Re-Try: Ten Thoughts on First Half of Panthers Preseason Game

Two things I loved about this game - routes that allow for YACs and throws accurate enough for those YACs.

We're not going to win by letting Henne pick apart a defense, we're going to win by letting our playmakers make plays. Realizing the competition wasn't great, that doesn't really change the type of offense or if the throws were on target.

Also, while the two deep throws by Henne were off - in the regular season I hope you see guys laying out for those passes. Neither was massively overthrown and Gates may have been able to come down with his (Hartline's was too far outside for him to have stayed in bounds.).

 

I think Marshall, and everyone else, will quickly learn that he doesn't have to make that silly block to spring Bush.

 

The other one to Gates was from Moore, and I wouldn't qualify the Hilliard one as a deep vertical. I'd call him 1 for 3 on those.

 

I thought there was 2 to Gates in this game as well. Just the fact that we're going to try and take shots downfield should help ease up on the short to intermediate parts of the field.

I never thought of Marshall as a deep threat. He is something more than a possesion receiver and less than a deep threat.

 

Good point, guys...reminds me of the Samson Satele debate...many 'regular' fans thought he was a very good OL while here, and he was the best we had to offer at a few points in time...but if you look at the kid, he really wasn't as spectacular as many here made him out to be...Kind of like what many of us felt was Wanny's demise... He was so used to seeing Fiedler play adequately that he stopped seeing his deficiencies at some point in time... We probably all do that.

It's all perspective. While guys like CK, Alen, etc [you know, the guys VT mentioned] see things differently than many of the rest of us do, one game does not a career make for any of the players. I also thought Henne looked a lot better. His accuracy wasn't spectacular although he hit a few plays perfectly. One thing I do see differently in Henne is his ability to read the d's better. Even in Atlanta, aside from the 2nd INT [who's general fault has been discussed ad nauseum], he was looking at the right place at the right time...

Looking forward to next weeks' game...

 

I thought Pouncey looked fine. I didn't think he looked small either.

Again, I don't think Henne played bad, actually quite the opposite. I thought he played well. He's clearly improved his knack to take off on occasion and gain a few yards. He's shown a little ability to get out of the pocket and continue to gaze downfield to make a big play. Those things will help the offense make chunk yardage plays. However, he reverted back to one of my biggest issues with him--his inability to capitalize on plays down the field. Those are good play calls, good routes, everything has been executed, except the throw. In those instances, I just want him to give his WR's a chance to make a play on the ball. While I don't think neither Hartline or Gates are the types of "go and get it out of the air WR's", Henne still needs to get better at allowing them some chance to make a play on the ball.

He's shown in the first game he can make the throw, and this game he didn't. So, it's very early to say whether he's improved that part of his game or not, but basing my views on his past inability to make those plays I judge on that.

Tony Sparano also made mention that one of the things they "needed to clean up" was the fact they left some "open, very good chances" of make big plays. Speculating here, but I imagine that he referred to those missed opportunities down the field among other players not doing their jobs.

 

I always tell my son this when it comes to sports....

The most valuable player on a team...isnt the one who is the fastest, or strongest, or most talented....its the player that makes all of the players around him better.

What I saw from Reggie Bush...is someone who makes players around him...better. His .."lets get the crowd energized"...statement....the way he turns a checkdown pass into a big play....him just being on the field...to me...seems to make this team better. I really liked the leadership he displayed when commenting on Chad Henne after the game....

 

I watched Columbo on every snap vs Carolina and he was only beaten cleanly once. He didn't look smooth in anything he did, pass pro especially, but he got the job done. Close to 30 called pass plays and by my count he allowed 2 pressures and 0 sacks while facing a very capable pass rusher for most of the half. In the run blocking department there were a handful of times where he completely destroyed his man. He did a good job with sealing his guy inside/outside, but he seemed less effective when asked to block head up and drive his man backwards.


Perhaps if you could describe some of these plays where he looks the worst ever it would help b/c I'm simply not seeing what you're talking about and I don't think anyone else is either.

For example, there was one play where the Panthers sent a 6 man pressure, 2 LBs attacking the A gaps. Not sure what the protection call was but Carey turned the DT loose and took one of the LBS, leaving DT to deal with the tackle. DT did a terrific job, Henne hit Marshall on a slant for 20 yds and so the pass pro issue didnt cost us but that was a WTF moment for me and I'd bet dimes to dollars that we see that blitz again.

 

Just as an aside since you brought him up. I thought it mildly embarrassing when the talk of Ryan Kalil's contract came up, noone in the booth, particularly Griese, knew who he was. Especially since he more than likely would have been our center had the Panthers not grabbed him a pick or 2 in front of us the year we got Satele.

 

You see this in a lot of his highlights with the Broncos. And it's exactly like you say. It's all about coverage. Perhaps Bush will help in that department as opposing safeties will likely have to keep an eye on him more and more.

 

Nor do you have to be fast to be a great receiver. I bring up Jerry Rice all the time. The time I see for him in the combine is something like a 4.6 something.

 

And not trying to give away his GL plays in a meaningless preseason game.

 

I think it was all about the offensive line on that goal line situation. Sparano had to find out if they could punch it in or not.

 

TBH, have to wonder how much of Satele leaving was Parcell's just not liking his game? He played the 08 season with a torn labrum and maybe could have been a fine LG for us, but they just were not going for him.

Looking back at it now, Satele would have been better at LG then Justin Smiley ultimately proved to be.

 

Smiley was a pretty damn good guard and terrific at pulling. His problem was his shoulders were shot.

 

This could be the case; it could also be that Daboll was trying to make a statement that his O isn't just finesse. Maybe some of both. Either way, I do think that when that same scenario occurs in the regular season, it probably plays out differently.

