A very subjective question as it is opinion based, but to me it is ripe for a good discussion. What I look for in a Qb: -Accurate, they do not need a big arm, but they should be able to make the throws they should hit on. -Tough, a Qb is going to hit, I don't like the guys who play scared of being whacked or has a calf issue that just sidelines them for weeks and weeks, -Mobile, nothing is more frustrating for a Defense, or helpful to an offense, then a Qb who can pick up a first down on 3rd and 7 or longer, everyone is covered but the Qb just moves the chains, love that in a Qb. -A little cocky, love a Qb who can give the Marino like "I know I can play!" response to questions and don't like the "gosh, if I work hard enough, and say the right things, I'm good enough and smart enough and dog gone it, people on the team like me" types of responses. The Qb is the Captain of the Offense and they should act like it. -Technically proficient, this one drives me nutz, it is so simple to execute a play fake properly, it is so simple to throw a good screen pass, it is so simple not to throw a ball late to the middle of the field area, it is so simple to know the play before coming onto the field that it should not take a TO due "seeing something in the Defense they didn't like the look of".
Must be a leader. I can't think of one good QB that wasn't a leader. Brian Griese was the only one that was close, but even then he was only average.
Well, that is one the traits that we can never really hone in on, the conversations and what happens in a huddle and on the sidelines and at practices we just don't have access to which Qb is a leader and which is not.
According to Dolphin fans, leaders are guys who run around the field shouting like an idiot regardless of what just happened.
He must be drafted in 1983. He must wear #13. He must have come out of Pittsburgh. He must be the last QB taken in that round. And his last name must be Marino.
Well Elway was as quite as anyone on the sideline, Pennington was a jack in the box of positivity, different styles I'd guess. Dolphins fans have focused their mental illnesses on the Qb position now that Marshall was traded for, I hope they land a Vet Qb who has those traits that I listed or the forums will be back and forth over the Qb for the next 4 yrs.
5 traits? I just need one really... Do I feel confident that my QB can lead us to a score with the game on the line? You could say all 5 of those traits are wrapped up into that in various ways, but that's what it boils down to. If the team can look at the QB in the huddle and believe he's going to lead them to the score, then he commands respect and raises the game of everyone else in 'do or die' time. If the opposing team feels confident giving the ball back to you with timeouts and 2 minutes to go, you don't have a quarterback in my opinion.
Without reading the posts before I respond... First and foremost is leadership. Sure teams have "Captains" left and right, but on the field there is no doubt the QB is THE leader of that offense. When those 11 guys are in the huddle and 10 of them are looking into the QB's eyes as he's calling the plays, those 10 other guys have to know it's the rigt call and that he (the QB) is GOING to make the play happen. They MUST have faith and confidence in him and that only comes when you have a strong leader. Desire--Along with leadership, your QB MUST have that uncanning will and desire to win. He must be able to stare at any situation before him and be determined to make the play...gain the yardage...get the first down...complete that pass...get in the endzone. One of the greatest attributes Dan Marino possessed was his desire. You just saw the burning determination in his eyes every time he came up to the line of scrimmage. You knew when the ball was snapped, Marino was NOT going to be denied. Maturity--This goes hand in hand with leadership. No matter the raw God given talents your QB possesses, if he doesn't have the maturity to control his emotions and control the emotions of his teammates, the offense will look like nothing more than a bunch of kids playing sandlot football. Control--It doesn't matter if your QB has the rocket arm of Marino or Elway or the spaghetti arm of Pennington, he MUST be able to control each pass play. Marino and Elway were fortunate enough to have a cannon of an arm and the gifts of remarkable receivers that ran precision routes so they could launch the ball a mile down the field, but they also possessed the control to not force a bad situation. Humility--No matter how great a QB is, there is always more he can learn, if not about the game, then about himself. A QB should never think he is greater than the game...greater than his team. He's an important part of the team, but football is still ultimately a TEAM sport.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post here, I have to disagree with you. Griese never put up gigantic numbers...his career stats are modest at best, but one of the traits about griese that made him a Hall of Famer was his strength of leadership. Don't forget, it was Bob Griese that led the Miami Dolphins to an unprecedented 3 Super Bowl appearances in a row, winning two of them. It was Bob Greise, who in the 72 season after going down with a broken leg and who sat behind Earl Morrell for the first half of the Super Bowl, that came out to start the second half and led the Dolphins to their perfect season. Other than Don Shula, no other Dolphin epitomzed strength of leadership like Bob Griese...even more so than Marino.
