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Phins Not Quite Sold On Cam Wake?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Southbeach, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...old-when-it-comes-to-wake?module=HP_headlines

    I read many articles on what Ross, Ireland, and Sparano have to say. I discount most of them as saying nothing or, what they are supposed to say. This one is different.

    I know that Wake is 29. I also know that he had a great year for us, played his heart out, and is making next to nothing (4years for $2.3M). Sparano said that he could regress if he doesn't do this or that, which is not really taking a shot at Cam. However, why say anything remotely resembling a negative at one of your two best players? What is the point?

    Is it because Cam is looking for more money, which he has already earned? I just don't get it.
     
  2. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Omar Kelly strikes again. :pity:

    This is an opinion piece masquerading as inside information. Kelly has been complaining forever about Wake versus the run. In fact, he's been complaining about both starting OLBs, Wake and Misi, versus the run. He's a one-dimensional thinker. Reading his opinion pieces, one gets the feeling Kelly either wouldn't have signed Wake to begin with, or would have cut him after 2009's training camp.

    One thing he is right about, though, is the need for additional pass rushers. But this is indirectly a shot at Koa Misi, who Kelly infamously got butthurt (for lack of a better term) over on Twitter.
     
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  3. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    The Dolphins are just testing the market for Wake. If Wakes agent makes outrageous contract demands then the Dolphins needs to know Wake's value on the market.
     
  4. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    According to PFF, Misi was the #2 OLB, playing a 3-4, and Wake was #11 vs the run. If this is on Omar, he should find something else to write about or, STFU.
     
  5. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Wake has two more years on his contract, and cannot test the market. I'm just saying that we should pay the guy for what he did, which was FANtastic.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    To me this just sounded like one of those "make sure you keep working hard" statements to a player they can't monitor. Wake has always been driven by the doubters and now he's listed among the top 100 and getting accolades so it's reasonable to worry that he could be a little less driven now.
     
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  7. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    To make a comparison, Solia was a waste of space for a few years, was suspended twice, and not a starter until the second game of last season. We are willing to pay him $12M for this coming year because he had a VG year, and finding a NT is not easy.

    Wake will be making around 5% of that this season. Anyone here who would take Solia over Wake?
     
  8. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    If I was making roughly what a ST's guy was, after a Pro Bowl season, driven is not a question.
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Wake was making about what a 2nd round pick would make. He signed a 4 year contract (IIRC) and has two seasons left. Generally you have to play about 3 years of that before you get to renegotiate or 4 years until you're a FA. I see no problem with that system. Sure, sometimes a player will out play his contract and sometimes he will under play the contract (more often), but it doesn't make sense for a player to renegotiate after one good season and the team can't get the guaranteed money back after a poor season.
     
  10. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    The system is fine but, there are exceptions. Wake is one, and IMO should be rewarded. I'm not just spending other people's money, I spend my own (just missing zeros) on people who work for me.
     
  11. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And if they were to pay him big now and he tears an ACL one day one of training camp? I'm fine with waiting and seeing if Cameron Wake can duplicate or better his 2010 season this year before they pay the man. It's not like Wake himself has come out and demanded more money or threatened to holdout. Though, regardless of Wake's play, a 3rd OLB like Antwan Barnes or Manny Lawson would be nice. I've always liked Mario Addison of Troy as an UDFA.
     
  12. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    In sports you see too many players who have one great year and then disappear either b/c they don't continue to try as hard, are figured out by opponents or a just lost to injury to reward players after just one year.
     
  13. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Wake has been talking about getting more money, as he should.
     
  14. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    You mean like Solia getting $12M?
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Difference is Solia was a free agent and we had to pay him that to keep him, and that $12M is just if they cant work out a long term deal also. I highly doubt if Cam was a FA we would let him walk rather then paying him a good amount.
     
  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You realize that's a franchise tag right? That's apples to oranges when compared to any long-term, negotiated contract. His situation and franchise salary will have no bearing on Wake's renegotiation attempts.
     
  17. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Are you saying that the FO should only pay players when they absolutely have to?
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    No. But what im saying is, when you have a guy that has only produced one season, you dont shell out money, just cause. Now if you have a guy that produced one season, and hes eligible for free agency, and you think that guy will continue to produce, then yes, you pay him.
     
  19. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Soliai and Wake both had one good year. Although their contracts differ in one being expired, and the other not, their one year play does not. Compare their play, and tell me Solia is better. Apples on one side, oranges on the other.
     
  20. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    IF you had to pick between Soliai and Wake, as a GM, who would it be?
     
  21. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Why would I have to choose?
     
  22. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It would be folly to reward players after one good year if you didn't have to b/c unlike most businesses sports has a high percentage of players that stop performing after one year.

    And the Soliai example is particularly irrelevant b/c if they weren't in a lockout situation they would have been working towards a negotiated deal and will probably still do that when the lockout ends. The only part that does compare is that Soliai played under his contract until he came up for free agency and then will either get a new higher contract or will get paid under the franchise tag. The FO had to decide whether to use the tag on a player that had only had one good year considering the player's age and position. When Wake reaches that point they will do the same or if he's had two good years they might then renegotiate one year early. They couldn't do that with Soliai b/c he hadn't performed that well after three years.
     