 

If Pouncey in fact turns out to be playing in the 280 range, that will almost certainly be a problem. At 300-305 and going against guys 340-350, he's already giving up quite a bit just from a physics perspective; at 280-290 he would have even more of an issue. Technique only goes so far; they want these guys big for a reason.

Exactly! And I think that's where Hartline is going to make the bulk of his living now. He's going to be looked upon as the lesser of threats when compared to any one of Marshall, Bush or Bess, but like CK pointed out, he's long and athletic and a top hurdler in school. And 4.5 may not be 4.2, but it's not chopped liver either.

Amen. Of the top 10 WRs of all time, I don't see any who are speedsters. Effective execution and functional speed seem to be the winning combination.

 

Couldn't agree more. Hartline (Clay, Gates, Fasano also) will benefit from defenses focusing on Marshall, Bess & Bush and they will have ample opportunities to make plays. But I have to stop short of heaping praise on them because their chances are made possible primarily because defenses cant afford to pay much attention to them, not because they are especially talented or playing ell etc.

 

Colombo is not playing particularly well, but to me, the ugliest thing about the offensive line is Richie Incognito while pulling.

 

A concern for me is the short yardage RB situation. Say what you want about Ronnie Brown, he had his faults, but he had an eye for the goaline and an ability to pick up short yardage 1st downs. I worry if we don't have that right now. And if we don't, I think that makes Lou Polites role even grander because he's going to start seeing those carries over Daniel Thomas and Lex Hilliard.

 

Purely due to injury concerns of Smiley, not his play. IMO, Smiley could have played rings around Samson if healthy...

 

Well, if that's the case, I hope it's the 2009 version of Lou Polite, not the 2010 version...it seemed he was running on egg shells, no authority and his blocking was even suspect. Don't know if he had an injury of some sort, none was reported, but he definitely was not the same runner from 2009....

 

Regarding your last statement, you're right about that. Certainly Rice was not much better than a 4.5 guy, but the difference is the other cogs in our offense. What's different about Hartline's role is that in this offense he is expected to be the "stretch the field" guy so in that respect, Hartline is a weakness. That said, they've supplemented the offense with Bush, perhaps Gates/Moore/Wallace/Clay develop further and can play that role of someone the opposing D may need to cover with their best guy...that leaves things open for Bess/Fasano/Marshall and now Bush to do their thing in the intermediate and short ranges.

This is exactly why I was on the 'replace/supplement Fasano at TE' bandwagon....someone to bust the seams that Fasano can't do. If this week is an accurate indication of what Bush will bring to the O, then Hartline and not replacing/supplementing Fasano will do. It still would be better for this O to develop a 'speed' weapon, like Gates/Moore/Wallace/Clay or even Epps as the #2 receiving TE...

 

Reggie didn't need that block in the back from Marshall to juke that guy. I haven't seen all the plays, but he looks real efficient with his dancing. Something I think Booker was spectacular at, but not nearly as efficient as Bush is.

Interesting point about Pouncey. I'll have to keep him on the radar for next game.

Again, though, fantastic write-up CK.

 

Rice was elusive and knew how to get open and separate himself from defenders. It was a different era as in general guys are faster and bigger 20 yrs later. If you really want to compare like WRs, compare Marshall and Rice... neither considered speedsters (Marshall a bit faster) but both know how to get open and play the D. The big difference is their sizes...Marshall is 3 inches taller and 30 lbs heavier... The offensive systems are different between these two also here... Shanny ran a version of the WCO and Marshall played the Rice role there. Here has been different for him....

 

What I saw different about Bush was that he could juke without losing any speed as he was running. Booker was similar too, but he did 'dance' not just adjust and change direction at the same speed...JMO...

 

In regards to Hartline I will say he is a perfect #2 for our offense if you ask me. He was coming along nice last year before he got injured. His speed is very "sneaky" CK wich imo has alot to do with the penalties he draws. Very happy the FO didnt overreact and go pay a guy like Jacoby Jones who has speed but not much else. Marshall, Bess, Hartline is a solid starting group imo.

Reggie Bush is running hungry and physically looks like a new player, the last RB from N.O to be in that situation had 1800+ yards rushing upon arriving in Miami. Now Bush wont do all that but i think your looking at the biggest threat we have maybe EVER had on this football team.

I would take a game like that from Henne anyday, while he missed on a few throws he still looked confident. Problem is its a week to week situation with Chad. Lets hope that changes.

Very pumped for next week, Go Phins.

 

Yep. Fasano comes open for that long reception because the D is not concerned about Fasano hurting them; and although he did catch that pass, overall the strategy seems to be solid, since he did drop another 2.

He's simply not a consistent, reliable receiving threat. I hope they manage to get Dedrick Epps more involved in the next two games; he seems to be doing everything asked of him, and he performed at a high level against top competition in college; I'd like to see how he would play with starters.

 

Randy Moss?

But I hear you.

Hartline is kind of striking me as an Ed McCaffrey type of guy. Sneakily effective.

 

Great thread! This was some great reading. Thanks

 

I agree re Epps , he has made the plays he was put in position to do so and certainly may have the upside needed to make TE more of a factor for Miami.

 

Why not go back and watch Colombo in 2008-2009 and have a fair evaluation of what he does? Is he the same I look like total **** out there but I get the job done? I think he's a guy who can give you those first three seconds to pass the ball, perhaps four but won't be this wall off supreme pass blocking RT. He's likely not be the hit or miss Lydon Murtha type guy.

 

I don't disagree. The point I was trying to make is that speed is not what makes a great reciever. It can certainly help, but if you can't run routes, separate from Db's or catch the ball you will not be succesful. See Ted Ginn. That is what we need to see from the coaches with a guy like Gates. He certainly has the speed but he is raw and needs some help.