Friend jdang307, I would suggest: the greater concern @ this point is the offensive line Sparano has put together there can be no viable running game or passing game, unless they get it right. Henne cannot be sacked four or five times a game & be rushed every other play & expect to manage an offense. if Chad Henne is to excel, to attain his potential, he'll need a reasonable running game & front line to play behind. having said that good luck Chad Henne, looks like you're going to need all the luck you can get. as you go, the team goes in 2011
Josh Freeman looked nothing like his stats would indicate, nor was he as consistent as his stats would indicate. He beat up on some crappy defenses, was the recipient of a great ground game, looked bad against some great defenses, and looked good at times verse some good defenses. Do you know how many plays his receivers made for him last year? A bunch. Watch him against common opponents. He looked terrible against Pitt. TERRIBLE. Decision making was poor and accuracy was all over the place. Freeman looked about the same against our defense, too. So where's his improvement there against tough competition? How was his decision making Saturday? How was the floater Josh threw that should've been picked? It's easy & convenient to sum up his TD's & INTs and say he was great, however the film doesn't lie. And he did not have less talent. Respectfully, I'm not sure where you get that. Miami: Dan Henning. Dan Henning. Dan Henning. Dan Henning. lol. Bucs: no Dan Henning. NO Dan Henning. No Dan Henning. Josh's line was better. His ground game was outstanding. His receivers made plays for him. Williams & Benn stretched the field & made plays vertically in 1 on 1 situations, and Josh was allowed to capitalize on it. His offense was no severely injury plagued.... and he had a legitimate receiving TE & outlet back. Are you saying that injured guys who aren't on the field count toward "talent around a player"?
It would appear that the entire blame for anything that goes wrong with the entire offense is, deservedly or not, to some posters, a negative reflection on Henne, even if he did his part of the job. Blaming the QB for the entire offensive performance when the running game is (as it was most of last season) absent is infantile. Blaming him for offensive failure to continue a drive when the receiver catches, and then fumbles the ball, is equally blame storming. Blaming the quarterback when he misses a pass (whether or not the receiver made the right cut or not, did or did not stop when appropriate, or grew a pair of alligator arms) and claiming inaccuracy is at best presumptive, and at worst, arrogant (I know where he was supposed to go, why didn't Henne?) A lot of angst erupts out of the nether part of our minds when things don't go right for the Dolphins, and it is always easy to point at the most obvious (whether spectator, television viewer, or even broadcast commentator!) person and make him the scape goat for all that's wrong. That is a band wagon which will never, it appears, run short of boarders. I even have been known to burst forth with a incredibly intense "What the F....?!?!?!?" but I do manage to employ the editor program between what is left functioning in my brain and my lips and tongue...ahh.. most of the time - specially if my wife or a parishioner is around. Do I think Henne is great? Not Hardly! Has he improved? Apparently substantially! Will he ever be great? I doubt it. Will he have some great games, and perhaps a great season or two?? I think so. Is he solely responsible for any offensive failure? Again, not hardly!
Friend RevRick: fair a balanced reporting having said that when will the real issue come to the front, no pun intended our offensive line destroyed us last year & continues to be the problem until the front five are effective & consistent, our offense will suck where are the Orca-5 when you need them?
The first problem is someone linked an article from this douchebag. The second problem is that 5 pages worth of people read it.
Come on now, I know you appreciated HeelsnPhins diagram of the proper way for Henne to score a touchdown. That illustration absolutely made my day.
Friend Psg: sounds nice & to an extent you're right however 1) this is Chad's last shot @ to redeem himself & he's off to a good start. its too early for a coronation but give credit where credit is do... granted, there's still a lot to prove & improve 2) journeyman, elite pro-bowl or just plain good, it doesn't really matter... no QB can survive this offensive line, no offense can flourish with this sieve of a front five 3) said it before & some took offense but I believe it is true: if the running game is there, the passing lanes will open & all that is needed is yeoman-like performance out of the starting QB to make the post-season. however, all this presupposed that we would have a viable front five to allow the offensive unit to function. might not have been a good assumption on my part.
This is a really good post, Chris. Chad has certainly taken a step this preseason and he's showed some things he hasn't. At the end of the day, it's about scoring points and scoring more than the other team. You said it as well as you could say it really.
