It's worth starting a thread about. Jason La Canfora has said that Kyle Orton will go to Arizona or Miami. I have it from a local Denver media member that the Broncos are focusing on sending Orton to Arizona, Seattle or Miami. It would seem the Dolphins are at this moment mired in the middle of the Kyle Orton negotiations, and so it's worth discussing. My opinion on Orton as I've said before is that Kyle Orton is an upgrade over Chad Henne at quarterback. On the good side I think he's got a better feel for operating an offense with good timing and having a feel for how to hit opponents where it hurts them. He regularly throws at distances of about 20 to 25 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, plus he regularly lofts the ball for deep verticals, challenging the defense down field. He is generally accurate on these throws, more so than Henne IMO. I think he reads more of what's going on prior to the snap, and will use cadence and calls more often to either adjust the play or try and hurt the defense. He's good out of the shotgun. He's good on three step drops. He's got a more sudden delivery, keeps defenses guessing a little more until the ball comes out. Henne is more smooth and deliberate, but also later on his throws. The two drawbacks I found to Orton were that he's probably even worse than Henne when pressured in the pocket and forced to improvise, and he's less consistent than Chad Henne. I actually believe that Henne is relatively consistent game to game, but that the circumstances around him aren't that consistent. Orton, is really inconsistent game to game IMO. Which Kyle Orton do we get? This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APAGOhx3wsU Or this one, who showed up to play the same opponent a mere three weeks later? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aDszonLHbM Obviously he had more good games than just the Week 10 one against the Chiefs and more bad ones than just the Week 13 game against the Chiefs...but it highlights his inconsistency. The inconsistency is such to where in Week 10 he even did something I rarely saw him do all year which was consistently make a good play happen under pressure. Twice in that game he improvised to an outlet under pressure and made a play. That generally was not the case in his games.
All depends on the price tag. More than a 3rd-4th is ehhh And by all accounts, Arizona already has Kolb.
Well, you can see the differences in the offenses themselves in wk #10, they did far more things, play action was more effective, screen passes to the backs, flanker screens, Rb throwback passes to Orton, etc. In the wk #13, nothing, the Chiefs were running the routes for the Wr's, literally they were right on top of the play. McDaniels was fired after that game and the team, especially the Wr's, played like they knew he was going to be fired, the sole Td in the second game Orton had to make one heck of a throw for the TD.
The issue I have with Orton is much the same that you got, Chris. You look at his rating the past three years, you look at his YPA and you look at his TD-INT ratio and you'd think, hey, I got a pretty decent QB here. Then you look at his % and you think, wait a minute, that's not what I was expecting to see. And it's much the same on tape, too. You see one game where he absolutely lights it up like a christmas tree, and then you watch the next one and he literally misses on every bloody schoolboy throw you can think of. Consistency is definitely an issue with Orton, but it's hard not to see a big upside, because when he's hot, he's smoking hot. Problem is, when he's cold, he's really ice cold, too. He's an upgrade over Henne in my book because Orton will win you games. Yeah, he'll lose you some as well, but Henne (whether by his own fault or bad coaching; I don't want to get into that old argument yet again) plays not to lose. To me, the real question is whether or not Orton can develop the kind of consistency that would justify a trade on the basis that he can be a consistently good QB down the road, not just a replacement for 2011. And on that, I'm really not sure. Right now, I have Orton as a "teaser quarterback": one that always keeps you hoping for him to make that next step but never does.
It's hard to tell how seriously to take this stuff, but Orton does have a partying history (pictures that would make Vince Young blush), and you wonder if it affected parts of his career.
I do think Orton is an upgrade over Henne, he has some consistency issues that keep him from being a top Qb but I think we can win 10 games with Orton and have a good shot at the playoffs. Regardless of whether or not we are targeting Orton, we need another Qb, going into the season with Henne and some training camp arms would be a disaster.
Orton at the right price would be my choice. He at a min is a guy that wont cost u gamnes and is true comp. But if he costs a 2 or more, no thanks, unless our only other option is VY then anything other than VY
Orton, Palmer, Young, whomever is available as long as they can legitimately compete for the start & won't break the bank or destroy our chance @ a franchise quality QB next year's draft.
