Friday Morning Discussion: If Fins start out 0-4 under Sparano...

I don't agree because if this season turns out the same as I believe it will, its another year wasted with a group that just doesn't get it. Its the old bang your head into the wall argument. Your chances of winning with another bunch this year would be just as good as winning with this bunch. We know what these guys bring to the table - it hasn't worked, so its time to move on.

 

Just to clarify bro. I'm just joking around here. Every thread we go into is gloom and doom and fire him and bickering. Just trying to lighten the mood a lil bit. I'm sure we'll have enough to be happy and sad about soon enough.

 

I don't agree with even discussing this right now, cause I have hope, and I think we will seriously surprise ALOT of people this year. However, to answer the question......

Fire him. The proof is in the pudding that Ross wanted to upgrade this offseason, it's almost a lame duck year. If Sporano can get us 9-10 wins, he's golden, the players like him. But if he starts out 0-4, after the home woes we had last year, the fiasco of the past offseason, the scrutiny, the MONEY that Ross has paid.....there needs to be change, because god knows he will be fired in the offseason anyways, so why wait?

Ross has paid alot of money and deserves to see results, if he doesnt, tony is gone. Period.

 

We don't deserve anything as fans, certainly not better or worse. I support the team because I enjoy it. I enjoy the history, I enjoy the players, I enjoy the games, I enjoy talking about the team. We could have a losing record for the next 10 years and I wouldn't feel I deserve any better. I don't measure my fandom by saying "oh look at me, my favorite team won the super bowl so I'm better than you, you, and you. Neener, neener, neener." If we win, wonderful, but if we don't there's always next time. Sure I'm emotionally invested in the team to a degree, but it's not like a win or loss actually changes my life like it might a player's or coach's. You will probably characterize me as saying I'm part of the problem because I "accept mediocrity." Well you know what, maybe I do. And that's because I actually don't affect what gets put out on the field. If I get in a hissy fit over a loss, or a losing season, it won't change anything. I have my own job and home life to get upset about when things go bad. In those situations I may deserve better, because it will be me choosing how hard I work and how much time I put in in order to affect my own outcomes. But as a fan I don't deserve better. I deserve to appreciate and enjoy the ups and downs that are associated with me following Miami Dolphins football, I'm owed nothing more. This team (and website) is an escape. It's something I look forward to each year and each day. I've been given countless hours of entertainment, joy, sorrow, glee, disappointment, and plenty other range of emotions. I've made some of the best friends in my life because of this website and some great people I've had the pleasure of meeting. All of that is because of the Miami Dolphins. With all they've given me and all they continue to give is more than I could thank them for. So in return I show my support in the ups and downs, because they deserve it, because of what they've given me.

 

I would agree with that, and I don't expect to win the game, but if we can play them very tough from whistle to whistle, get to that that bye at 2 and 2, get that extra week of practice, and go into that jet game, even though we might lose that first game, I'am still gonna feel good about the team, especially because of the discrepancy's between the teams we will have faced that have offenses in tact relative to ours.
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Bottom line, 2 and 2 at the bye, for a team that has this amount of pressure on it, no offseason practices to implement a new offense, playing teams that have been in their systems for a long time Houston,Chargers/Pats, will be very exciting to me as I look at the big picture.

 

exposed..''Scorned luva''..

Your analysis, because of your inability to differentiate regimes and era's...I can't have much use for.

 

I'm honestly not convinced that a coaching switch mid-season has ever done a team any good, unless you feel the next great Head Coach of the Dolphins is Mike Nolan. And yet, that's kind of a contradiction in itself, because if Nolan was the next great Head Coach then there's no way his defense should be bad enough to start out 0-4.

Coaching switches often get a team to artificially rally mid season and win a few games. Great. Why do that, though? You're not rallying to the playoffs and a championship. You're just costing draft position with a little artificial rally brought on by a mid year coaching switch. I'm not really interested in that. And no, I don't think that means I qualify as a Suck For Luck-er. I just think if the team is going to go down, Tony Sparano should captain the crew to whatever fate awaits them.

 

As a fan, particularly if you're one that is spending money on your support of the team, you do deserve something.

You deserve ownership that is committed to winning, even if that means spending alot of money. You deserve basic competence in the management of the team. You deserve to get the players and coaches best efforts each time they go out there.

Obviously, no results are guaranteed and a million things can happen to affect individual outcomes, but yes, fans deserve something in exchange for their money and allegiance

 

Good luck with that. Personally, I plan on leveraging the Patriots' unfortunate awesomeness into some winnings in the first half of this football season. I'd be surprised if they failed to cover in any of their first four games.

 

All threads like this do is plant seeds in weak minds, and depress players that have to play the game.

 

Then they should have beaten Buffalo, Detroit and Cleveland last year. Its NOT the fans fault that the team is 1-10 in its last 11 home games.

Seriously ? You are going to blame the fans ? Are you kidding me ? I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head at that. Unjust or ignorant ? 1 playoff season in 10, that under this regime has a 10 and 15 home record (including a blowout playoff loss). Yeah the fans are totally stupid for not just running out and jumping for joy at that one.

