rather denver is not dumb enough to bite on this, we play denver this year right ? merling for tebow i dont know, i really dont like john elway, but he can't be this dumb to accept this kind of ridiculous offer
I admit having him around in the red zone is a huge weapon to have. I don't think there are too many guys more efficient in that regard.
Realistically, what are they going to get? And it might be better at this point from Denver's POV to trade the guy, let the fanbase get over it and remove that cloud. Tebow is always going to be a fan favorite in Denver where there will be pressure to play him. Remove the problem for whatever you can get.
Sadly enough that's actually what I was just thinking...that the idea makes too much sense and therefore they won't even breach the subject with the Broncos.
My question though is this: why do they have people inside the building selling Tebow out and engaging in all of this piling-on that we're seeing out there, if not as a way of getting the fans to accept that they're moving on?
IMO , and just that, no way does Denver trade Tebow for as little as Merling. There would be other teams that would have used a second on Tebow and I doubt they would not offer more than what Merling brings to the offer.
Don't assume that^ perceptions change fast. The problem with Tebow might be that he is just such an infectious leader on the field that Henne might be overlooked.
All I can think is that we have treated this position worse than Larry Johnson treats the ladies. It's almost surreal, like we have gone out of our way to neglect it. The people we have passed on in the draft, the moves we don't make, it's incredible - and now with 2 weeks to go we are suddenly realizing that we have nothing at the position aside from Fasano? Why couldn't we have ponied up a third for Olsen? Is that draft pick really so valuable? What have we done with third rounders lately? John Jerry and Patrick Turner? Why couldn't we have gone after Zach Miller? Taken Jimmy Graham last year, or any of the plethora of athletic guys available late this draft. Still, Denver and Green Bay have openings along the line, maybe we can pull off something.
That's some pretty funny sh-t right there. I'm not necessarily all for paying thru the nose for Zach Miller or Greg Olsen to be 2nd tight ends...but I mean, Kevin Boss? Dante Rosario? Bo Scaife? Todd Heap? Daniel Graham? John Gilmore? You don't need to shoot for the moon or stars in order to get someone competent to play at that position and be worthy of a couple hundred snaps.
Tim Tebow had the #1 selling jersey in all of football. While not all of those were true Broncos fans, the ones that were are going to be a little sour on a deal. I think the Broncos would have to offer to exchange jerseys if they didn't want to royally piss off 40% of their fan base. Jerseys aren't cheap.
It's really amazing to me how the dominant school of thought at any given time on this message board from a personnel and formation standpoint is "Whatever the Patriots are doing" without regard to feasibility, expense, prospects, etc. Wasn't that long ago that tight ends were completely passé, that running a two-tight end base offense was stupid and stone-age, and that it was fairly unpopular to suggest they move in that direction. That was, of course, when the Patriots were running primarily "11" personnel, going with 3-wide and a blocking tight end, when they had Ben Watson as a blocker-first, and their backup was a guy who was essentially for all intents and purposes a Tackle, not a Tight End. Now that the Patriots have moved to a two-tight end base offense, the team is incredibly stupid and short-sighted for going with that same 11 package as their base, and eschewing a two tight end set as a heavily used formation. It's all about what's in fashion.
We're suggesting that it's foolish to ignore the 2-TE position, because it may see a few hundred snaps or if God forbid Fasano gets injured we need a solid tight end. No one's stated that Ireland is foolish for not getting a 2 TE so we can go there often. It's roster flexibility, match-ups, red zone efficiency we're lacking. I could care less what the Patriots do they didn't win the Superbowl. The team that throws multiple WRs out there early and often did. If it were up to me the base offense would be a 4 WR set with Gates out there at flanker.
Why? There are teams last year who for all intents and purposes did. There are successful teams who did. Hell, we're talking about scooping up the scraps of teams who did that last season, like Andrew Quarless. He was all sorts of John Nalbone last year, and looks pretty close to what having John Nalbone as your primary starter for a season would look like. It's roster flexibility and match-ups if you field someone roster flexible and a match-up issue. It's a lot harder to do that then people are acting like.
It's also got a lot to do with flexibility within their scheme. Haynesworth? Sure, they can play a 4-3. Gronkowski and Hernandez? if you're gonna let that much talent fall into their laps, sure; they'll start running double tight-end formations. They'll just keep drafting o-linemen in the first and it won't matter if they put greased-up deaf guy in the backfield.
And on the other hand, the Patriots are also the team that spend a pair of first round picks on Daniel Graham and Benjamin Watson. How'd that work out for them, in the grand scheme of waiting for talent to come to them and pouncing when they're sure it's within reach?
