See, my fear with Orton is that he's good and he'll be better than Henne for now, but will never be a "great" qb that can carry us to the SB. If signed, I see a a lot of 9-7 playoff bubbles or first-round exits. Better than now, sure, but not good enough and we'll be out of position for a real franchise QB. Plus, call me crazy but I do think it would be nice to see Henne a little bit in a new O before we cast him off. I'd say offer a 4th for Orton, very most a 3rd, and give him 20m over 4-5 years.. And let's not forget Orton's time with Chicago either, he wasn't exactly a superstar down there. The system can make a huge difference with (all) QBs (It's interesting to compare Orton with Cutler when they switched teams a few years ago). And hell, there's a reason Denver is moving on from him with an unproven Tebow
Yep. And I want someone to prove to me, with some validity, that Orton is worth trading for and that he will be an upgrade over Henne. *** Todd mentioned, Henne has played with a poor running game, a defense who can't create turnovers, a defense that gives ups entirely too many big plays, and STs unit that is in the cellar. Henne is, most of the time, put in a hole -having to carry a team on his shoulders without having the benefit of sitting and learning. Without the benefit of being put in easier situations as he learns. Without the benefit of an offense that isn't as predictable as a baby ****ting and pissing his diaper every 10 minutes. Orton would not - and will not do any better in the same situation if it doesn't change. He is NO better than Henne. All we can hope for is a FAIR competition, an improved TO ratio, a better special teams and a better running game. Looking at all of that, and pinning our struggles, for the most part, on Henne is wrong and a cop out. I want to see this guy develop because he has all the tools to be a really QB. And if the trade goes through for Orton, I hope Henne whips his *** in the competition for the starting job.
I think Ortons time in Chicago is what makes him appealing he has performed well and gotten better every year . The improvement is there and the tape is there for it to be properly seen . Hes basically played in two very different systems and played well in both . The Bears ran a run heavy two TE type system prior to Mike Martz coming aboard and Orton put up 18 and 12 in that system he then went and learned the supposedly very sophisticated offensive system of Joshs McDaniel and while he improved the team was in flux around him it seems as they traded the teams best offensive player in Marshall to us . This is the guy that as they say has pretty much seen it all now in two very distinctly different offenses and has taken his lumps but still improved and gotten better . If you are gonna gamble on someone he is the type of guy you gamble on . At worst you get a top 15 qb at best a top ten thats not a bad gamble for us right now considering hes 28 as long as the contract and compensation are right
Bill O'Brien was promoted to OC, but when Dean Pees left they never hired or named another DC. Why would they when for all intents and purposes, Belichick runs that defense.
Just an update from PFT for y'all... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/27/dolphins-broncos-working-to-get-kyle-orton-deal-done/
I don't know what more I can say... but if you thought Chad Henne was put in a hole... then maybe you should re-think your stance on Kyle Orton. Miami Dolphins Defense Allowed 20.8 points per game (14th in the NFL) Gave up 6.2 yards per pass (20th in the NFL) Allowed 3.6 yards per rush (4th in the NFL) 11 Interceptions (25th in the NFL) 8 Fumbles Recovered (24th in the NFL) Gave Up 3348 passing yards (8th in the NFL) Gave Up 1601 rushing yards (7th in the NFL) Denver Broncos Defense Allowed 29.4 points per game (32nd in the NFL) Gave up 7.2 yards per pass (30th in the NFL) Allowed 4.7 yards per rush (29th in the NFL) 10 Interceptions (30th in the NFL) 8 Fumbles Recovered (24th in the NFL) Gave Up 3780 passing yards (25th in the NFL) Gave Up 2473 rushing yards (31st in the NFL) Miami Dolphins Rushing (minimum 40 attempts) Ronnie Brown - 200 attempts, 734 yards, 3.7 YPC, 2 TD, 3 Fumbles Ricky Williams - 159 attempts, 673 yards, 4.2 YPC, 2 TD, 4 Fumbles Denver Broncos Rushing (minmum 40 attempts) Knowshon Moreno - 182 attempts, 779 yards, 4.3 YPC, 5 TD, 3 Fumbles Correll Buckhalter - 59 attempts, 147 yards, 2.5 YPC, 2 TD, 1 Fumble Lance Ball - 41 attempts, 158 yards, 3.9 YPC, 0 TD, 1 Fumble
Good link, backlash against the backlash, hahaha, that sounds like our never happy Dolphins fan base. About the only thing we all agree on is the '72 team was the best ever and Marino was the greatest QB ever. Other than that we fight and squabble all the time over even the most trite and trivial of topics.
I get you Pads and it's a good point, but salary wouldn't be the issue. We would most likely have to trade picks to move up.
My point is.. Josh McDaniels became the Quarterbacks Coach for New England when Tom Brady when he was entering his fifth season and had already won 2 Super Bowls. I fail to see how McDaniels "made" Brady as mentioned before. Or helped made... whatever it is... Tom Brady made Tom Brady.