DJ are you serious ? C'mon brother, even from you that is a stretch that I think you believe that.

Dolphins fans by the way have been supporting their team, much better than a lot of fanbases that have only been to the playoffs in one of the last 10 years, and have had to endure a 1-15 season, and have had some of the worst head coaches in the NFL over the last 10 years.

You think the fans should just plunk their money down like ignorant little minions ? You really have zero respect for the fans if that is they way you think. Then all the teams should just play in empty stadiums. Do you really think that will affect the outcome of a game against the Pats ? The way they played last night and in their 1st pre-season game, it looks like short of an atomic bomb nothing will be stopping them.

 

After the off season fiasco chasing Harbaugh and then giving Sparano a contract extension, firing Sparano in the middle of the season would make Ross go from looking like a fool to looking like a complete idiot. Would be a PR nightmare for the Dolphins. Do more damage than good. Probably effect potential FA from wanting to sign next off season. Ross couldn't be that dumb...could he?

The only time to fire a coach during the season is if he has lost all respect from his players and control of the team. Otherwise, ride it out regardless of the record. From everything I hear the players really like Sparano so I don't see any way possible he loses their respect.

 

Fans that pay their money to buy season tickets, and single game tickets do deserve it. That is the contract that buying a game ticket is all about. You are paying money to watch them play and TRY to win. The organization has a responsibility to its (paying) fans to TRY to win, because they deserve that.

Stitches, I have no idea if you do or don't go to games. And if you feel you don't deserve the very best effort of the team and organization to win, then that is your right. But I would guess that the vast majority of committed & paying DolFans would disagree with you.

 

If Dolphins are 0-4 than Nolan is part of the problem.

 

I think the Dolphins will start the year 1-3. That's not meant to be a slight on them. I think the Patriots will go off in their face like a bomb, and it won't be competitive. The Dolphins will have to regroup and figure out what in the hell just happened. But it'll be early enough in the season that Tony Sparano will yell, he'll make practices that much harder on everyone, they'll yell at each other and whip themselves up, they'll rally and they'll do something they haven't EVER done before...beat the Houston Texans. But then I think they drop the next two games.

I know, everyone's gonna say, "Lose to CLEVELAND?!? You're just irrationally mad at the Dolphins for (yadda yadda yadda)" but the fact of the matter is, they BEAT us last year. Nobody wants to remember that. We'll be traveling up to their house (and I'm among those that thinks the home/away thing last year was mostly coincidence), and you know hey I might have been wrong about Colt McCoy. He looked awful good in that first preseason game. They still have Peyton Hillis, Madden Curse or no. I think Channing Crowder when he talked about that Cleveland game, I think his opinion on that is probably shared by a lot of defensive players. And so it would be ironic and fitting that this time around when we travel up to them...it'll be the defense that fails us.

After that we will travel coast to coast all the way to San Diego and I just think they're too much team for us to handle, considering it's a second straight road game and we'll be traveling cross-country. Their defense will be better, with the additions of Takeo Spikes and Bob Sanders. And that's really all they'll need to be a genuinely better team.

Miami will head into the bye week 1-3, with the road record of a year ago being turned on its head and the defense having been roasted in all three losses. They'll head into the bye week looking for answers.

And that's when the real fun starts. How they respond the following game on Monday Night Football against the Jets...IMO, determines the nature of the season. If we have another game like we did last year where we give it everything we've got and we do well and come so close but they come out on top anyway? The season could be a disaster. However, if we're able to successfully rally and beat them in their own house on Monday Night Football...that could propel the team to a much better record.

 

Give me a break. So I guess having an evaluation of the Dolphins as not being a very good team is now a sign of a "weak mind". Screw that.

And depress players that have to play the game? You think a bunch of Dolphins players are perusing message boards and reading this thread and suddenly think oh crap now I'm depressed how am I going to get through these games?

 

I fully agree with this.

 

You really think players read this board ?

 

The Dolphins franchise has been trying to win for their entire existence. They play to win the game. Most every team in the NFL from the top down is trying to win.

Your criticism was that you deserve to be a fan of a team that is constantly on top, not that you deserve to be a fan of a team that tries to win.

 

Just about 100 % I see the season, except for the Cleveland game. I think they lose that and are 0-4 going into NY. For some reason though, I think they win in NY and then win 4 of the next 5 games, then get their wind knocked out of them at the end of the year when the Jets and Pats are gearing up for the playoffs. Not that I think the Jets make it, but they will beat us trying to make it in.

 

Be glad you don't frequent Finheaven then. Total ****fest over there

 

Right now I'm comfortable with L-W-L-L, and then a rally performance against the Jets. The problem is, that rally performane in New York could come at the same time as the Jets' own rally performance.

