It's not about Fasano. It's about half this board trying to glorify & twist every minute detail into somehow making Henne look like a bad QB b/c of this particular throw. It's the most out of control thing I've ever seen. I would understand if EVERY throw were put under a microscope like this, but they're not. Where are the 700 posts about the outstanding throw Henne makes to a diving Bess near the sideline that's in a spot where only Bess can get it? Nope, nothing. Where are the 700 posts on his deep ball accuracy when that's what people complained about last year? Don't see any. How about his vastly improved feet and apparently improved pocket presence? Nope, no 700 posts there either. However, we did manage to get one of the most outspoken Henne non-supporters to ignore this improvement and instead say that Henne has poor pocket presence while his release was impeded during a whiffed Thomas block.
It's easier to bring his TV to me than for me to bring myself to his TV. So... Does he know his TV is missing? Probably....
See the only reason this part is in contention is because people disagree with it or are using this as a "call to arms" to defend Henne. This is not a one sided argument. If the other side would just say, "You are right, that wasn't a good pass, but look at his good feet." However they are not, they are doing everything they can to try to change reality that it was a good throw. Every throw is under the microscope, this is the only one that has caught the people's attention.
Sure it does. It may not be the best throw, but if every single pass a QB threw hit a receiver in both hands he'd probably have a 90% completion rating. Any pass that has a 90+% chance of getting caught is a good throw. If someone gave you $10 million tax free would you call it not good because someone else was given $20 million tax free? Of course not. Of course one is better than the other, but neither is bad. A pass that lands in both the WR's hands with enough touch to be an easy catch and enough velocity to get there on time, leads the WR in order to not only gain YAC, but avoid a hit from a DB, and gets the 1st down or scores a TD is a perfect pass. I'd bet that in a game those types of throws happen less than 50% of the time from ANY QB. A pass that hits a WR in BOTH friggen hands is a good pass.
Yes, it was a bad play by Fasano. The reason nobody is discussing it, is because nobody is debating that he should have made the catch, and it was egregious that he did not. I don't think that has been proven false. Ball placement is subjective, so you'll have a hard time proving anything. If you feel the ball should have been thrown to where it was, and not placed elsewhere, then you're free to that opinion. He didn't whiff on the block. He impeded the rusher. Sure, you would like to see him keep the SAM from getting that close to Henne, but was that even possible??? I would say that Thomas did a very good job there, and Pouncey is responsible for that one. You believe these details to be minute, but many people do not. If you choose not to get into them, then that is fine. But people certainly have the right to discuss these details. These are the type of things the coaches will mention when they watch this play.
Thomas recognizing that looped rush (or whatever the hell it's called) by the LB and actually picking it up is amazing for a rookie with zero rookie camps and zero mini camps, imo. He has two weeks of NFL practice and had the awareness to pick that up.
layin in my bed reading all this, went up started the gamepass, look for the pass....FREEZE the defender is 3,5 yards away already on his way to fasano, if he leads him more and fasano turns after catching it...he gets hammered
I am complete disagreement. He doesn't get hammered. Plus leading Fasano puts him closer to the sideline and not closer to the defender.
I've already complimented Thomas for having the awareness to pick up Weatherspoon. However, once he got there, he pretty much whiffed on his attempt. And contrary to what Stringer is trying to infer, it's not like Thomas was going against a seasoned pass rusher.
Huh? When did I say anything about the passrusher? All I said was that Weatherspoon most likely wasn't Thomas' responsibility. He couldn't have gotten to Weatherspoon any faster, and once he did, he wasn't in any position to get a good block.
That's what I wrote around 14,312 posts ago. lol However, CK swears that he's 7 yards north and 7 yards west of Fasano...Wait..what defender, according to CK he's not in the frame when the ball hits Fasano. lol
i stand by my impression, but to put this to an end, maybe we just save this picture and call it....A CATCH ???
