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The Good and the Bad...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Paul 13, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Seriously? I only saw very little of it and will watch the replay later but it sounds like we got an absolute steal in Jimmy Wilson and AJ Edds had a great game. And keep in mind out offense is going through a major change while Atlanta's is business as usual.

    And everyone says our starters on defense got thrashed by Atlanta's offense, but after the three and out at the beginning we pretty much sat down most of the starters if I'm not mistaken.

    People read too much into these preseason games.
     
  2. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I actually wasn't being sarcastic, which is why I laughed at your initial reply. I also like the fact that you don't make a big deal about it. Keep it up you giant munchkin...
     
  3. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    You pretty much beat me to it.
     
  4. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    First preseason game bro, after a lockout no less. Thats not an excuse but a fact. Theres still a lot of learning and a lot of training going on.
     
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  5. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok if you say so I will stop having an opinion of my own and just take yours ok?

    Seriously your reponse isnt any better.

    There is a simple solution as I posted in another thread. It will be proven 1 way or another, if that is fixed and doesnt happen again then maybe it was, but if it continues like it did last year then we know it is henne and like LaVicka said a few minutes ago on 760 , if after teh TB game teh issue persists then you have to think about Moore challenging seriously. But you cant just say dont throw it, cause what if it is a pass where the qb throws to a spot? You dont wait til teh receiver hits the spot you time the throw with the arrival of teh receiver, so if the receiver runs to the wrong spot then it makes qb look bad. I was a wr so I remember timing routes and getting chewed out cause I ran 2 yards short on teh route and teh pass went over my head but it was my fault. Not saying this is what happened, saying words are meaningless, the next couple weeks will be the proof or at least a sign indication.
     
  6. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    I know that i saw guys like Tyrone Culver covering Julio Jones fairly early. Which wouldn't have happened during a real game. At least not in the first qtr.
     
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  7. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Laughing but not surprised I bet !
     
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  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Henne so far in his career has never tanked or even threw a single int in a week 2 preseason game and last year he carved up the Jags to the tune of a 152 QB rating. Something like 11 for 14 and 2 TD passes, 10+ ypa. So since it is Carolina and we're at home, I'm kind of expecting Henne to turn in a pretty solid outing. Having said that, now I've probably jinxed him.. :)
     
  9. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Its Zach.
    and yeah, white MLB with a five on his chest who is all over the field? That sounds like Zach.
     
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  10. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Don't believe in myths but believe in jinxes? :tongue2:
     
  11. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Well for me I look at trying to see improvement in individual players, general strength in areas, and a "W" is not critical to be satisfied, although always nice to win.....
    QB I look for better accuracy, movement in the pocket, field awareness....

    Area I was concerned with was our RB situation, with the understanding that it is truly the first read on some of these players I was not impressed but it's way to early to make a call, glad to see more of an aerial approach because to be honest I wish we had picked up a RB that was proven and dependable......but we didn't and I have concern there...
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The good:

    Dolphins Back-ups: When was the last time you watched a Dolphins preseason game and was impressed by the back ups? Generally I am very disappointed by how crappy they are.
    Odrick: He looked good. High motor, one of the few starters on defense that wanted to be there.
    Pouncy: He looked good at center, made his blocks.
    Thomas: He looked quick on the catch, got up field quick.
    Livas: Even though I do not think he makes the team, he is making a strong case. I love the way he takes punts straight. He looks like he can be a 8 yard consistent punt returner who can occasionally break a long one.
    Gates: He has great speed and the Dolphins were throwing to him deep. He also had a touchdown on a play where he looked more like a receiver than a guy who has speed. Speed means nothing if you cannot prove to be a receiver, he showed flashes.
    Roberto Wallace: Only one preseason game, however he has shown improvement so far over last season. Which is what you hope for with a receiver like him. Very talented guy, and looks like he might be able to do something for the team this year in his back up role.
    Sapp: Probably one of the biggest Dolphins scape goats had a great game.
    Jimmy Wilson: Wow, I love this guy. He looked pretty good out there. Makes me feel better about losing Amaya.
    Matt Moore: Looks like a solid back up. An actual solid back up.
    Rose and Kearse: Both of them got a lot of penetration when they were in. Especially Rose who looked unblockable by the soon to be cut falcon linemen.

    The Bad:

    Nate Ness: Played the role of drum on friday.
    Fasano: Yes he should have caught the ball, however he also should have made his block. During one running play, every Falcon player had a man on him, except for Fasano's. All Fasano had to do was slow the man down, however he just bounced off of him. If Fasano cannot block well, then what is the point of him being a tight end? His receiver skills have always been just good enough. I hope he just didn't have his heart in the game due to preseason.
    Carroll: Well not bad, I just wasn't impressed.
    Dolphins starting defense: They had a good first drive, however after the interception it was like they didn't really want to play. Other than Clemmons, Jones and Odrick. Burnett also took some very bad angles.
    Willis: Cut him now. He looked terrible out there. So very terrible.