In no particular order: -Arm Strength: I'm not asking for a cannon (though that would be nice). Just an arm strong enough to take advantage of a deep threat receiver. -Accuracy: Does this really need to be explained? -Mobility: This I can glance over, but I would like a QB that can make something out of nothing and avoid the sack. -Intelligence: Self-Explanatory. -Heart: See above.
Wel, the interesting thing about that is the #1 quality in order to have Leadership is Character. What that is in a football context..IDK, but without Character you cannot be a leader, you can be a talker but not a Leader.
1. Command 2. Football IQ 3. Accuracy 4. Toughness - mental & physical 5. Improvisational ability I put command instead of leadership ability. You can be a leader by example, like Barry Sanders, or presumably based on what we know, Chad Henne. I want my QB to be in command of the huddle. He's in charge of the team, as he goes they go. I want him to be like a Peyton Manning and know everything that's going on at all times or like Dan Marino and get in a receiver or lineman's face when they mess up, but to be able to help correct it so it doesn't happen again. Football IQ. The guy doesn't have to be a genius off the field...for example Ben Roethlisberger...but I want him to be aware of when to take risks, when to check down, when to throw it away, when to gut it up into the muck to get a crucial first down, etc. I want the QB to have a mastery of the playbook and be able to go back and forth with coaches on what playes he likes/dislikes in particular situations. A perfect example, if I were Chad Henne, I'd be pissed when they call a Wildcat play on 3rd and 6, I'd want to change the play to something I know I would have control over in getting that first down, not standing out as a receiver or sipping Gatorade on the sidelines for a play. Accuracy's pretty self explanatory. As padre eluded to, the QB is going to get hit. I want him to be able to take it. I also want him to handle the criticism after a loss and handle the lauding from the media after a win. Improvisational ability. I think this is sort of a mix between pocket mobility and extending the play. He doesn't have to be Mike Vick and be able to take a scramble 40 yards to the house, but I want my QB to be able to move in or out of the pocket to be able to produce the play he wants. Think Aaron Rodgers.
Well, you're absolutely right, without the right character you can't be an effective leader. Since we're on the topics of QB's, when you look at Marino, Montana, Elway, Kelly, Aikman, they all possessed the character that made them great leaders on the field. On the flip side of the coin...not having character, Leinart, Roethlesberger, Vick...you may have good talent and may win games, even a championship, but that still doesn't make you an effective leader. If you want to see what kind of character a player truly posssesses? Take a look at him off the field. Does he exercise poor judgement and draw undue criticism towards himself or his team? Look at the list of QB's I listed. Those with strong character didn't and those without character did.
I mean two things that always have to be there would be uncanny accuracy and quick mental processing. I guess a third would have to be a threatening feel for reading the defense pre-snap and developing a plan for where to go with the football. You also like a guy to be able to feel the rush without taking his eyes down. And if I had to pick a fifth...I guess I'd say quick release, hard trigger. Sometimes that really is the way you stay fractions of a second ahead of the defense, going from 0 to 60 mph in the blink of an eye.