Wrong defender, he's actually referring to the outside defender, Dunta Robinson I believe. Fasano can't see him b/c he's turned to look for the ball, but Henne can definitely see him and it's not all impossible that the throw went where it did b/c Henne didn't want to lead Fas into a kill zone. There's no guarantee that Fas catches that ball with enough spare time to get his head around, find Robinson & protect himself and even if he does it's still going to be no more than a 5-6 yd gain so why take the risk? Also, please note that Fas is attempting to catch the ball with his hands.
Fair enough. But lets say hypothetically that you're concerned about leading Fas too far to the outside b/c there's a defender there, would you shade the pass further inside than you normally would?
That is the defender I am talking about. It is a bigger risk to throw the ball on the back shoulder because if the receiver drops the ball it pops up and can get intercepted. Please note, he fails.
yes, it does put Fasano closer to the sideline, but does Henne KNOW Fasano's not going to get hammered? Henne knows that a DB is lurking nearby on the outside, but just b/c WE can see the defender is further away, we cant assume that Henne can see it with 5 lineman grouped to his left. Maybe, just perhaps maybe Fasano should've sat down right there (where the soft spot is likely anticipated prior to the snap based on the coverage) rather than taking his route into where coverage may have been depending on how the outside DB decided to play it on that particular play. The distance of how far away the DB ended up being (after the play transpires) should be irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he's 1 foot away or at the Gatorade stand. The coverage is what should be relevant. If the outside defender is in zone, then there should be no reason why Fasano should be taking his route into it no matter how far away the DB ends up being. If the DB is in zone then we have to assume it's possible he could end up being in a closer position to make a play. You cant just say after the fact that, b/c he WASN'T closer, the throw should've been somewhere else etc etc.
Nice freeze frame. Your judgment of the distance is incorrect. I don't mean any offense by that. Vertically you're right, it's betwee 3 and 5 yards. But there's also a horizontal distance, which you need to calculate in order to calculate the straight line distance (hypotenuse). In this case the horizontal distance was about 15 feet (just over, I calculated it using screen shots from the end zone cam). That means that Dunta Robinson was actually between 6 and 7 yards away from Fasano. Robinson wasn't really a factor in the placement of the ball. I think Todd is closer to the mark when he talks about the blitzing LB #56 and how he was getting into Henne's personal space just as he was throwing the ball. I think it was a combination of the two, inaccuracy and the pressure. The pressure bothers me because he showed pretty dead feet on the 3 step drop and never even reacted whatsoever when that blitzing linebacker uncovered and flashed right up the middle of a huge gaping hole in the blocking. And no, that's not a good thing (lack of reaction). A QB should not overreact in those situations but he SHOULD react, his feet are there for a reason, use them...slide, continue backward, do something, make sure you've got the space to throw the ball.
Most likely not. If I see Robinson breaking toward Fasano, I'd probably just throw the ball to Clay. Best case with throwing the ball to Fasano on his inside shoulder is he catches the ball and is immediately tackled for a short gain. If you throw the ball to Clay right there, you're putting him 1-on-1 with Dunta Robinson, and he at least has a shot at making something happen. Plus the risk is much higher throwing to Fasano and making him adjust to the ball with 3 defenders around him. It could also be possible that Henne saw Robinson and thought that an inaccurate pass to Fasano's outside shoulder could lead to an INT, so he threw it inside. But that would probably be the worst thing that could have happened.
