Vince imho.
     
  38. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    prevacid- prescription strength
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Then I clearly don't agree with what you're "taking away". And the problem with that style of analysis is, you have to do it to everyone else. Ever. In the history of the NFL. Because the NFL and it's history are the reason we're able to put these statistics into context, the reason we know what is good and what is bad. When you start data mining like that, you lose the context, and suddenly your number becomes...just a number.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    regardless of the number, it still has to be done when your evaluating talent for a pending decision..
     

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