I have two completely different answers for this based on at what point we are considering the qb. For a qb coming out of college: 1. Leadership - To me stuff like toughness, football acumen, and huddle command falls under this category so I won't specifically state them. My QB cannot be a diva of any sort. 2. Accuracy 3. TD/INT ratio - It's a measuring stick as to how well your qb is finishing drives and taking care of the ball/making intelligent decisions. 4. Experience - Rare is it that a great NFL did not play at least 30 games in college. 22 is the absolute minimum. 5. Did they play in a pro style offense in college? - So few great QB's played in any kind of gimmick offense you can count them on your hands. Past brees, Pennington, Rodgers who all played in true spread offenses (and pretty much took three full years to develop) just about every good qb in recent memory came from a program that was primarily using a pro style system. I especially do not want QB's trained in using their legs; I want a qb trained to make decisions with their mind not their feet. They can be dumb as a stump but if they know when to get that ball out and where to put it, we good. It seems like certain traits are ingrained in QB's if you have played within the same system for a long time and they take forever to break. In a pro qb that comes available via FA or trade it's a little different: 1. Leadership 2. Accuracy 3. Why are they available? - Contractual demands? Doesn't get along with teammates? Good QB's are so hard to find that it's rare to see them come available so when one does come available you have to wonder what's up. 4. What kind of upside do they have? - Is this a young QB who hasn't really been given a chance behind a veteran starter like a Matt Hasselbeck was never getting a chance behind Favre in his prime or is this a guy at the tail end of his career? Is it a veteran qb who has changed how be plays or become a better student of the game like Rich Gannon transitioned from a guy who wanted to make plays with his feet to a nerd who learned everything about opposing defenses late in his career. An old dog can learn new tricks but I have to see glimpses of it beforehand. 5. What kind of win/loss record are they sporting as a pro? Is this a plYer coming from a losing environment? TD/INT ratio?
The thing to note is that they never all look the same. You have to have a dynamic view of quarterbacks. You have to look at the tools in their toolbox and they may not have this tool but they make up for it with this one, etc. Getting the job done is getting the job done. There are definitely some common traits, things to strive for...but it's like Bill Parcells says about the running back position, which clearly is the one position that has mystified him his entire career. There have been guys that get the job done in all different shapes and all different sizes with all different styles, and so the only thing you can really look at is if they're getting the job done. And that's why he has trouble getting with the program on drafting one in the 1st round, because getting the job done in college is never like getting the job done in the pros, and he never seems to know a guy's going to get the job done until he actually does it. The quarterback position is a lot like that, in that consistency is such a priority that you really do need to rely on body of work (stats) to evaluate what you've got and keep it in perspective. But then there's the catch 22 that stats in college don't translate to pro, obviously. That's one thing that makes it a tough position to evaluate.
My list: Accuracy: self explanatory Leadership: The ability to inspire belief from your team. This often also incorporates character. Athleticism: Some have listed mobility, but that's not what I mean. Athleticism is primarily about staying in balance above your hips while moving. Marino had it in his ability to stay balanced as he slid in the pocket. Brady has it in his ability to throw accurately while moving in any direction. I can't think of a great QB who didn't have this trait. It's the difference between the guy who looks great in shorts at the combine or against lesser athletes in college, but busts in the NFL. Intelligence: By this I mean football IQ. Some might call it instinct or "IT". I often refer to it as "anticipation" as well. It's basically a feel for how a play develops and where the openings will be. Some refer to this as processing speed, but IMO the guys with great processing speed are mostly just using their instinct to ignore many of the calculations a less instinctual QB must go through. Ability to extend the play: This one is a recent addition and I think it's more than mobility. I think the way the rules have developed regarding WRs, the defenses have no choice but to try to get pressure on the QB quick. Offenses have gone to quick passes, but reality is that too often things don't go as planned. You need a QB that can buy a little time. This incorporates the athleticism I spoke of earlier. Marino and Brady were both able to extend plays without much mobility. Big Ben is able to extend the plays without mobility, but rather by his size. Aaron Rodgers is an example of a QB who does use mobility to extend plays. The point is that this ability is broader than just mobility. If I am looking for a franchise QB then I want him to be elite in at least one of those categories, probably two. If he isn't elite in any of those areas then he might be a guy you can win with given a good enough team. Basically the guy who isn't why you lose, but also isn't carrying your team to victory.
That seems to limit your pool of possible QBs to about 10 college programs. If you're going to draft a QB from today's college pool then you better be able to evaluate the skills of QBs coming from different systems.
Not really. It doesnt need to to be a complete pro style system. Im open to offenses that have elements of the spread; since just about every college offense does, I think you have to be). Basically what I am looking for is a QB that comes from a program that teaches him how to read defenses , forces him to make the necessary progressions and how to react mentally to what the defense presents him. When you deal with some of these gimmick systems they teach none of that and you get a QB who is completely unprepared for the pro's mentally and that is where the NFL game is won and lost. I dont want a Tebow or a Cam Newton that comes from an offense that forces a QB to create with his feet and think like a running back in many ways. That just holds zero appeal to me and its a physical reaction rather then a mental one.