In Week 5, when we'll be enjoying the bye week, the Jets will be playing the Patriots in what is very much for Bill Belichick and Tom Brady a revenge game. I said before that I'll be shocked if the Patriots fail to cover in any one of their first four games. I should have said five games. With how I think the Pats will be blowing teams out at the beginning of the year, you'd usually find Vegas responding by widening the spreads significantly for that team. That happened in 2007 and I saw some of the widest spreads I'd ever seen. So that's why I was thinking that the Pats ATS record might hold only for four consecutive games. But, regardless of how much the spreads are going to want to widen, the Jets-Pats game is going to go down like a clash of titans. That's how it'll be painted, and Rex Ryan will be painted as the guy that has the answer to whatever the Pats are cooking up on offense this year. Rex did beat the Pats twice last year, after all. That will keep the spread lower than it should be, and so I expect the Pats to get their fifth consecutive ATS win.

That leaves the Jets awful raw. At that point, it's even possible they've just dropped two in a row, to Baltimore and then New England. This is where a lot of people are going to disagree with me but I consider the Jets to be a very good team, still. They're going to be chaffed about what just happened in that New England game and they'll look to take it out on us at home in Monday Night Football.

Again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying who is going to win that battle. Not yet. But the night battles between the Dolphins and Jets since Rex Ryan took over have both been excellent football...and this one should be excellent as well.

 

Preach.

 

Fan attendence at the home games will quickly decide for Ross whether Sparano stays or goes. Without immediate results at home (wins) I think there is a huge cry for change from the fans and Ross will be forced to act.

I voted for Sparano to be fired once the Phins are eliminated from the playoff hunt, which the W/L record at the halfway point of the season should make fairly clear. I'd let Nolan take over from there and see if things turn around.

 

See, I don't like that. To what end are we seeing if things turn around under Mike Nolan? To see if he should be our Head Coach going forward?

I think history has shown that a coaching change during the season usually gets results regardless of who is the recipient of the whistle. Miami did better when Jim Bates held the whistle. That didn't make Bates a good choice for Head Coach.

If Miami is losing so tragically as to prompt the potential firing of Sparano during the year, my money is on Nolan's defense being part of the problem. So if the man is not qualified enough based on what he did in San Francisco to get hired as Head Coach again...why consider him for the job in 2012 just because he, like so many interim coaches before him, enjoyed a better record during his short time holding the whistle?

What good can come of a mid season head coaching change after we're eliminated from the playoffs? Seriously. I see no good. Only bad. You lose draft position. You give an artificial leg up to an under-qualified interim Head Coach who will subsequently put his foot forward for Head Coach, and likely leave the team if he doesn't get the job.

The only marginally good thingI could think of happening if we were to fire Sparano mid year would be if Cowher is indeed destined for the job as some insiders believe, and somehow the Dolphins could convince him to come on before the 2011 season is even over, either to oversee operations while an interim coach runs things, or to outright run things while the coordinators continue to coordinate their respective units. That would be interesting. Cowher would then be credited for the inevitable winning of games that happens when you fire a coach mid year, and that would give fans, players and prospective free agents something to be real confident about for the future of the Miami Dolphins. But at the same time, it would cost us draft position...and the difference between a championship and mediocrity can indeed be the right quarterback.

 

Yes.. master!

 

I don't have a problem with discussing a potential scenario, but if someone posted a "what if we went 4-0" thread and asked how everyone would feel. What do you think the responses would be? There would be people telling that poster to get back down to reality and how he needs to get back down to Earth.

I think it goes both ways, if you're very negative... you'll get hated on by more optimistic fans. If you're very positive, you'll get hated on by pessimistic fans. It's just the way these things work.

And Finheaven is awful. End of story.

 

Another thing is the fact that there is a chance that the defense will get weaker because Nolan now has extra duties

 

I agree with your general premise that if you're optimistic then pessimistic fans will say things, and if you're pessimistic then optimistic fans will say things...but I don't really agree with the part in bold.

I think if someone asked that question, MAYBE one poster (my money is on DolfanJake) would start trying to chide the original poster. Some would come in and declare they don't think it very likely, but what's wrong with that?

I think MonstBlitz is absolutely right, the response he gets for asking this question is not equivocal to the respone he'd get if he asked the opposite question.

 

Good question. New poll.

Hypothetically what if Miami goes 4-0

A. Sparano is God
B. Nolan is jesus
C. Henne is actually decent, who would have thought
D. I am naming my first born Cameron Wake.

 

I think plenty of people would throw their punches, but that's just me. And the optimistic fans would certainly be ready for a throwdown so we'll end up in the same predicament.

 

It'd have to be C. It's the most likely.

 

Possibly. But I personally don't think that would happen. I think the defense would get stronger just purely from motivation, playing for "their" coach, a guy they believe in.

And then of course when that guy is not hired for the Head Coach job, there will be griping and mixed feelings/loyalties from the defense because of that. Hiring Mike Nolan as the interim Head Coach is pretty much the only way you GUARANTEE that he will not be the Dolphins' Defensive Coordinator in 2012 and beyond. If you avoid doing that, hiring him as interim coach, then there's at least a chance that Bill Cowher or whoever we hire could convince him to stay.

 

New poll, what if we end up 2-2? What's likeliest: W-W-L-L, L-L-W,W, W-L-W-L, L-W-L-W, L-W-W-L, W-L-L,W?

 

I haven't seen anything where Sparano isn't "their guy"

 

I didn't say he's not. But those things aren't mutually exclusive.