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Latest Orton news and stuff

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    inching to 100k posts
    No, but you post in the nude...:shifty:
     
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  2. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    King wears a dress ... now that is news ... oh hell wait.... :wink2:
     
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  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    After McDaniels left, O'Brien took on the duties of OC for the most part, even without the official title. He took over play calling in 2009.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Not sure on KM, but Jake opening up to everyone how he likes to cross dress a while back. The image in one's mind sends chills down your spine.
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, not "this". It isn't close to true. You can actually, you know, go back and look at it. Orton has quite a few good games against good teams, at least over the past two years.

    vs. Dallas 2009: 20 of 29(69%), 243 yards, 2 TD 0 INT 117.5 rating
    vs. New England 2009: 35 of 48(72.9%), 330 yards, 2 TD 1 INT 96.7 rating
    @ San Diego 2009: 20 of 29(69%), 229 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 115.4 rating
    @ Indianapolis 2009: 29 of 41,(71.2%), 277 yards, 2 TD 1 INT, 95.3 rating
    @ Philadelphia 2009: 27 of 41, (65.9%), 189 yards, 3 TD 1 INT 90.4 rating
    vs. Indianapolis 2010: 37 of 57(64.9%), 476 yards 1 TD 1 INT 89.5 rating
    @ Baltimore 2010: 23 of 38(60.5%), 314 yards, 2 TD 0 INT 104.5 rating


    Seriously, it's like there is some sort of mass hypnosis that went on where people are confusing Kyle Orton with Jimmy Clausen. He's a pretty good quarterback.
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I have no problem with that; now a days you need 2 decent QBs if you want to make a run. My only qualm is giving up a high draft pick along with the cap room required to sign a guy (Orton) whom we'd replace in a split second if we for some reason hypothetically draft in the top 10 and have a franchise QB staring us in the face.

    I'm not a fan of how this will divide the locker room or will have the team, media, and fan base constantly looking to pull Henne for Orton if Chad should be the starter (or vice versa if Orton is the starter and has a bad game). It's like Pennington all over again IMO.

    All the hard work this team has done to build unity during the offseason (with Henne assuming leadership and building trust) will disappear the second we sign Kyle. IMO there needs to be some continuity carried over based on everything that was established during the offseason; I believe Orton disrupts this.


    It's also uncertain how Orton will do in a new division against tougher competition.
    Will the deep pass from Orton (whose questionable arm in Chicago became less questionable in Mile High) be affected in the humid, heavy air of south Florida? This could pose a problem to which the Henne-Edmund Gates (speed & strong arm) tandem might prove a better deep ball solution.
     
  7. Phintologist

    Phintologist New Member

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    Are you actually claiming that every single td Orton threw came when they were trailing ? I havent checked but that just seems like one wild claim . But I also thought they said he was injured shoulder or ribs or something like that at the end of the season ? Anyone got any information on this ?
     
  8. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    I'm not overly thrilled with the idea of Orton, but I have to admit he's a clear improvement at this time over Henne. And the chemistry between him and B Marsh was pretty good in Den.
     
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Orton's QBR was significantly higher when DEN was leading.
     
  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You want boobies back? I'll get boobies....... just for you.










    PS: as Oz would say------ shaddup.
     
  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    overlooked but significant details. (great point btw)
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Of his 42 TDs over the past 2 years, 26 TDs were thrown while trailing (9 while Tied, just for reference).

    Of the 26 TDs thrown while trailing only 5 resulted in the Broncos taking the lead and 2 resulted in tying the game (after the xp).
     
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  13. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Do you even know they want him out quick? It's because they've invested heavily in Tebow and they cannot look back. What's the point of keeping a quarterback making $9.0M on the bench when you can get some form of compensation.

    Some of the things being said here are just flat out uninformed.
     
  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes and, as Stringer noted...

    2010
    When Ahead... 96.4 QB rating
    When Tied... 89.4 QB rating
    When Behind... 84.4 QB rating

    2009
    When Ahead... 82.4 QB rating
    When Tied... 103.0 QB rating
    When Behind...84.1 QB rating

    It's asinine to suggest that Orton has padded his stats in garbage time. He's spent most of his time trailing, but he himself has done his best work when tied or ahead.
     
  15. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Don't know what to think of Orton. They had a terrible run game and numerous injuries, and an even worse defense last year. But he still managed more TDs than INTs and had a better rating than Henne. Yeah they went 3-10 when he played, but look at the Dolphins from 86-89. They had Marino but no run game and no defense, went 8-8, 8-7, 6-10, 8-8. But Marino was obviously great. He threw 44 TDs in 86 and they still couldn't get above .500. Can't always blame the QB if the rest of the team is mediocre.