TOS violations abound already. Poor Todd. He can't win for losing. First day back and he is viciously attacked.
Here is your proof. Everything you mentioned that Henne lacked, Kyle Orton played with less. He had a worse team, worse offensive pieces around him, an even moreso one dimensional offense, etc. Yet all anyone wants to cry about is that he had McDaniels while Henne had Lee & Henning. McDaniels didn't do squat. Brady was who he was before him and was after him. This love affair with drafting a guy and having him be a Dolphin 5604596498 years needs to end. I don't care how it's done, but the QB needs to play better. Drafted, traded for, signed, it doesn't matter. Chad Henne has a strong arm...yay!
Didn't the media also report that the Dolphins had acquired a new coach and the only thing left was to "hash out the numbers"? Meh...I'll believe we signed Orton when Orton is at a presser with Aqua and Blue behind him. However, I really don't even want to see that. Orton will do nothing here.
IMO, having Charlie Weis early in his career helped him a lot too. Whomever took over the offense after Weis, just kept his blueprint basically in place. They haven't won a Super Bowl since Weis left, have they?
Wasn't it McDaniels playbook that got Brady the records in 2007? IIRC, after the Broncos beat the Pats, both Brady and BB stayed on the field looking for McDaniels. Usually those two are running off the field after a loss.
While Brady's been there... The Pats defense was ranked 6th or better 6 times. They won the Super Bowl 3 times with the 5th, 1st, and 2nd ranked defenses. In those three Super Bowl winning seasons Brady averaged 23 TD's, 13 INT's, 205 yards passing per game, with an 87 QBR. Or in other words...game manager stats. In his first postseason he threw 1 TD and 1 INT for the ENTIRE postseason and failed to throw for over 145 yards in two of those games. In his second postseason he had sub 76 QBR's for the first 2 games. When the Pats defense have been ranked worse than 6th (4 times). They won ZERO Super Bowls and made the playoffs 50% of the time.
I think it was the NYJ's decision to report the Pats for videotaping, and Belichick's subsequent affinity for running up the score that got Brady the records in 2007. The Pats offense was just as efficient last season as it was in 2007.
We're really going to act like Tom Brady isn't one of the all time greats? Tip your hat. He's damn good.
Have not done well since they haven't had a rb with over 250 carries or so, people maybe do not realize what horses Smith and Dillon were for them.
No doubt. But you can't act like they haven't been legit contenders for the last 10 years. Every single year they have been in it.
And BJGE is a free agent. Why don't they use that guy more. We all know the Pats like to sling it now.... Too often. Perhaps.
Except when their defense was ranked worse than 6th. lol... I'm not saying that Brady's a scrub, but IMO he's not the all-time great some people claim he is. Anyhow, enough of hijacking this thread...
The evidence for Josh McDaniels being some sort of phenomenal offensive mind is very, very thin. You can't attribute the Patriots success to any one factor offensively, but given what they've done without McDaniels, and how much more impressive they were this season, it sure as **** ain't him and what he did in Denver speaks for itself. O'Brien was promoted to offensive coordinator this offseason. Prior to that they hadn't had one since McDaniels left.
If we can get him for a 3rd or 4th then by all means get him but anything more is a no go IMO. If anything it will bring in great competition for Henne. And I think everyone can agree that's a good thing. Henne might even beat Orton out for the starting job, but its hard to tell if he can do that considering his competition the last few years was a QB who was nothing better than a back-up (Thigpen and White) and a vet QB with a glass shoulder (Pennington), So who knows?
Not sure if this has been responded to........... and not meaning to butt heads here: Orton's first 2 years starting (spans 4 seasons): (30 games) 70 QBR, 4,841 yards, 55%, 5.8 YPA, 27 TDs, 25 INTs. Henne's first 2 years starting (spans 3 seasons): (28 games) 75 QBR, 6,179 yards, 61%, 6.6 YPA, 27 TDs, 33 INTs. Let's not forget: 1. the wildcat's impact on lack of TD production from the passing game. (you can't throw TDs when you're not in the game) 2. all the TDs Orton threw while trailing a game thanks to his team's horrendous defense. 3. Orton's 2nd year starting came during his 4th season. 4. Henne's strength of schedule has been night and day different (harder) compared to Orton's. 5. Orton couldn't carry the Broncos on his shoulders when the rest of the team was playing poorly....... so how is that any different than what Henne faced last season (which is what much of the media and fans are complaining about)? 6. Orton was benched the last 3 weeks of 2010 after 2 disgusting games vs KC & Zona. How do you go 19/41 for 166 yards, 4.0 avg, 46%, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, and a 27 QBR against Zona's 30th ranked scoring defense? Is this the consistency we're looking for?