IMO that criteria is too limiting. I believe in evaluating the QB and then developing the skills he has. I see guys like Bradford or Gabbert as the model for the future in terms of draft evaluation. Most successful programs will have a ton of spread b/c it provides too many advantages for the teams with superior athletes. There is almost no system that doesn't have some level of progression and most QBs have the coaches making the adjustments from the sidelines after the D presents. So if you're going to be successful in the draft then you better be able to evaluate the QBs regardless of what system they were in.
Mostly true, save for the bolded portion as the Aikman's, Marinos and other 80's and 90's era Qb's did have to live with the reality of the internet, they could have done just as much dirt prior to the advent of cell phone cameras and TMZ and PFT to post the pictures of "star Qb so and so drunk as hell at a club", they may have done even more stuff that just was known locally but not nationally.
Exactly, the one metric that is predictive for a Back coming out of college is 5.0 ypc avg, that is indicative of an ability to do it in the pros, not the final yard stick, but a solid barometer of what to expect. Yep, I occasionally field questions about whether there are any CFL Qb's who can play in the NFL and even the most productive of CFL Qb's may, or may not, be able to make that jump as the Tedford style of offense was prevalent in the CFL for over a decade which makes them a basal level NFL prospect to begin with, but then a Flutie or Garcia emerges and can make that jump to the NFL. You just do not know who will and who won't.
1. Slightly labotomized 2. Marketability 3. Speaks Spanish, he's in Miami after all (see marketability) 4. Homosexual, he's in Miami after all (see marketability) 5. No computer savvy, no dong sexting (see marketability) Crap! we already missed out...
The types of offenses I'm referring to are Gus Malzahan's system down in Auburn, Mack Brown's system at Texas (specifically during the Young era), or Urban Meyer's offense. These are systems that ask the qb to create too much with their feet and IMO that sets them back years when they get to the pro's and they are no longer a superior athlete but instead merely equal. A good college qb prospect can already get in to those third and fourth reads and has a good pocket presence. It's one thing if the qb runs to buy time or elude pressure. Its completely different when the qb gets to his second read and takes off. That's where I find out what type of qb I'm dealing with. If the qb is easily confused by a defense to the point that he struggles so much past the second read, his learning curve as a pro passer will be significant as the ability to decipher defenses quicker becomes more important. I don't want a QB who wants to be a track star. I want a QB who is a mental olympian like a Manning, Marino, Brady or a Montana. You just can't find QB's of that highest caliber who are runners. They don't exist and never really have. I evaluate a qb more by their decision making and mental ability then I do by their physical ability because to me their physical ability besides arm strength, footwork/mechanics and accuracy doesn't really matter a whole lot
That's valid Bro, to me though, a young Qb who can run can help their team as long as they also develop as a passer. The running wins them the starting gig, the passing allows them to stay as the starter, that imho is were McNabb fell down, and where Cunningham shined, once that ultra athletic ability goes down a notch or three, if the Qb does not have a PhD in reading defenses they are D-O-N-E. No need to rehash the Young discussion suffice it to say he improved as a passer and stopped running as much, he lacks some of the very 5 traits that I listed and I'll acknowledge that as well. I think a sub category should be "consistently good in the 4th qtr" that is what seperates the compilers vs the winners, 4:00 left in the game, the Qb has to shine, has to, or your team is not going anywhere.