    Other observations:
    I thought Henne's footwork looked improved over last season. He looked more athletic running the ball and actually side stepped a rush. The thing that most annoyed me about the first interception to Fasano is how open Clay and Bess were in roughly the same area. I am not a fan of Fasano's hands, plus I would have loved to see Clay catch the ball.

    Overall I thought the first preseason game was fun to watch. It started out to be very painful, however the back ups proved to be pretty talented and fun to watch. Which is a huge change of pace over previous seasons when the backups were painful to watch.
     
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  13. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    I love it. It's what people are talking about not the "only thing they see". And you might want to parse out the reason why people are talking about the mistake. Is it to say Henne is terrible QB, or is it to refute what other posters are claiming.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I would liked us to have signed a proven young veteran RB, and one name we tossed around here was Jason Snelling who was out there for a while before resigning with Atlanta. Then he ran pretty good in the game and I was thinking, man we could have gotten him to backup Thomas, rather than just figuring Lex can do it when he has never shown much if any NFL level running skills.
     
  15. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Did you mean to say he had great balance instead?
     
  16. Abbi Normal

    Abbi Normal Banned

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    Really wanted Bradshaw, but when that fell through figure that we could sign Ronnie or Ricky but for some weird reason especially considering the talk of us being a run first offense, the FO didn't think it's necessary. Got a feeling they will down the road and I hope somebody of quality is released and the FO, backed into that all to familiar corner IMO (usually OL), will have no choice but to see and fill that slot.
     
  17. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for posting this. It looks to me like the CB bit on the play fake, Henne read it and expected Bess to be ready for the quick pass...this I like...then he became locked in on Bess and seemingly didn't see the CB recover and threw it late. I don't like seeing Henne get locked in like that, but I expect this is something Daboll/Dorell can and will correct. Plus the DB made a hell of a recovery IMO.
     
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  18. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I hope you meant to say "on" his ***. "in" his *** would certainly be cause for concern. I would certainly be calling for Moore at that point... or is it less?
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    C'mon, man. Can you really say that with a straight face? The defense acted like a sieve...because Jason Taylor didn't play? Really?

    And so what we didn't game plan. Neither did they. They're just better. A lot better.
     
  20. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Watching that I saw a pass that shouldnt have been thrown. It may heve been miscommunication but there was as ea of red, I would have looked left as there had to be less coverage on that side.
     
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  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I didn't see lack of balance to an alarming degree with Livas. On his TD, he did especially well to keep his feet when one of the last defenders tried to trip him up.
    What I would be concerned with on little dudes like Livas, is most have small hands, so do they reliably judge the flight of and field punts and kickoffs without juggling them or having to double catch? If used in the passing game are they able to do more than body catch? Are they able to maintain good ball security when tacklers are hitting them, or going for a strip? If smurf types can do well in those areas, they got a much better chance of playing in the pros.
    Remember that Livas clone we had about 3 yrs ago or so from New Mexico St, Chris Williams I think his name was? Fast like Livas, productive college returner like Livas. Tiny like Livas, but when we had him in camp he looked terrible judging and catching punts and kicks. Dropped one in a game or so I recall, played one off his helmet too. Tony looked so exasperated and disappointed after the one punt bounced off Williams helmet. Livas though, he brings the ball in fielding punts and kicks as if he were a magnet and the ball was metal. The way LA Tech used him on sweeps and short passes, it was like someone else here said, he kind of reminds of Dexter McCluster in the open field. Hope we can try him with some success in those ways too.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What a refreshingly honest assessment.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It was also Lydon Murtha, not Marc "Joe" Colombo.
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    See how that works KM?

    It is especially true of NFL players, we only see their performance through a straw as it were, and yet instantly "we" are experts.
     
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  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Broke 3 tackles on his TD return, and sort of proved my side of the "value of ST" debate you and I have had, 1 game like that, in the regular season, justifies his roster spot, 2 games and he'd be an All Pro, now do not go over the cliff and say "Padre said Livas would be an All Pro!".

    No, what I am saying it is hard to find players who can take over a game via quality performance and basically lead their team to 1 win, let alone 2 wins, they are coveted and difficult to find, when you do find one, be they a Returner, a Te or a NT, you have to keep them.

    It was just one dorky preseason game, however if he continues that level of play, whether it produces TD or not, we have to find a way to keep them as guys like that do not hang out on the waiver wire.

    Just off of memory:

    3 kick off returns, each time out to the 30, once he spun off of the kicker and simply lost momentum
    2 punt returns, one the 74 yd TD

    THAT is how you generate field position and even flip the field, now Fields can pin the opponent inside their 20 even if we go 3 and out on Offense.
     