    So who knows what the Dolphins formula could be, but they have a great D...so maybe Orton would be better with a strong D, and hopefully a strong Running Game. Though the same could possibly be said about Henne, except he's thrown more INTs than TDs the past 2 seasons with better teams around him than the Broncos had in 09 and 10.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    [video=youtube;5uecapxuY-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uecapxuY-k&feature=player_embedded[/video]





    :tongue2:
     
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  17. Phintologist

    Phintologist New Member

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    ahh Ok but I dont know what can be gleaned from that considering the Broncos defense was dead last in the league . 30 ppg is a ton of points the pace that he would have to be on to get out of the red of the stat wouldve had to be a league offensive mvp level.

    At 30 ppg you are looking at what 10-15 points per half

    At 20 ppg (what our defense gave up) you are looking at the 7-10 points per half

    when you consider that the broncos had no running game thats a lot of td passes to try and keep up
     
  18. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    always thought that was referred to as Breaking wind....but, whatever you want to call it sam, its all good with me.
     
  19. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I acknowledge that he's done his best work when tied or ahead, however I don't agree that it's asinine to suggest he's got some padded stats given how often he was trailing (his 4th QTR passing numbers over the past 2 years are a higher % of his stats than any other QTR).

    It doesn't concern me that he might have some "padded" stats, the only thing about Orton that might concern me is his bad performance overall on 3rd down last year. Through his career he's always done worse on 3rd down (save for 2009), but his #'s last year were significantly worse on 3rd. I didn't watch the broncos enough though to know what might have happened on 3rds between 2009 and 2010.
     
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  20. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    A bit misleading. Orton 96.4 QB rating when winning...an 84.4 when losing...a 89.4 when tied.

    Those stats were skewed against Arizona. Orton took a shot to the ribs during the game and was hurt for one. McDaniel got fired earlier in the week. The entire team played uninspired football and basically quit. Take out the Cardinal game and Orton had a 92.11 QB rating when trailing.
     
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  21. mwalls

    mwalls New Member

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    I hate the addition of Orton...

    Another castoff quarterback. They're going to give up a 3rd for a guy that is at best marginally better than a suckass Chad Henne? Pathetic. I'm sick of rooting for a team that has become so mediocre. Luckily they signed one of the worst offensive coordinators in the league to make up fo rcrappy quarterback play. If you're not going to be a contender you may as well hold onto your draft picks.
     
  22. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Good article, thought it's probably been posted already: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...miami-dolphins-0728-20110727,0,6038329.column

    Look at Orton against Baltimore, in Baltimore. 2 TDs and over 300 yards, no INTs. They lost, but they only ran for 40 yards, and of course their defense was awful. I'd like to see Henne put up those numbers playing against Baltimore, or in NY. Orton isn't a superstar on the level of Marino, Manning, Brady.

    But look at what the Jets did with Mark Sanchez in his first 2 years. With a Top 5 defense behind him and a Solid running game, Orton definitely has potential to win a playoff game or more in 2011. He can't carry a bad team, but even the best can't win the big one with a bad team even if they can carry them to the playoffs.
     
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Which make the stats useless....sorry.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Not to be a pain in the arse, Grid, but Orton's ridiculously horrible defense actually helped pad his stats.
    What would his numbers look like if defenses played him straight up all game for 13 games b/c the Broncos defense hypothetically kept things from getting out of hand?

    Would he have a 2:1 TD-INT ratio when all those late game, useless scores are taken away?
    How many INTs would be added when the pressure is now high during 4 quarters of a tight game?

    IMO it's difficult to say that Denver's healthy trio of Lloyd, Gaffney, and Royal are worse than the unhealthy mix we had half of the season that included 3 practice squad WRs receivers.

    -Brandon Lloyd of 2010 is better than a slow, injured Brandon Marshall 2010. (although a healthy, top shape Marshall gets the nod)
    -Jabar Gaffney at this point in his veteran career is a better receiver than 2nd year Hartline.
    -Davone Bess is a more reliable 3rd down receiver than Royal, but Royal is much more dynamic and dangerous which allows others make plays because of it. When Royal is involved in the passing game rather than used as a decoy, he's one of the game's best slot receivers.
    -Undrafted Moore, Wallace, & Pruitt play second fiddle to 1st round Demaryius Thomas & 3rd round Eric Decker.
    -Buckhalter & Moreno trump Ronnie & Ricky in the passing game.
    -Our starting TE is the only edge I see.

