But if you say that I can turn around and say well he could have thrown it somewhat behind on purpose throwing into a window because of the defender but threw it slightly more behind than intended. The point is we would all love to see run after the catch but the fact is none of that is known, whether it was possible to even run after catch, there were 2 to 3 defenders in the area, whether it was intended to be in a window slightly behind based on coverage, whther Fasano would have caught it if it was farther in front, you just dont know. The only thing I take any issue was and is Henne being blamed for that int. He simply is not at fault and I cannt be convined he plays a role. Everything else I am not debating because I dont know if the intent was to throw to a window because of the outside defender. I also take issue with anyone that belittles me because I dont suggest that someone can say with certainty what would have happend in a perfect environment. I would have loved to have seen what kind of play could have been made if Henne would have looked left on the second int had he not locked on Bess. But it is irrelevant, he did it and it was a mistake and he owns it. Fasano had the ball hit him in the hands and he let it thru to his chest and as a result was intercepted
That's where we definitely do not see eye to eye. I blame Fasano but Henne surely played a role... sorry
well agree to disagree. If fasono batted it in the air its his fault. trying to extrapilate that if Henne threw it out front it wouldnt have been batted in the air and niot intercepted is conjecture
I kept reading that Edds had a sack, and after watching the game twice, I never saw it. So I checked the nfl.com play by play. The Atlanta station which is what they offer on nfl.com, missed the first two plays after the missed FG by Carp because they came back late from a a commercial break and never replayed it. So we don't see Edds' sack or Wilson's PI. Those Atlanta bastards anyway.
Which are all things Polite does not do particularly well. I think, in terms of versatility, they like Polite's ability to run the ball if need be, but he's shown himself to be a mediocre option out of the backfield, even for a fullback. Ultimately, they need to figure out which Polite they're going to get. If it's the sub-mediocre blocker of 2010 and 2008, then the guy needs to go. That player brings very little to the table. If he's the 2009 Polite, then they need to figure out how much they're going to use a traditional fullback. Based on what we've heard and what we saw against Atlanta, it seems to me that this team is going to more 3WR and 1TE/1H-back looks. So if a traditional fullback is only going to be on the field 10 plays a game (because I doubt we'll see Polite in shotgun looks very much this year -- he's not a good pass protector and, as I said, not a threat in the passing game), then they need to start thinking about maximizing their game day roster to their best advantage. I actually thought Lex Hilliard showed promise as a fullback last year. Ultimately, I think he could end up as our best option going forward as a LaRon McClain type player. He has natural power and is an effective player in the passing game.
Its a new offense, but last year Lex said that the coaches had him learning the position, I'd like to see that vision come to fruition..He's got hands, he can pass block, can run the ball some, and he can play special teams well, all 4 things Polite cannot do as well. Is his run blocking and short yardage instincts as good as Polite, Probably not, does Daboll use a fullback in this offense?, well he did with Vickers.. Its gonna be an interesting decision.. Polite came out vrs the Falcons as a captain..
Yeah I wondered what had happened there, they said something about a loss of six and then the pi... loss of six? well now I know. A Dolphin linebacker named AJ? hmmm... In time, it could very well be Edds and Dansby inside.
If we spent just the same amount of time and effort given to analysis of each other on the team, its coaching and its front office, the quality quotient of the site would go through the roof. Then again, we'd have to pay for a new roof.
He did; Fact is, Odrick was right up on it too, but Edds wrapped up before Odrick could even touch the QB.
I'm in Miami now and for the foreseeable future. We get the games live on Ch4...hey, there's got to be something good about living with 95° heat and 100% humidity, and mosquitoes the size of Escalades. Did you know that Dengue fever is making a comeback here? Yeah...good times.
Good for you man. No more Sealth for a while huh? I've been told or read over here in SEA that Dengue mosquitoes live in sand and come out around dusk when the temperature drops to a certain level. So it is recommended not to be on a beach at sunset...really.
He could have led him a bit more. The defender wasn't directly in front of Fasano. He was a little further back. Should Fasano have caught the ball?..sure, but I think what is so bothering to some is that everything was just so eerily similar to the way Henne's played in the past. Granted, it was only the first preseason game, but I just don't think we saw the improvements which we all hoped to see. Could we still?...sure, but again, eerily similar to the past. One concern which I had with his play in the past was that most of his passes seemed to have that one trajectory and velocity. I'm not saying that was the problem with the first int, just eerily similar. That comes down to the touch and accuracy issues. He did improve on his touch later in the season last year, but I think we just expected or hoped to see more progression and improvements from him, but this just seems to be the same old thing; ....the team does not produce as expected, he makes some mistakes and we come here and argue endlessly about him with the same criticisms, defenses, attacking, excuses, etc, etc, etc. AGAIN...eerily similar. I just yearn for the day when we don't or can't come here after a game and endlessly go over the same old QB BS. I yearn for the day when we can come here and endlessly debate and argue about anything else.....like our back-up kicker or something. Well...
