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UDFA Interest List

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would give guys like Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin, Jake Fitzpatrick, Tim Barnes and Terrence Toliver a go.
     
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  2. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    And we do behind Bess and Marshall and maybe Brian Hartline. Obviously I'm not saying we bring in Torey Gurley to compete with Marshall for the #1 WR spot. But between Pruitt, Wallace, and Moore you have a combined career total of 12 catches for 190 yards and 1 TD. And you have Edmund Gates who is a rookie. Are you really going to sit there and say we can't upgrade the talent at WR?
     
  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A second year player who prior to injury had a pretty good chance of hitting 1000 yards on the season is not in any sense a "project". You've got a pretty high draft pick for a #4 wide receiver that you're going to be giving developmental snaps to. That's not really a lack of talent.

    Signing Sidney Rice is an awful idea, though.
     
  4. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    since when is a 4th round draft pick is "a pretty high draft pick?"
     
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  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I have a higher opinion of Hartline and Gates than you do. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that an UDFA is likely to compete with Gates or likely to push Hartline. I also don't agree that Hartline has the #3 position by default.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would not be on board with pursuing Rice. I like him as a player but I don't feel that adding a #2 WR adds a lot to the offense over what we already have and especially at the cost that would be associated with bringing in a guy like Rice.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ''Saaanzenbachaaa''..You gotta watch the interview with Pryor that gruden did...I laughed very hard...Gruden loves ''Sanzenbackaaa''...lol...
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Good names, but for context..they will have to sign 16 more players to fill out the 90 man Camp Roster.

    Ireland has a fetish for a couple of things in UDFA's:

    Db's who run 4.4's
    Athletic Te's
    Linemen who are from big named Colleges, both Defensive and Offensive linemen.

    Also likes formerly highly ranked coming out High School players.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same here, do not understand why Hartline does not get more credit, two yrs in the league, good YPC numbers, would maybe ding him a bit for the injury bug.
     
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    A 2nd year possession WR who's inability to stretch the field for Marshall and Bess necessitated Gates' selection in the first place. I agree that adding Rice is a high risk move for a running team, but when your QB is making 550K it gives the GM some latitude as far as splurging on other areas of the roster and Rice's skillset would be a tremendous asset for us. I suppose you could argue that Andre Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Larry Fitz etc would be awful acquisitions as well, I just think you're cheap :tongue2:.
     
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  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Wake me when a single opposing defense comes in and says, "Man, we've gotta make sure Hartline doesn't go crazy on us this week..."

    The guy eats good b/c teams' attention is focused elsewhere, his YPC are primarily from catching balls in space where he has room to run, as opposed to Marshall who's usually surrounded by the time the ball gets to him. Not bashing the guy, but the next big play he creates on his own will be his first, not a good thing for a guy who sees as much single coverage as he does.
     
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  12. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Well I read in the Washington post that the salary cap will be set at 141 million dollars. Also, that teams will have to fill 90% of that space...So why the hell not sign Sidney Rice if you can?
     
  13. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Romo went to EIU...Eastern Illinois University. 90 percent of my hs friends went there, its like 5 minutes from where I grew up.
     
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  14. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Rod Smith, Wayne Chrebet, Davonne Bess, Wes Welker, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates, Kurt Warner, James Harrison, Tony Romo, Arian Foster, Cam Wake, Miles Austin, Willie Parker, Jake Delhomme, Adam Vinatieri, hell, Warren Moon, Bart Scott, Ryan Grant, Antonio Pierce, Adewale Ogunleye, London Fletcher, Jason Peters, Pat Williams, Jeff Saturday, Jeff Garcia, John Randle. Never dismiss a player's ability just because he went undrafted.

    Edited to add more names to illustrate my point :)
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think it was the manner in which you said "because of a lack of talent at WR". Obviously we have Brandon Marshall and Davone Bess and Brian Hartline (I'm not about to get into any debates on him, suffice it to say I believe he's a good but not great player), and then we just added Edmond Gates who I think is universally regarded by the fan faithful as a 4th round steal (much like Paul Soliai was universally regarded by the fan faithful as a 4th round steal in 2007). Obviously you meant the back end of the roster, Marlon Moore, Roberto Wallace, etc...so it's probably just semantics.