    You're mentioning Jake Long like he represents our entire Oline when in fact our Oline was dismantled and allowed the equivalent of 52 sacks in a season during the last 6 games (which is coincidentally when the offense seemed to fall apart). Denver allowed 2 more sacks on the season despite throwing 23 more attempts. If Miami averaged as many sacks allowed during the first 10 games as we did in the final 6, we would've finished 31st in the NFL.
     
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  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Are you still having trouble posting or are you good now?
     
  26. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Great post bro.
    Mirrors similar things I've been attempting to point out in other Orton threads.


    Good to have you back
     
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  27. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Wow, thanks for pointing that out to me.

    So we can throw out the window the fact that Orton had more TDs than INTs too since I didn't see them all?

    Or should we ignore that stats that show Orton did best while leading or tied because we didn't watch him enough?
     
  28. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Todd, with all due respect.... Because I was the Broncos GM in our GM League this year... I dissected every damn player on that Broncos team. If you ask any of the people involved (and there are many respectable posters on this forum that are involved) they will tell you that people take pride and put a lot of their own time evaluating their own teams' players. I did trade Kyle Orton in that league because of his high cap number and I knew I could screw some team. And what did I get in return? A first round pick. The reason why I understand why Orton is being traded is because Tebow has been anointed as the future and they cannot go back.

    I can say without question, you are vastly overrating their players. I don't know what to tell you because it seems that what people want to be fed is stats. There are stats that will favor Kyle Orton and stats that won't... just like any other player in this league. Stats don't tell the whole story... it's watching the games that do.

    Brandon Lloyd is overrated and it'll be interesting to see if he has a similar year in 2011... He had that breakout year because Kyle Orton had no one else to throw to. Jabar Gaffney is a journeyman receiver for a reason... probably a better option than Hartline at this moment, but you're taking experience over potential then. Eddie Royal is quite possibly one of the most overrated receivers in the NFL. It's not surprising that a first round pick and third round pick (Thomas/Decker) are better (haven't really proved anything on the field though) than three undrafted receivers. Moreno is a better passing option than Ronnie and Ricky, sure. I don't think he's a better runner than either though. Buckhalter was also a good receiving option, but an awful running back. Maybe you prefer wide receivers at running back though, I don't know. If that's the case, I hope you're on the Reggie Bush bandwagon. Fasano is definitely a better option than Graham, no question.

    Now on the offense line you have Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris manning the outside... or Jake Long and Vernon Carey. I know which one I am taking and you'd be foolish not to choose Miami. While I would say that Denver's interior linemen were not much better than ours. Chris Kuper is a good player, but the center JD Walton and the other guard Zane Beadles were not that great. Don't get me wrong, they are young and will improve... but at the time, not that good. Our interior line sucked too, so I'm not going to say Miami has the better interior line because it's probably just Chris Kuper that gives the Broncos the edge. And right now at this point I'd take Miami's offense line over Denver's offense line... especially with the addition of Pouncey.

    You know, I get it. Some of you don't like Orton. I'm not going to be able to change your opinion so I really don't even know why I bother to try. In the end, if we trade for Orton and he starts (which if we do trade for him, he will start), we will all support him on opening day regardless. It's getting really stupid that it's gotten to the point where we're arguing who has the worst supporting cast... I'd take Henne over Matt Hassellbeck, Tarvaris Jackson, Kevin Kolb, Vince Young, and everyone else that has been mentioned as a possible replacement. Kyle Orton is the only guy available I'd take over Chad Henne. I've said it before and I am supporting Kyle Orton not because I dislike Chad Henne but because I like Kyle Orton.

    I would say I am done talking about Kyle Orton, but that'd be lying... something will set me off tomorrow and I'll respond.
     
  29. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    And this may not even matter now... for the record, I wouldn't give more than a 3rd round pick for Kyle Orton. I think we have a 2nd round pick curse on quarterbacks and I am superstitious I guess.
     