If that's the case then why would you say this?: Robinson is between Fasano and the sideline so if Fasano moves closer to sideline then he's also moving closer to Robinson. If the ball is thrown outside there's a chance Fasano bobbles it anyway and it goes into the hands of a closing Robinson who's in a better position to score once he has it so either way a popped up ball has a good chance of becoming a pick in that spot. And your point was that Fasano catches most balls with his arms, not that he fails to catch balls with his hands. You've got some nerve questioning the seriousness of others' arguments my friend.
if someone watches that game again. , i notice a little "tick" just after henne rls the ball, maybe he got hit on his follow through, but i still consider this a "receiver friendly" throw
probably true, but you still have to try to "protect" your players, even if a 180 pound CB is coming your way
i was going to say that about clay too, but i was kind of scared of the "then henne's field vision sucks" replies
Robinson is not between Fasano and the sideline. Robinson is 3 to 5 yards down the field of Fasano. Throwing the ball more towards the side line takes Fasano closer to the sideline, not really close to Robinson. To lead Fasano to getting "smashed" Henne would have to over throw Fasano. My point was he catches most balls with his arms, he has a problem catching with his sands. Which is why I was writing how he has a problem catching the ball with his hands.
This picture shows perfectly the defender is a good amount away, he should of been lead. Henne missed that throw by a good 3 feet.
like I said--YOU can see the defender but that doesn't mean henne can with 5 linemen there. If he's reading zone then it shouldn't matter how far away the defender ends up being.
Yea, but that means what exactly? nothing. It was a bad throw, plain and simple. Fasano should of caught it but was not where it was suppose to be.
Just for the sake of getting this thread to 1,000 posts, has it been discussed that Clay was wide open and he chose to throw to a less open receiver, Fasano? What does that say about Henne seeing the field or his ability to read defenses? Does Henne stick with his presnap read to much here or is a simple of case that Fasano was open just like Clay so either one is the right answer? EDIT: Clay is in the flat as well. Further outside of Fasano. Click for a larger picture.. I think.
Just b/c OUR viewpoint from above shows Clay is open doesn't mean Henne can see him or even has a throwing lane open with Incognito, Pouncey, and a defender there. Also, Fasano could very well be the primary target. Where Henne is looking makes it seem that way. Plus it's a 3 step drop and there's a blitzing LB coming; I dont think Henne's going to take time scanning the field when it's clear Fasano has position on the LB. If he's option one, then that's where it's going. It's potentially silly to blame Henne for not throwing to Clay when we don't know all the details of the play and couldn't see the field from Henne's vantage point.
Which is why I place the pass where Fasano, this bigger player, can see Robinson coming. The smaller player tends to tackle the much bigger players low...
I don't think fans <who have never played QB in any padded 11 vs 11 game> realize you can't always see everything on the field (regarding Clay being open). Sometimes there's #$%# blocking your vantage point. When you have a wall of 6'5 to 6'7, 300+ pound lineman out there who aren't made of glass, you're not always going to see what's happening beyond them. That's why you need passing lanes, and that's one reason Brady is able to be so effective----> his line does a tremendous job creating them. When I played, I didn't even have guys that big in front of me, and sometimes all I saw were helmets flashing across the field, not even a body, just a glimpse of a helmet..... and within a fraction of a second you're trying to fill in all the blanks based on that one glimpse. Sometimes it's not even a whole helmet; sometimes it's a piece of a helmet, and the color of it is the only thing distinguishing whether it's your guy or a defender.
Unless you know the play call and/or route combo then you have no clue where the throw was "supposed to be", so don't pretend like you do. If it's an out route then it should have been further outside, if its an option route or a curl then perhaps Fasano is the one who wasn't where he was supposed to be. If the throw was affected by the DT in Henne's face or Henne was leery of throwing him into an oncoming defender then the throw wasn't really off target at all.
Agreed... notice we haven't heard from Mr 82 incher himself, Stitches. He probably can't find his keyboard by feel.
From what I see Robinson was splitting the difference between Clay and Fasano and doesn't break until the throwing motion has already begun. I agree that a short gain is the best case scenario, but even if the throw was off target as people want to claim, a perfect throw (further outside) doesn't result in any bigger of a gain. If you throw the ball to Clay in that spot you're going to have to reposition in order to avoid the rush, giving Robinson ample time to get back into position. like Todd said, Henne cant win.