I didn't take Armando's piece as a means to try and completely diminish Henne's performance on Friday. However, with the title I could see how someone would think that. I think Armando brings up some valid points and the pictures show quite a bit. It's a tough angle to really try and get a true view of what Henne was able, not able to see. Is the DL's hand in his passing lane? That's really a timing route and as Henne gets better, hopefully so, he'll need to learn to move his feet a little of that lane has closed down. Also, it's a timing route and when the picture is taken Bess has already completed his route. Hopefully as the season goes on and trust is developed there, Henne can make that throw in a place as Bess turns and it's a TD. The Hartline play is one where Henne again just has to continue to progress there. I as I mentioned in another thread, you can see he's worked on his mobility and scrambling ability. He just needs to put it together and remember down/distance/situation and put it all together. As Stringer mentioned, that's a position where a sack doesn't hurt you as much, so he needs to be able to keep his cool in there and continue to look in the end zone to make a play for a TD.
IMO the article smells like an author trying to generate buzz (obtain hits) by going against what the majority thinks on the heels of a fairly good performance by Chad Henne. I agree with Jim Miller who says Chad Henne and Reggie Bush will have their best season ever under Daboll's new offense. Will that be good enough to satisfy everyone? Of course not. But it's going to be a fun ride.
Now hold up a minute Ck, you went on and on about QBR in the preseason translating to the regular season, Henne's QBR did certainly jump upwards, now that is not the standard? My view is this, Henne has premium receiving options in bush, bess and marshall and to a lesser extent fasano, he is going to put up numbers that to me is without question, but that is mere stat monkery as I never bought into QBR or what have you, however, you did put a lot of stock into it, a bit early to cast it aside with a "yeah but" is it not?
I suspect Bush will catch about 60 passes P13, and Marshall is going to crack the 100 reception barrier, if Sparano is going to spread it out and air it out there will be numbers put up.
The goalposts keep moving on the Henne thing. To be considered a good QB, people want to see Henne be consistently good. He's had two straight games of playing well, which doesn't prove anything but is a good sign. Yet, now we are micro-analyzing two plays (Fasano drop INT in ATL and this play vs TB) as indications that Henne is not turning a corner. Just seems unfair that any success is meaningless until happens over a long stretch of time, but any mistake, even a single play that isn't even a terrible play, is a sign that he has not turned a corner. The same goes for looking at the total pts scored - if we can use single plays to reflect negatively on him, then why do we have to expand to include the entire offense (with the running game struggles and penalties) before we can ackowledge success. There is a double-standard. Odds are good that Henne hasn't made some magical transformation and will be a mediocre to below-average QB this year, but I think people are reaching for Proof of that outcome in these games.
Yup but his post clearly put it on Henne. This team would have scored more points if not for all the penalties, lack of anything even resembling a running game or an OL and Marshall's fumble.
If Henne does make a "magical transformation" he wouldn't be the first QB to do so in his 3rd year of starting... Drew Brees 2nd year starting: 205 comp, 356 att, 57.6%, 2,108 yards, 5.9 ypa, 11 TD, 15 int, 67.5 QB rating Drew Brees 3rd year starting: 262 comp, 400 att, 65.5%, 3,159 yards, 7.9 ypa, 27 TD, 7 int, 104.8 QB rating Philip Rivers went from 82.4 QB rating to 105.5 in his 3rd year of starting. Other QBs are able to make a big jump in their 2nd year of starting. But I think the one thing that has to be taken into consideration with Henne is how limiting Henning's system was. Like putting a ball and chains around his legs and then tying one arm behind his back and asking him to go out there and make big plays, but not make any mistakes. I think it is fair to say Henning was a DISASTER for Henne's development.
Yup, the drive killers have been penalties and inability to run. Obviously, Miami is trying to establish the run in short-yardage situations. How long will Daboll rely on that once the season starts? I imagine there will be a lot more play-action and roll outs once the season starts on 1st and/or 2nd down having a better chance to result in TDs.
I do not think that is fair to Henning, basically he nursed Henne into a slightly below .500 Qb, and Henne got a ton of starting experience whilst that happened. Running game collapsed, Sparano went in a different direction, and here we are, with Henne better at Qb technique, but still relatively unproven as "the man", if Henne does turn the corner, and I've said he reminds me of Jim Kelly (or young Kerry Collins), Henning should get some of the credit imo. Henne, I suspect, will be hit a lot this yr, remains to be seen if he can withstand it.
But the assumption is still wrong. Great QBs miss opportunities all the time. So pointing out several opportunities that Henne does not prove he has a long way to go towards being a great QB that misses several opportunities. As I have said many times, I don't believe Henne will be a great QB, but AS's argument is logically flawed.