Orton would be a great option. I'd love to get Palmer or Hasselbeck, but would totally go for Orton coming in at the right price. He had some HUGE games last year.... McNabb would make me puke. He is toast. Time for him to start considering life after football....
There seems to be a lot of stomach viruses going around right now... I would gladly take Kyle Orton/Vince Young/Rex Grossman/McNabb over Chad Henne, however if Henne starts for us I am confident he will do a good job for us, however, I am on the used Qb car lot, and I've brought my insurance policy, and asking for keys to that really nice...
have been watching last years games I taped & I must agree with Friend Tin Indian. we need to find a legitimate alternative @ QB for 1012. Palmer, Orton or Young would do nicely.
I don't see how they don't bring in a legitimate QB option. Whether it be Orton, McNabb, Hasselbeck, etc., who knows. But it will have to be addressed.
Well you say it right in your sig, "Competion is the Elixir of Success". We must bring in another Qb and that Qb has to be able to compete directly with Henne for the starting job. If Henne is the best choice, has made significant progress from last year and plays demonstably better than the others in camp, then he will legitamately win the job. Frankly, I don't think he can beat out Palmer, Orton, Young or Hasselbeck for that matter. The way I see it, They have to bring in one of those guys and a UDFA or 2 for a 3rd. I don't see them resigning Thigpen.
I'm wondering how many of Orton, Young and Palmer's games you watched last year. Or are we just throwing out the the names of any QB we've heard of? Orton has a 9 million dollar cap number, which won't bother a casual fan much but I can assure you that Ireland is factoring that number into his plans. You don't pay a guy that kind of $ to "COMPETE" for a job, at that salary he'd be the starter, period. Ditto for Palmer at 11 million and Young at 8.5 IIRC. Young is probably getting released, but Orton and Palmer can veto any trade by refusing to renegotiate their contracts or in Palmer's case, refusing to show up for work. We're two weeks away from the preseason, 7 weeks from playing NE. The roster isn't complete yet, the offense needs to be installed, the rookies need to be acclimated, as does the new OC. We're going to do all of that, and stage a fair QB competition while we're at it? If you get a chance listen to Tony Dungy and Chris Mortensen's interviews on the LeBatard show today. A nice dose or reality for those of us who haven't figured out that Henne is going to be the QB, at least for this season.
I better get a case! LOL! I had high hopes for Henne last year, but for whatever reason he did not improve. I have rarely been so frustrated by a player that I thought has some real ability. I fail to understand how he could never seem to hook up with Marshall. Throw the darn ball up and let Marshall make a play on it with his size. You never know Henne could come out and play very well this year and shut up all of his naysayers, but since he has lost 4 1/2 months work with the coaching staff I'd think the chances of that happening are extremely remote.
I don't completely disagree with you, but the fact remains these guys are going somewhere and we have 1 Qb on the roster.
Ask Fox, Shanahan & Carrol. I'm sure they could explain. My question would be, if Shanahan is willing to go w/ Beck or Grossman, Fox is willing to go w/ Tebow & Carrol is willing to go w/ Whitehurst then why on earth would we want any parts of the veteran QBs they are jettisoning to make room for those guys. How many different teams have to discard McNabb or Orton before you it sinks in? Or do we hate Henne that much?
Considering Denver's record last year, I don't see where the winning games comes from. He's 32-30 for his career and his best season in terms of W/L came on a stacked Bears team. EDIT: Orton isn't a "the guy" kind of player. I'd prefer pursuing Matt Hasselbeck in FA and saving those picks for later. Orton is probably not moving for less than a 3rd, maybe 2nd (IMO). I just wonder, if he's THAT good, why move him for Tim Tebow? And, how much of last year had to do with Josh McDaniels.
The thought of that just sends chills up and down my spine! For the record, I don't hate Henne but I am extremely disappointed with his weak play last year.