I think you hit the nail on the head, people saw int and automatically reverted to last year. I definitely saw improvement. I saw him in command, he kept his cool, he didnt look flustered, he didnt look scared. he fought, he took ownership by going to talk to hartline and Bess after miscommunications, barked at Murtha for false start. he did tho have that bad decision in teh 2nd int but at least this time it was trying to be aggressive rather than throwing that dumb int on a dumpoff checkdown. But it was a bad decision to throw it even tho it may have been wrong route if it was. I just hate how it just feels like people are sitting their waiting to say see I was right. I mean even if he should have lead him further in front, Fasano batted the ball up and that allowed the easy int. Brady has thrown so many balls that are not exxactly perfect but are catchable and actually caught. Henne needs to progress but he showed some things to me. it was week 1, week 2 should bring more progress. It was also potentially test Henne's mental toughness as it is at home with apprehensive fans. so he will have to shut that out and perform.
And I honestly think that's a projection on your part. The problem is, if a person has gone on record detailing what he doesn't like about Chad Henne's game, and then Chad Henne has an outing where he shows many of the problems that person identified, that person is now faced with the fact that he can't give an honest assessment of the outing without people like you projecting things onto him and accusing him of bias and pouncing on any opportunity to say "see I told you so". So even though it might not be your conscious intent, what you're demanding is that after a showing like this, people who criticized Henne should just shut up and let us try and find things to like about what he did in peace. Anything they say is "pouncing", or "bias", or "rubbing it in" or "talking down" to people, etc. I think people just need to toughen up and stop being so sensitive to differences of opinion. Chad Henne showed me many of the same things I didn't like about him. There was the inability to process the field quickly and accurately, especially off play-action, that led to one interception. There was poor ball placement which contributed to another interception. To me it wasn't a different or improved guy. And I'm not even blaming him for the miscues. On 9 dropbacks he ended up throwing to 2 guys who were running the wrong route. Who knows how often that may have happened that we don't know about because he didn't throw him. On another play there was what I thought had to be a protection miscommunication with that corner blitz, whether it was the QB or someone else I don't really know and don't really care because that's not my point. My point is there was a level of sloppiness in the execution of the offense which we ALWAYS knew would be coming due to the lockout, and I'm not saying it's anyone's fault (before I get people jumping on my case about it), but the fact of the matter is it's there, and the season starts in a month. It sort of just drives home how Miami has a natural disadvantage relative to other teams because they're re-vamping the offensive system during an off season that's not conducive to re-vamping your offensive system. And I think the defense leaking like a sieve disturbed me most of all. I hear the argument that the Falcons' offense is well established and talented, and no defense should be able to stop an offense like that unless they game plan...but I don't agree with it. I didn't see other well established 1st/2nd string offenses this weekend having their way with 1st/2nd string defenses just because there was no game planning. Some did. Others didn't. I'd have much preferred we were among those that didn't allow that.
Why can't both players have not done what they were supposed to do? Henne's throw doesn't absolve Fasano's drop. Fasano's drop doesn't absolve Henne's throw. They both weren't good enough.
Exactly. I think too many people have this idea that a play is one thing, to be "blamed" on one player. Yeah, there's partial blame, but whoever was "mostly" to blame in effect gets the blame while the other partials get away with it. That's not how you look at things if you're grading individual players though. That's because if you're grading individual players, you don't get caught up in the results. From the perspective of grading Chad Henne, I don't care that the Fasano throw was an interception. I care that Chad Henne didn't execute it well, and that lack of execution draws a negative grade because when you execute sloppily like that you're prone to bad results. If you throw with poor ball placement, you live with the consequences. Poor ball placement is going to lead to drops, interceptions and offensive inefficiency. On the other hand if I'm grading Anthony Fasano individually, I'm looking at that play and saying, what the hell were you thinking? Catching that ball wouldn't have been on highlight reels from the weekend. You weren't asked to look like Larry Fitzgerald on that one. You flubbed the ball, and that's a negative, because when you flub the ball like that, bad things happen. It's either a drop, or in some cases it ends up an interception.
Unfortunately, the Henne debate has so consumed everything else that every throw, every decision is a referrendum on the guy. I'm no fan of his and thought he looked like pretty much the same guy on Friday that we;ve seen for two years, but the debate over the minutae of what percentage a particular guy was at fault for a bad play is just stupid, and counterproductive.
One thing that was really encouraging was how wide open Brian Hartline and Roberto Wallace got on those vertical routes that went for TDs. It's just something that if you think about, that hasn't happened in Miami much over the years. You see it happen with other teams. Whether that was just sloppy communications between the Falcons' backups or what, I don't know...but it was encouraging.