    I don't think anyone is delusional enough to think the Dolphins won't be signing any UDFA receivers after showing interest in so many undraftables pre-Draft and then calling guys like Joe Morgan and Owen Spencer during the 7th round of the draft, which is usually what you do with guys you intend to pursue as UDFAs. The Dolphins will be signing UDFAs at a lot of positions, and receiver will be one of them.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think he's faster than Devine on the game tape, but it's certainly debatable as Devine ran a 4.43 at his pro day while Harris ran a 4.44 at his pro day. They both claim they can and have run faster. Harris has run a 4.37 before, and he's leaped 41.5 inches in his team workouts which was good enough to earn him best vertical on the team. He did 38.5 inches at his Pro Day. Devine did 35.5 inches at his Pro Day. I think when they run on the field, Harris plants and drives better than Devine, using that more explosive lower body to sit and explode, accelerating faster. I notice that Devine's 10 yard split was 1.51 while Harris' was 1.44. That's a wide enough difference that I think there's more going on there than measurement error.

    Why don't you get the size comparisons? Devine measured 179 lbs leading up to the Draft but everyone knows he played at 160 lbs. Devine admitted as much to someone I know when they had dinner together in Sanibel a few weeks ago. Harris is the same height, but at least 20 lbs heavier on game days. That most certainly makes a difference. Harris' combination of size and plant-and-explode style are more NFL compatible than Devine's running, IMO.

    I don't think there's anything "extremely rare" about Devine's skill set. If there was, he wouldn't have been making plans for playing in the UFL as of a few weeks ago when he had dinner with that guy I know.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    FWIW I saw Maehl up close in Shrine practices for a week and he really didn't look very good to me. That other white guy from Stanford was the better, and from what I saw of Dane Sanzenbacher, he was better than both. A lot quicker.

    When you see Jeff Maehl up close, you're pretty sure he's just a ball boy.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Heh, then why did his YPC dip with Marshall across from him?

    Your boy Henne misses him consistently on deep passes as well, and he does create big plays, witness the Titans game from 09, his problem is Henne is to scattershot to hit on deep passes consistently, a Wr is limited by what the Qb is doing.
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hartline played pu$#y football for about half a season, he deserved an *** kickin I swear..
     
  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I can second this. I was there as well and felt the same way. Ryan Whalen, the aformentioned Stanford wideout, was much better. Crisper routes and a lot more quicker getting in and out of breaks.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It's an ignorant point. Obviously there a UDFAs who are good even great players, but the percentages are against it. There are approximately between 160 and 320 UDFA signed every season and most fail. Citing exceptions doesn't change that. It would be like arguing that we should draft all our QBs in the 6th and then citing Tom Brady and believing you made a point. The percentages are even worse if you have a high opinion of the talent level of the WRs we already have.
     
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  22. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Here's Gil Brandt's top 20:

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...ded-with-sudden-impact?module=HP11_hot_topics
     
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  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I really like Derrick Locke. I'm not saying he's a sure thing or anything. I just think he's got enough size and talent to potentially be one of those success stories.
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Agree Rafi, as much as I love to dig around the talent bargain bin, the reality is very few players ever do anything more then make a few plays in the preseason, and ride the taxi squad for a yr before being shown the door.

    We already have several UDFA Wr types with 4.4 speed, Pat Carter, J Pruitt, MMoore, Roberto Wallace, and that is off of the top of my head, of them only Moore has done anything notable in the league, and that was in one game, these guys rarely pan out often enough to make an impact let alone being worth arguing over.
     
  25. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Would like to see Vai Taua given an opportunity. Isn't going to run by anyone with blazing speed, but will suprise. Great North-South, tough, hard-nose player that runs well between the tackles. Cuts well with no wasted motion by dancing around. Keeps shoulders squared to end zone. Plays faster in pads than his 40 time. Definitely worth a shot.
     
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  26. fastball83

    fastball83 Active Member

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    cooper devlin or van camp or chapell and at wr binns orlockett or tolliver for me
     
  27. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    It's an ignorant point? Really? Because last I checked in 3 off-seasons this front office has brought in two UDFAs who have become stars in the NFL. But yeah, you're right, let's just ignore history and say **** it. I mean, we got Roberto Wallace, Julius Pruitt and Marlon Moore. SUPER BOWL!!!
     
  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, at a minimum we at least need 1 player from somewhere to take Cobbs' place which is traditionally a role that is filled by a UDFA or late rd draft pick type, C Clay does a couple of jobs but with that many snaps on the line have to think a traditional running back maybe has a better shot at filling the role.