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  26. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB


    If you KNOW a receiver is going to run the wrong route, of course you don't know. Problem is you don't know. Your supposed to get the ball out quickly, a lot of the time before the receiver makes his cut. If Henne threw the ball where the receiver was supposed to be, and the receiver cut the wrong way, then that's on the receiver. It happens to ALL QBs. Not just Henne. In fact, I hate the fact that QBs have dents put in their personal stats because the receiver ran the wrong route or a ball bounces off a receiver's hands. I hate it because I played QB for a long time, and it happened to me multiple times. In the case of the "wrong route" in the game, I have no idea if that's the case. Haven't heard and don't care. Could have been an option route and Henne thought the WR was going one way but he went another. Looking at it, it wasn't a bad pass that sailed or anything like that. There was obviously a miscue somewhere - just don't know who to blame.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    No Taylor isn't going to magically make the D a stone wall all by himself, but he will be a solid contributor this season and is one of our better defenders. Who knows what would have happened, had he played. I would not assume a total non factor though.
    Probably the biggest difference is Atlanta has been playing the same offense since 2008, and had their entire starting lineup for the 2 series and most of them for the first 3. Training camp has been just a continuation of the last 3 seasons for them and they return 9 of 11 offensive starters. Only Jones and Reynolds are new starters this season. It is doubtful any defense that does not game plan for them is going to slow them down and many won't anyway.
    Our offense has so far only been minimally installed and with 3 of our best players missing to boot, it seems logical to me, our offense is not going to be clicking like Atlanta's was.
    I don't know how much, if any, that Atlanta game planned. I heard what Sparano said. I never heard Smith say one way or the other.
    More than being just better talent across the board, they have continuity in the same system.
     
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  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Tell Ted Ginn that.
     
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  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If they just had their minds made up of no Ronnie or Ricky anymore, then why not sign a guy like Willis McGahee? I think he would have been an ideal backup to Thomas. Still got some tread left, maybe gotten a hometown discount too.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Or Offerdahl :up:
     
  31. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not anointing Hartline, only saying that he had another example of him being able to create a big play.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So then your argument hinges on the possibility that Jason Taylor would have stopped those drives, and the possibility that they game planned us?

    Also it should be noted that what we're talking about is not necessarily offense versus offense but offense versus defense. We have continuity in our defense, they have continuity in their offense.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree. I think Miami's WRs unit is going to be very good this year.
     
  34. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    just saw henne's first INT to fasano on nfl network, 2 important things to me about the play. 1 the ball could have been thrown better,,, for sure it was poorly placed just behind fasano. 2 the ball should have been caught, it was not that difficult of a catch. thats my in depth analysis for what its worth.
     
  35. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Along with the fact that they played their starting offense considerably longer than we did our starting defense.

    You can also add the possibility of our offense doing a little more in the 1st quarter if we had our best players active.
     
  36. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    Just saw henne's 2nd INT trying to hit bess. that throw should not have been made, surrounded by defenders. wrong route or not, and it may have been the wrong route, henne double clutched like he saw something amiss, not a pump fake imo. then he decided to make the throw, thats a bad decision on his part. theres my in depth analysis on int #2.
     
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  37. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Somebody get this guy a guru badge...

    JK...actually I agree on both your posts about Hennes INTs. Spot on analysis...
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'm not arguing anything. I'm giving my opinions. If you take note again of my post you responded first to, where I was responding to PSG, I summed up what I said with "How can anyone draw much of a complete conclusion from what happened yesterday?" Which is what it appeared to me he was doing.
    If you believe you can draw some solid complete conclusions based on that game, good for you. A game where we have our new offense only partially installed, and are resting several key players, well that's certainly your right to have that opinion.
    Like I said before, which you seem to have ignored, my belief is based on this as for our D and their O: "Probably the biggest difference is Atlanta has been playing the same offense since 2008, and had their entire starting lineup for the 2 series and most of them for the first 3. Training camp has been just a continuation of the last 3 seasons for them and they return 9 of 11 offensive starters. Only Jones and Reynolds are new starters this season. It is doubtful any defense that does not game plan for them is going to slow them down and many won't anyway."

    As for our O vs their D, like I said before: "Our offense has so far only been minimally installed and with 3 of our best players missing to boot, it seems logical to me, our offense is not going to be clicking like Atlanta's was." Unless of course Atlanta had a below average talent level on their D, which they don't. Then I guess one could make the argument of "wow, we couldn't move the ball on those stiffs?"
     
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  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Our 3 best offensive players were on the sidelines, and yet, we have ledge climbers already?

    You know what I'm saying slick, I just enjoyed the game, lots of big plays, no need to overthink it.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not sure you can back that one up there. Define "considerably longer". In their second touchdown drive Miami had a mix of starters in on defense for the first two plays and went to what looked like all backups by the 3rd play, the reverse to Julio Jones. The Falcons started going to backups like Jason Snelling and Eric Weems on the 4th play. By the 6th play (2nd & 9 from the 38), Roddy White was also out, and from then on the skill position players were all backups. Matt Ryan and the OL were the only starters still in.

    You could indeed add that. IF we were talking about the offense's rather pitiful performance. But we weren't. The defense's caving in disturbed me more than the offense's non-existence.
     

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