  30. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Career stats Henne vs Orton against like for like defenses.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Henne
    [/TD]
    [TD]Games
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="colspan: 2"]QB Rating
    [/TD]
    [TD]Orton
    [/TD]
    [TD]Games
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]QB Rating
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Arizona
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]74
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Arizona
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]27.1
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Baltimore
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]47.5
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Baltimore
    [/TD]
    [TD]3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]85.1
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Carolina
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]87.1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Carolina
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]70
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Cincinnati
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]69.3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Cincinnati
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]42.6
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Cleveland
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]37.8
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Cleveland
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]84.1
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Detroit
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]72
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Detroit
    [/TD]
    [TD]4
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]102.2
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Green Bay
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]82.3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Green Bay
    [/TD]
    [TD]4
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]58.3
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Houston
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]78
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Houston
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]97.1
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Jacksonville
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]79.7
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Jacksonville
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]87.5
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Minnesota
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]106
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Minnesota
    [/TD]
    [TD]5
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]71.4
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs New England
    [/TD]
    [TD]4
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]73.2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs New England
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]96.7
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs New Orleans
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]45
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs New Orleans
    [/TD]
    [TD]3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]55.8
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs NY Jets
    [/TD]
    [TD]4
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]94.2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs NY Jets
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]71.8
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Oakland
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]100.3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Oakland
    [/TD]
    [TD]3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]86
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Pittsburgh
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]86.7
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Pittsburgh
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]55.1
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs San Diego
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]44.2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs San Diego
    [/TD]
    [TD]3
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]81.8
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Tampa Bay
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]68.6
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Tampa Bay
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]73.5
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]vs Tennessee
    [/TD]
    [TD]2
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]75.8
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]vs Tennessee
    [/TD]
    [TD]1
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]93.8
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Average
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]76.4
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Average
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]74.7
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a lot more general than saying how he performed on certain downs in a given season. It's just a point that sometimes stats without context are in fact useless. There's just so many factors that constantly get ignored and for which are almost impossible to account, but I don't want to go off on an argument about stats which has been done to death and it wasn't a knock on you, just those particular stats. Hey, I have to defend our new guy....that is until the trade turns out to be more pouring of s--t in a long line of s--t storms. :up::escape:
     
  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I've been saying pretty much the same thing about Henne. He wasn't our problem last year. It was Dan Henning who called horrible games and never set Henne up for success. That's why we lost games we shouldn't have. I mean, can anyone HONESTLY blame Henne for a loss when you're playing a team that's ranked 28th in the league against the run....and you run the ball only 7 times and throw it for 45 times?

    I honestly believe that with a new offensive coordinator that would call a balanced game and set Henne up for success, our offense as well as Henne himself would have greater success than they did last year, but for some unknown reason, it just seems there are so many people beating the drum to get Kyle Orton or some other FA QB.

    I just don't get it.

    :confused2:
     
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  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Why would anyone say that every single td came when trailing? lol. I'm saying his stats were padded b/c his putrid defense allowed him to pick up extra yards and TDs in garbage time.

    Case in point:
    2 TDs while trailing 17 pts & 21 pts (Ravens).
    2 TDs while trailing 38 pts (Raiders).
    1 TD trailing 16 pts at end of game (49ers).
    1 TD trailing 28 pts with 2 minutes left (SD).
    3 TDs trailing 21 pts in 4th qtr (Rams).
    *** 8 of his 20 TDs came when games were pretty much over.

    Conversely:
    -Orton had a chance to tie Jags with a minute left and threw an INT on 2nd down to lose the game.
    -Threw an INT in FG range early on vs Indy that allowed Manning a quick 13-0 lead rather than 7-6 Bronco lead. (Denver never recovered).
    -4th qtr fumble vs SanFran that sealed 49er victory.
    -Threw a pick 6 first play vs Oak to give Raiders a quick 14-0 lead (again Denver couldn't recover).



    FWIR, Orton said that he was benched for the end of the season (after losing 10-6 to KC when he was an abysmal 9/28 for 117 yards..... and then losing 43-13 to Zona while going 19/41 for 166 & 3 INTs).

    I'm not trying to knock the guy, but this could be another case where the grass appears greener. I'd be doing greater cartwheels (or even a single cartwheel) if we signed Zach Miller, Bradshaw, or stud to take our defense to elite land.
     
  34. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Kyle Orton is better than sex with a girl. And from what I hear, thats pretty good.
     
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  35. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    IMO there comes a point where a team is put in such a hole that it can actually help a QB stat wise despite the QB not helping the team in the win-loss column.

    Thanks to our decent defense, Henne was "in" more games than Orton, which I would argue makes it difficult to pad stats and also creates more high-pressure situations compared to passing against a defense when the game is out of hand b/c you allow nearly 30 pts/game. Our decent defense also routinely made Henne's job harder by allowing big scores in close games immediately after Henne marched the offense down the field. That's pressure; I don't think Orton saw that kind of pressure last year. If he did, his stats might look a little different (in a worse way).
     