    Fanin is a great name as well, COP, maybe handle Returns in a pinch, real problem is can he do things like play Gunner and block on FG and Extra point tries?
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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  30. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Why bring in Derrick Locke? By your own "logic" there's no sense in bringing in UDFA at all since the majority of them never amount to anything.
     
  31. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm not against bringing in UDFAs. In fact, I was pounding the table for them to sign Bess and Wake. UDFAs tend to make an impact when two things are in play. One they're very talented and slipped through the evaluation cracks. And two, they land on a team who is hurting at their position. At the time we were particularly weak at those positions and it was reasonable to expect that a talented UDFA could potentially be an upgrade. Just like now we are particularly weak at RB so a guy like Locke has a better than usual opportunity. As I've said several times in this thread, I have a higher opinion of our first four WRs on the depth chart and don't see much of an opportunity for an UDFA to challenge those guys.
     
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  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Willie Smith is an interesting tackle prospect that might be worth looking at. There's a ILB for Fresno State that I like as a classic banger, already forget his name but he plays hard, hits hard, will really jam up the hole by making contact with blockers, and then he's surprisingly good in coverage. Ben Jacobs, that was his name. Though Nick Bellore looked pretty good at Shrine practices as well.

    I don't think Sealver Siliga is another Paul Soliai.

    Justin Boren is worth looking at as a potential RG. Classic mauler. Does his job well, makes solid contact.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Have to speculate whether or not the Van Camp/Berry/Coopers have an edge on the rest of the UDFA crop as they live in the area and can quickly sign a deal after a physical, 23 players must be added so the usual "******* inspection" that happens prior to signing a player has to have a condensed process.

    Think:

    FIU
    FAU
    Miami

    UDFA's, which ones are the best prospects from those 3 schools?

    Not a UDFA, but Donte Stallworth also lives in the area and a name I'd love to see in camp, Jevon Kearse as well.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't think that's going to matter. The personnel people have had months and months to keep looking at the film and looking into these UDFAs. Jeff Ireland described it. He says what's happened is the scouts that are pounding the table for their guy have had the time and opportunity to show the tape to more people including Ireland and Gaine and everyone, and it's sort of made them more urgent and convicted about the players they want.

    What you're suggesting, that the Dolphins will just take on some players non-chalantly because they're local, is the antithesis of that. Jeff Ireland is communicating that the UDFAs they've targeted, they have a lot of conviction in.
     
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  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Problem with that is CK, Rosenhaus mentioned teams MUST have their 90 man rosters done..PRIOR to opening TC, honestly do not know if that is true as the nuts and bolts of how the NFL works simply rarely comes up.

    If that is true, then how are you going to work out 23 schedules and physicals and contracts when you have oh, 3 days to do so?
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Who knows if Rosenhaus is right or not. Either way I think the DOlphins are going to send out a lot of offers to the UDFAs that they're interested in and the agents for those UDFAs will make their decisions quickly. Look at the interest list I posted. There are no shortage of players on it.
     
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  37. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    CK, If you had to pick a few guys who have a chance of making a difference with our Phins, who would they be?

    Also, which is the better Pouncey coming out of college?
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IIRC CK said at one point that he had a higher grade on our Pouncey than on the Steeler's Pouncey coming out. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, LOL. I know I had a higher grade on Mike P (our Pouncey) coming out.
     
  39. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Thanks Raf. I was thinking the same but, do not follow college players to the extent you guys do.
     
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  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I liked Mike Pouncey at Center more than Maurkice, truthfully. That doesn't mean I think he was worthy of a #15 pick. I just had Maurkice as a little overrated and Mike as a better Center prospect because of his better agility. I kid about the snap issues but honestly they're not that big a deal to me.

    Overall though I just don't think you take a Center at #15 overall unless you're just absolutely positive this guy is the best Center you've ever seen. And I certainly didn't have that kind of conviction on Mike Pouncey. It's just not a wise use of resources, IMO. Go ahead and watch Richard's highlight videos of Mike Pouncey in college, and pick out the number of blocks he makes that made a real difference in creating extra yardage, that some guy like Joe Berger could not have also made. If you're being honest with yourself, you'd only be counting on one hand.

    Centers make more of an impact on the game mentally than physically. That's why you can get them in the lower rounds. That's why the Patriots' OL can be great for all those years with Dan Koppen and the Giants' OL can be great for all those years with Shaun O'Hara, etc.
     
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