You realize that his long pass to Hartline for the TD was off of play action, right? Again, I don't think it's the fact that you haev the opinion you do about Henne, it's the way you present it as gospel. On top of that, it seems to me that your opinions of Henne after this game was based more on what he did last season without accounting for the lockout, 1st preseason game, no game planning, new OC, no Long, no Marshall, no Bush, etc etc. Instead you harp on two INT's, one of which was not his fault in the least. Again, if Fasano had dropped that ball and it hit the ground instead of tipping it to the defender for the INT people would have either called him out on it or said nothing at all. Since it was intercepted though it's just another perceived wrong by Henne that people with preconceived notions can use against him.
How exactly? lol..The ball hit Fasano in the hands. The pass was good enough to be caught. It should have been an easy catch for an NFL TE.
This is what I am most excited about. Last year we had no running game and no ability to make big plays. We had to have perfect 13-play drives all the way down the field. Henne is not a good enough QB to have success in an offense like that. I'm hoping this year we can create some big plays and open up the running game a bit to help the offense out as a whole. How many times last year did a team get a quick-strike score and take us completely out of the game? We had no answer.
All NFL teams went through the same lockout. all have had the same training camp schedules. And yet most of the starting QB's in the league, not just the top guys, managed to look great. It's the preseason and in additon to meaning nothing it should also be easier for good QB's as CK has correctly pointed out. Seriously, look at some of the numbers. Colt McCoy, 9-10, Stafford, 7-8, 2TD's, Freeman 9-13, etc. Even Ryan ended up 6-10 after his 0-3 start. And some of these QB's are also in a new offense.
In the midst of insanity a sane idea breaks out: By the time most of the Dolphins’ players and coaches cleared out of the team’s indoor training facility at 9:15 p.m. Saturday, quarterback Chad Henne and tight end Anthony Fasano were working overtime. One throw after another, one route after the next, they attempted to fix an issue that became magnified during Friday’s exhibition opener, when a pass thrown slightly behind Fasano hit his hands and deflected into the arms of a defender. “It was a catchable ball,” Fasano said after a 20-minute private session after practice. “So you learn from it. You fix it. I wasn’t happy with my performance, but it’s all very fixable things. Our shortcomings are correctable mistakes. Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/14/2358467/mistakes-in-miami-dolphins-opener.html#ixzz1V72wikDI
No, the pass wasn't in the place it was supposed to be. Thats not good enough in the context we are dealing with.
That's just not true. Ryan went 0-4 with one pass almost picked by VD before the Dolphins started to sub thier starters. Also, those other guys don't have new OC's and most had their entire offense playing... where as Long, Bush, and Marshall weren't.
Wow long post to not address my point at all. My pointy isnt that I dont have bias and you do, its that we all do, including me. I am not professing to be 100% objective, are you? It is where you place the focus. You keep saying well we criticize the bad decision as it was the same as what e have seen from him before and so when we see that again we are critical. I dont disagree with that plays assessment at all, it was a a bonehead decision. and thats where the issue starts, whether it is your intent or the intent of others, you want to stop there and say your position is right. You dont acknowledge that he didnt falter after that, you dont say anything about better pocket presence. But you dont have to, you dont have to believe that means anything in Henne becoming a qb. it is the dismissal of anyones opinion that says it does. You are not posting that Hennes pick concerns you, that he has to pick it up, you are out there saying henne doesnt have it and wont succeed. or you dont believe he will be successful and then use the 1 bad pass and act as if your position is validated by it. If anyone disagrees they are wrong. not you believe they are wrong, but they ARE wrong. I dont discount anyones opinion that henne will be great, I dont know that, not even sure I believe that. What I ont care for is if I say well its a new offense I want to see what Henne does and think he could turn it around and then sommeone comes on and doesnt say I think you are wong and here is why, it is just dismissed off hand as not having any potential to be validated You can sit there and say i you are critical of henne you get attacked, yet you actually think if someone says something positive about henne their opinions are respected? But of course they arent because they dont deserve to be right?
I definitely don't agree with the bolded. And of the QBs you mentioned, aside from McCoy I'd expect those guys to look better than Henne simply because I think they are much better players. And I didn't actually think Ryan looked all that great, he was pretty good though.
At the end of the day, preseason, espescially the first game, should be easier for a QB. Many QB's made it look easy. Henne did not. That's my only point.
I think the problem people have with this is that it was a very catchable ball - and if it were caught, we wouldn't even be having these discussions.
Sure it is. The WR doesn't just get to stand there and have the ball his him perfectly in stride 100% of the time. The WR is expected to adjust on EVERY throw. Fasano had a ball hit him in both hands. He tipped it up into the defenders hands for the INT. 100% Fasano's fault.
This took me a couple days, but i finally figured out what these guys are saying. If that pass was completed, when they go through and do their analysis of the game, that pass would not have been graded high because he did not lead his receiver.
Again, I see a lot of PROJECTION from you on this. You're projecting things onto me that aren't there. That is the primary problem. You should stop doing that. If I say Henne will probably not succeed as a pro, so what? That's my opinion? Do I ask you to get all uppity and offended by it? No.