IMO they were talking about Favre & McNabb in the context of making Snyder type offseason moves that excite the fan base but never work out on the field. Snyder throws money at Bruce Smith, or Deion, or Randel El, or Haynesworth, or Fred Smoot or whoever and the his teams continue to suck. They were basically clowning Snyder and his fan base that falls for his offseason antics each year. Both Dungy and Mortensen predicted that Henne would be the QB, even if only for continuity's sake.
Exactly. Would anyone here trade/release Henne so that we could start the season w/ Tebow, Beck or Whitehurst? B/c that's what appears to be happening to the QBs that are supposedly going to come in here, beat out Henne and take us to the promised land aka WC round...
I would be fine with bringing in Orton to compete with Henne, but I certainly wouldn't give up more than a 3rd or 4th for him because I just don't see him being a big upgrade over Henne - especially considering the work Henne put in with his teammates this off season, the the leadership he showed, and the time he had to learn the offense being that he got the playbook during the brief lifting of the lockout. Henne has got what it takes. Consistency has been his thorn. If he can be more consistent, there is no use in throwing a draft pick away for another QB. Unless it's Palmer, who I believe is still one of the top QBs in this league who simply needs a change of venue. That said, it's certainly not looking like the Bengals are going to be willing to give him up and if they do, the cost will be much more than Orton will likely be.
I think Henne improved significantly last year, but I understand there's a lot of frustration. I just don't see how taking on someone else's garbage is going to benefit us. I think we should play Henne and if he doesn't show us something then we go into next offseason looking for his replacement in the draft. Orton, Young, Hasselbeck etc, is grasping at straws IMO.
Why would anyone want to release Chad Henne? A trade would likely not net very much either, we land Orton, Henne holds the clipboard, Orton goes down, Henne then wins three important games, Orton comes back and we have a Qb controversy. That is how it works in Miami GMJ.
I wasnt suggesting we cut Henne. I was trying to say that if Beck > McNabb then how is McNabb > Henne? Same goes for Tebow > Orton and Whitehurst > Hasselbeck. Shanahan and Elway are well respected football guys, Carrol is no dummy either. But all I keep hearing is that we need to acquire one of these guys who are CLEARLY not valued very highly by their current teams. Ditto for Vince. If you can't beat John Beck in a QB competition then you're guilty by association and I want nothing to do with you. I still havent heard an explanation for why we'd pay Orton 9 millie or why he'd take a paycut in order to "compete" when there are other teams out there where he could keep his salary and be virtually guaranteed the starting gig. And why would Arizona, w/ Skelton & Anderson, or Seattle w/ Whitehurst, or Tennessee w/ Locker, not outbid us for Orton/Young/McNabb? They're QB problems are far larger than ours.
We agree on something finally. Being the legitimate competition. Like you I would give a third but nothing more. I do like Orton a lot.
Now this I completely agree with! How many 2nd rounders have been given up or used on Qb's here over the last 10 years. This team must commit to doing whatever is necessary to draft a legitimate 1st round Qb prospect next year. IMHO there is no position in all of sports that is more critical to a teams success than a starting Qb in the NFL.
One should extend that line of thinking, "clearly not highly valued" to Chad Henne and I think you have answered your own question. Henne's performance still sticks in folks heads GMJ, know it does in mine.
I think Orton is a good player, and would be an upgrade from Henne, but I'm not sure he's the answer. He's getting a little older, and I just don't see him as much more than an above-average game-manager.
I hear ya Pads. Henne is the fans' official scapegoat for last year, even though it was the running game that regressed badly & not Henne's play. I'm not beholden to Henne by any means and I'd drop his *** like a rock if we had a chance at a clear upgrade, I just don't see one out there. The good thing is, the lockout is over and Ireland will be settling most of these personnel debates within the next week or two. I've got my Pepto ready in case we trade for one of those scrub QBs, hope you guys have yours in case we don't.
I don't know how much this matters, but I'm watching NFL Network and Jason LaCanfora who predicted Kolb to Arizona just said he has Orton to Arizona and Kolb staying in Philly or going to Seattle.