I wouldn't quite put Quarless and Nalbone on the same level, regardless of PFF. Lost you on the second one. A specialty TE who is excellent at short receptions and run blocking is perhaps something we'd be looking for. I'm not sure that's a match-up issue player or a roster flexible guy since he's limited in usage, but there's no question he's useful. Much like Larry Johnson is a guy that used to be good in the red zone, having an Alge Crumpler in the red zone is a good thing. The Patriots drafting was very mediocre for a while. Those two TE picks along with a number of others were putrid. For all the picks they've had they should be as good as the Packers but they're not.
Those were solid picks. Not hall of fame great, but good, all-around players who were fast for their position (for about 2-3 yrs. each)...and don't say they weren't because everyone remembers Watson chasing down Champ Bailey to prevent the pick six (playoffs right?).
I don't know that there's anything on PFF that indicates they are on the same level, either. But Quarless went into, and still came out of that last season in virtually the same place as that kind of player. He's a low round, developmental project that going into the season, and still right now has a better chance of being cycled off the roster for the same kind of player than sticking around and earning a heavier role. He's not an all-around good player, nor does he do any role well enough to justify running a two-tight end set with him. He's a guy that is there that you are carrying on the roster. Sure, but it's not an particularly important thing. If you don't have a strong run blocking #2 tight end, you use an I-formation. It's not the exact same set of plays, but you can do the same kind of things. There are circumstances where you will need to put a #2 tight end onto the field, but not to the point where you have to have a role player like that. Loads of teams do the reverse with a fullback.
I don't see how they were "solid". They ended up averaging 350 and 278 receiving yards per season, respectively, as Patriots. As first round picks. This message board considers it an absolute abortion of justice that we're starting a tight end we paid a 4th round pick for that does quite a bit better than that without Tom Brady. They weren't ever enough to justify running a two-TE set as a base offense to any significant degree, either.
I've written it before and I'll write it again..I would love to get Tebow. His upside is so high i doubt anyone truly knows what the kid can do. And like CK has said, if he can't get it done as a QB, he most certainly can be used else where.
He can't just be cut and not go through waivers. He hasn't been in the league long enough. Unless that changed in the new CBA.
That's a huge assumption on your part. We have no way of knowing if Denver would trade him to us for Merling no matter Ireland's feelings on the matter.
Once Graham was fully integrated into the Pats system by 2004 they won 2 Super Bowls. In 2006, he was named the offensive team captain. Watson was a faster version of Graham, making one of the all-time hustle plays in NFL history. I thought they were both very good, but they may have 2 that are even better in Gronkowski and Hernandez. I think a lot of people wanted to upgrade the position in free agency, not necessarily with a high draft pick, but I see your point.
Good points. Even though they aren't in NE anymore, both have been decent NFL players for a while. Not always gonna get Pro Bowlers with your first rounders. Even if we never use a 2 TE formation, we need a better backup to Fasano, in case of injury. Anyone comfortable with Mastrud or Shuler playing the same number of snaps as Fasano does? Or else we could go two backs and 3 wide as the base offense.
I would have put Roberto Wallace on steroids in the offseason while sending him to run with the bulls in Pamplona and Sumo wrestling in Japan. It's just a blind spot that has the fan base completely perplexed. I suppose Murtha could be an option. I don't know, perhaps Ireland is waiting for someone to get cut, or make a deal in the coming weeks.
I don't think the Patriots winning a Super Bowl, or Graham being considered a good leader justifies those picks. The Patriots persevered, and they were not net-negative contributors to the team in a vacuum, but neither came close to living up to their picks. Daniel Graham had stone for hands and was basically a blocking tight end you could have gotten for a fraction of the expense, and Ben Watson never lived up to his physical hype. There's other examples if you like, too. The Cowboys have spent two second round picks trying to end up running a base two-tight end offense, and gave up too early on Anthony Fasano and then picked up an overly expensive blocking tight end in Martellus Bennett.
Whatever, agree to disagree...BTW, I'd take Bennett at this point too. Got any right tackles you think suck?
I'd take Bennett as our #2 Tight End in a heartbeat, and I think a lot of teams would as well. Still doesn't make him worth a 2nd round pick, though.
PFF ranked him 3rd overall and 2nd in run blocking in 2010. You probably saw the same. I think he'd be worth a 3rd right now.
Strange how this team turned out. A random UDFA picks Miami says I want to play there, a fourth round guy picked to replace an injured Camarillo, and a troubled #1 WR turn this into a passing team from a team that was supposed to be a running team. The Dolphins then pull 3-4 DE linemen from the draft and basically anywhere they look. They find OLBs, sign ILBs galore, draft fairly well at CB, even find a couple safeties. Yet in the end a Bill Parcells team can't entirely fix the OL and have the powerful run/PA game it was supposed to have.
Like signing Burnett, trading for Marshall, signing Dansby? Man, these guys never make moves that make sense. I bet if we evaluate the moves that we as fans thought made sense over the past three years, most of them would probably not make sense.
the redskins lost their rookie jarvis jenkins for the season with a torn ACL against the ravens last night, still can dream about somehow getting fred davis