  36. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    They'd put Jekyll & Hyde to shame.
     
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  37. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

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    JMO,

    I'm not sold on this trade. Kyle Orton on paper looks good against Henne only for his closing numbers (4th qtr) . Kyle Orton while probably the better QB now, has mostly reached his potential, while Henne still has alot of growth to do.

    Dont get me wrong Kyle is getting better, and the maturity helps. I think Henne should have one more full yr. He is not aweful imo and hasnt had the opportunity to really showcase.

    Im ok going with a new qb but if we get kyle, its gonna be what ifs all yr. what if Henne can throw that deepball, what if orton can run that two minute drill, etc etc etc
     
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  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    It's asinine to twist Orton's stats to suggest that he didn't pad his stats in garbage time.

    When behind by 1-7 pts, 58.5 QBR (128 attempts). 2 TDs, 6 INTs.
    When ahead by 1-7 pts, 70.5 QBR (35 attempts). 1 TD, 1 INT.

    When behind by 15-21 pts, 110.8 QBR (80 attempts). 4 TDs, 0 INT.
    When ahead by 15-21 pts, 144.4 QBR (13 attempts). 1 TD, 0 INT. (That's a lot of pass attempts when trailing by 15+ pts, and let's not forget--> a TD thrown while trailing 15+ pts in garbage time allows a QB to then pad his stats in the 8-14 or 1-7 pt range even though it's insignificant.)

    Seems like Orton has trouble when things are tight but excels during big leads or big deficits.


    Let's break it down specifically to see if it's significant garbage time production:
    1. 4th qtr TD after already leading Seattle 24-7.
    2. 2nd qtr TD after trailing Baltimore 17-0.
    3. 4th qtr TD, trailing Baltimore 31-10.
    4. 2nd qtr TD, trailing Oakland 38-0.
    5. 3rd qtr TD, trailing Oakland 7-38.
    6. 4th qtr last minute TD, trailing SanFran 24-10.
    7. 4th qtr TD, leading KC 42-17.
    8. 4th qtr TD, trailing SD 35-7.
    9. 4th qtr TD, trailing Rams 33-13.
    10. 4th qtr TD, trailing Rams 36-20.
    11. 4th qtr TD at end of game, trailing Rams 36-26.
    ***looks like garbage time stuff to me.


    Orton had 4 game winning drives (3 4th quarter comebacks) in 2009 & 2010.
    Henne had 4 game winning drives (3 4th quarter comebacks). Includes NE, NY, and Super Bowl Champ Packers (and should've been Steelers).


    Orton faced the 21st ranked Strength of Schedule.
    Henne faced the 3rd toughest.


    Sure, Orton has some nice highlight reel deep throws to Lloyd, but how about critical, drive-extending, 3rd down conversions (where Henne leads the NFL in conversion % in normal 3rd down situations)?
    Orton converted only 39 first downs in 120 attempts (32.5%) with a 59 QBR, 3 TDs, 5 INTs. Henne converted 60/142 (42.2%).

    In 3rd & 3-7:
    Orton converted 23/54 (42.6%), 45.8 QBR, 2 TDs, 4 INTs.
    Henne converted 35/55 (63.6%), 119 QBR, 4 TDs, 0 INTs.

    Inside the redzone:
    Orton-- 29 of 67, 43.3%, 13 TDs, 91.5 QBR. 1 TD per 19.4 attempts.
    Henne- 26 of 46, 56.5%, 10 TDs, 89.0 QBR. 1 TD per 21.7 attempts.
     
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  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I think I'm good now, Boik, thanks for asking.
     
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  40. Phintologist

    Phintologist New Member

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    Looking at the box scores some of your numbers were off

    I could go through anyone in the league season and pick out every bad moment and I could do it for Qbs and there would certain things that would stand out . When Im looking through these boxscores and play by pay at the games you are cherry picking for the first half of the season at least I dont see any plays by anyone else besides Orton and there passing game. Do you recall in the Cincy game how we had the lead and Cincy drove all the way down and then in our redzone the defense came away with the turnover to seal the game ? Well Orton didnt seem to get those types of plays . I didnt check them all but in the games you mentioned there are no forced turnovers or special teams play . Every highlight seems to be Orton to one of those receivers . Its almost as if you can say the Broncos have 10 highlights 9 would be from the passing game and then you say ooh look Orton made a mistake .I havent seen any tape but even those boxscores and play by play is kinda crazy .

    I thought he was hurt and then when healthy they told him Tebow would finish the season. ugh too much reading the past couple of days all the information is starting to be a blur
     

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