My 5 1. Physical ability - Arm strength has to be good enough, like strong but has to be able to throw the out to keep the defense from sucking in to the middle. accuracy is also partially physical. 2. Mental/visiual Acuity - has to be able to see, process and react in a snap. (This is where IMO Henne has the most to prove, this where teh pro and college game are the most diff and takes time) but intelligence drives the mental acuity. Accuaracy is also a component of mental ability. 3. has to be forgetfull - has to learn from but not lose the swagger or confidence from a mistake. Has to be able to let the bad go and continue top play aggressively 4. has to be tough - cant whine about getting hit and cant ave deer in headlights look 5. has to earn trust - has to demand respect - 2nd area Henne has to work on, but this offseason could go a long way but how he does here could be the tell tale of how he fares. Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Roeth all have all 5 and that is why they are great
My 5 in order... 1. Ability to make the reads. This is in my mind the biggest difference maker. A QB that can read a D knows where he's going to go with the ball, when he's going to do it, where the pressure is coming from, and gives him the ability to adapt to all of the above. Drew Brees has fairly modest arm strength (though he's very accurate), same with manning...but both can read the defense like no other. My #1 by far. 2. Accuracy. Accuracy can make up for mediocre arm strength..that's been proven time and time again. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers were all criticized for having only decent arm strength when they were drafted. Yet all are accurate. Accuracy leads to completions, leads to your offense doing what it wants. While arm strength is helpful, it's overrated IMO. It'd take a guy who can hit a receiver 20 yards out instride, over a guy that can throw a 60 yard bomb that hangs any day of the week. 3. Maturity. I don't want diva, problem child QB's leading my team. 4. Ability to sense pressure. I don't care if a QB has wheels, or if he's slow. I just need a guy who can sense the pressure and step up in the pocket when necessary. 5. Physical ability. Once again, this is last on my list. Physical ability can make up for some mediocre mechanics and such, but it's just not as important as the above IMO. One things for sure though..you have to be pretty well rounded to be an elite QB.
you got some hope for Henne then?..He fits that skillset from the pocket, if he could get the leadership stuff down and just take control, we might be OK..
I've always had hope for Henne. I just liked Mallett too. Until you have a proven answer at QB, it never hurts to continue drafting the position
Straight up though B14, Daniel Thomas made far more sense for us then Ryan Mallet, I liked Mallet however the collective "Wisdom" of the NFL decreed he is best suited as a #3 Qb in New England, with teams starving for Qb talent there were what..70 players taken ahead of him? I like an underdog makes good story as much as the next fan however we needed a running back in the worst way, a Qb who may not play a down in 2011 made no sense for us.
I was talking about Brian, not Bob Griese. Brian fail big time as a leader, however he was a pretty good player outside of that. The knock on Brian coming out of Michigan was his leadership skills and he proved how poor he was at that skill in Denver and took a lot of media hits plus a few players, like Shannon Sharpe took shots at him. Bob was a great leader, average player, but great leader.
Henne, Mallett, you do like that kind of QB..You know who the best is, purely from the pocket?..Brady..The offense is an extension of his right arm, usually from a stationary position..effortless.. One thing I like about Henne...when he throws the football, it is effortless..
Rumors of drug use and immaturity will absolutely kill a prospects draftable status. Ryan Leaf has volumes of immaturity issues, the Chargers ignored the obvious and then paid in spades for their mistake. Whether or not Mallet suffers from immaturity or drug problems will be answered in New England.
And there is a reality, the Patriots can afford to spend a high #3 pick on a player very unlikely to do anything but play in the 4th qtr of the last preseason game in 2011, if he pans out fine, if not, that is fine as well, the Dolphins organization had no such luxury. Which is a part of the reason why Jeff Ireland is so important to being competitive, he can find oddball players who can help to close that gap, or at least keep it from growing to wide.
Honestly, I can understand both sides of the argument here. Nothing is more important then a QB but I think Thomas was a safer pick and we needed a back badly. That Mallett went to NE looks different then it appears...they had a million picks and could afford to take a shot in the dark. Plus you have to wonder at what point we may have tried to move in to round 3 for Mallett using our fourth and other picks? Could NE have done that to prevent that from happening? If you're NE have to know that Miami, Buffalo and Oakland were looking at QB's and it makes sense to force conference and division rivals to give up significant assets down the road should Mallett pan out You know I love those pocket qb's deej. Id rather run through a 100 pocket qb's that suck to find one that really gets it because when they do...you get a Brady or a Manning. Those are the guys that make the championship games.
1. Football IQ (the ablility to read a defense and change plays at the LOS is invaluable) 2. Accuracy (doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't put it where it needs to be) 3. Pocket Awareness (a QB doesn't have to be a running threat, just move good in the pocket and feel pressure) 4. Work Ethic (you dont just get trust, leadership, or command of the team. You earn it with hard work) 5. Moxy (your QB has to believe he is the best player in the NFL, he can make any throw, and will never lose)