  24. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    All i know is that if we let him go ive lost all faith in our Front Office because without him we literally have no pass rush.
     
  25. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    We have to disagree here Raf. Soliai sucked until last year. Wake was good in 09, and great in 10. IMO, there is a difference and, should matter to the FO.
     
  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    That's not really at issue here. He's completed two years of a four year deal. He was a very part-time player his first season in what everybody knew was a developmental year. Basically the team took the gamble that he would develop and was willing to pay more than he deserved in year 1 based on potential. They were right and will now get two or three of years (hopefully) of above pay production. Then Wake will get his big deal here or elsewhere. Due to his age at that point (over 30) he'll probably be paid right for a couple of years and then be over paid relative to production for a couple of years at the end of that contract.
     
  27. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't doubt you, but do you have a link for that? I've not seen it. And even if he's been talking, I highly doubt he'd be the type to holdout for more given that he's only had 1 good season. He, if anyone, knows just how hard you have to work and continue to work to make it.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    BS article...Irish is not stupid, he found the stud, the premiere pass rusher in the game, that's his signature player that he found out of nowhere, you don't think hes gonna let him go do you, or criticize him??.please...man people will spin anything for a negative reaction..
     
  29. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member


    Sure he can test the market, his agent just starts barking about how hes underpaid and voila! hes testing the market. Usually happens with 1 year left on a contract but considering Wake is 29 I could see that scenario happening now.

    The point is players and agents believe a player should renegotiate his contract whenever the situation suits them(pay raise). Coming off a DPOY; sackmaster type of year I can see Ireland playing the game of trade-bait if Wake's agent is playing the game of renegotiating his current contract.
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He signed a contact. He signed a contract. He signed a contract.

    What is so wrong with allowing the contract to play out?
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Athletes' career are extremely fungible for one, for two if he tears and ACL the club can simply waive him.

    When Cam ends up with Rosenhaus, and we see another Matt Roth situation, we will know why.
     
  32. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    In '09 Wake always played with his hand in the dirt. Situational pass rusher. No idea what we had except a real physical guy. In 2010 he transitioned very well to OLB. Natural progression and development.

    Nolan knows what he has.

    He dominates and you pay a guy for his development :up:
     
  33. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    They should have stuck with Matt Roth.... I'll say it all day. It was that transition from DE to OLB......Five sacks after the change....
    FO had faith in Anderson, Moses and old JT
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Funny thing about that observation Killahp, Pat White sent some folks into a fit, "we wasted a #2 pick!" keep Roth and no pick would have been needed for Koa Misi and look who is sitting their at #42:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft

    Rob Gronkowski...a highly productive Te...
     
  35. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Wake has another big season he'll get paid....a lot. I wouldn't give him a huge contract yet if I was the ownership, right now he's had one big year, if he has another then he'll get a big paycheck but paying him now isn't really smart if you are the management of this team.
     
  36. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think the difference is the position that Soliai plays, in regards to how this defense works. You can plug in situational pass rushers but you still have to have the big ugly 3/4 NT that eats up a couple of guys on the OL on every play. I'm not downplaying what Wake did this past year, he was surprisingly good, but Soliai's play for most of the season allowed Wake to do his thing. If there was one thing different from the 2009 season to the 2010 season, it was the play of the NT. Besides, as was mentioned, it's about doing what you have to fiscally to keep your team intact. It's not time for Wake to collect yet. It is time for Soliai...that's the way the system works.
     
  37. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...old-when-it-comes-to-wake?module=HP_headlines

    Ronin, If you did not doubt, you would not ask. And if you click on the above link, same one in the opening post of this thread, you will see that Wake has been lobbying to re-do his contract. :)

    I also posted, some time ago, that the team was in negotiation with Wake's agent on an extension prior to the lockout, and were far apart. I don't have that link but, I think it was from Jeff Darlington, the Phins beat writer from the Herald.
     
  38. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    I took a look at what some others are making. Wake is at a salary of $480K this year, same as Ryan and Chris Baker, and Dotson, no longer here, was at $555K.

    Berger is at $1.5M, Crowder at $2.5M, Sapp at $1.9M, Fields- 3 years at 2.2M, Denny, our long punt snapper, at 4 years, $3.03M.

    Austin Spitler, Jerom Mastrud, and Matt Kopa are all at $405K.

    Yes, Wake signed a contract, and yes he is supposed to wait another year to re-negotiate. However, as Padre pointed out, NFL contracts are not guaranteed, and pretty much meaningless.

    Performance is rewarded in all walks of life, and Wake should be no different. He EARNED it.
     
  39. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Part of "earning it" is paying your dues. That generally means that you'll play under value for a couple of years, but also if you stay decent you'll also be over paid later in your career. It's like the pro bowl where players generally get voted in a year after they deserve it and hang around a year after they deserve it as well.
     
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Would you pay him more than Demarcus Ware makes???
     

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