You and I disagree on Henning then. True Henne got a ton of starting experience, mostly by default with Penny getting hurt and no one else worthy of playing time...White, Thigpen. I think if Henne does turn into a Kim Kelly it will be more of a testament to Henne's mental toughness. I think Henning's system was ok for Penny, but not for Henne. Not sure how much freedom was given to Penny to call audibles, not much was given to Henne. I think back to the Minnesota game last year when the first play was a successful 46 yard completion to Marshall. No other deep pass was called the rest of the game...WTF? If a young QB has success at least let him try to build on that. Instead Miami had to rely on the defense to win that game. Then comments like the Titans Finnegan saying he knew what route Marshall would run 80% of the time just by the formation. Not sure how that is going to help a young QB when the system is so predictable the DBs know what's coming. Another example, in the 17-14 loss to the Bills the Bills DBs were saying "So we knew two things. One, Henne wouldn't be holding the ball long on most plays. And, two, if they were going to throw medium or long, they'd have maximum protection and only send two guys out." Way too predictable. http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2010-12-19/sports/fl-hyde-dolphins-bills-1220-20101219_1_chad-henne-jeff-ireland-dolphins-coach-tony-sparano I do agree that Henning did not have the best pieces to work with which may have contributed to his ultra-conservative game calling. I would think a OC with his experience would have been a little more creative. Even the wildcat became so predictable that opponents abandoned defending the pass and just hit the running lanes knowing Miami wasn't going to throw out of it. Yea...can't imagine is going to have too many games this year finishing with a clean jersey. Hopefully, Henne doesn't get happy feet. Poor OL protection has ruined more than one QBs career. What part of Henne's game do you see Henning deserving credit other than game experience?
Ahh, the infamous it's everything else but the QB argument. it's everyone else but the QB that made the QB play well. It's everything but the QB that made our QB play bad. How many plays did his receivers make for him last year? Why don't you tell me? Could it be his #2 WR Benn who made a whopping 395 yards of plays? Also, making such an argument implies that you feel that our WR's are not playmakers. I guess we need to throw out Marshall Bess and Hartline then, sorry excuses for receivers! Cleveland? Cincinnati? 6 INTs. No amount of film will change anyone's mind that 19 TDs is equivalent or similar to 6 INTs. Nothing. The film will show 19 passes caught by the other team. None. Two bad games by Henne and he's hit 6. Because I like other plays on this team not named Henne Mike WIlliams, Arrelious Benn, and Sammie Stroughter, Michael Spurlock. Those are your top 4 Bucs receivers. You take them over our top 4? I'll give you ground game, after Blount came up big. Until then their run game was extremely weak. Games of 15, 30 yards by their running back. I eagerly await your explanation of how their run game helped Freeman weeks 1-6 Again, only on a dolphin forum will someone make an argument that Freeman's success was all due to everyone else and Henne's success was all due to everyone else. Who is out there arguing that their receivers are better than ours? I'll watch every pass by Freeman and find that only 1.3% turned into INT's. As far as I know the Bucs didn't chase Kyle Orton this offseason like we had to. Henne was plain awful. On what planet but Planet Dolphins are we arguing 25/6 is in anyway similar to 15/19. No amount of justification will explain that away. I watched tape of last year. I deleted them, but I watched every game. I think he leads the league in passes that go straight into the grass with no pressure. Seriously, I don't know why I bother, you will see it your way. It's ok to have optimism. I do too. But I'm not going to delude myself in thinking its everyone else's fault but Henne's. He played bad, and it was his fault. Straight up.
Bottom line I think is Dan Henning was the absolute worst thing to happen to Henne. He had no leash and now that he is off it, I expect big things from him.
The huddled masses of Joe Average Fan, the ham and egg crowd so to speak, should be grateful for the enlightenment that Mandy attempts to provide.
Paul Soliai: keep the weight manageable and he will remain a stud Sean Smith: great coverage ability, not much of a run support player Daniel Thomas: great potential, too early to tell for sure. Jared Odrick: if he can remain healthy he is a future Pro Bowler. Brian Hartline: fast for a white boy, not the best balance, not a bad #2 WR.
Murtha was not as bad last season as some folks made him out to be. He is probably the most athletic OL we have, and he got by more on that last season than he did technical soundness. I remember him letting a pass rusher start to get the edge, and then through his great mobility recover to keep the guy off the QB. It was not pretty but it worked. He had 137 pass blocking snaps last season and allowed 1 sack, 1 hit and 7 pressures. Jake had 638 pass blocking snaps and allowed 6 sacks, 3 hits and 12 pressures. Carey had 452 pass block snaps and allowed 4 sacks, 3 hits, and 23 pressures. He wasn't far off our starters for rate of sacks or hits, and for rate of pressures was close to even with Carey.
I give Henne credit for his play against the Bucs last week. That being stated, I still don't think he is the long term answer at QB for the Dolphins and I think the QB of the future for the Dolphins is presently playing college football. Once Ireland and Sparano are fired after this season, I think the new GM will finally see the light and will draft a QB in the first round of the 2012 draft. Since I don't see the Dolphins winning more than 4 or 5 games this season. They should have a pick in the top ten of next years draft and this should enable them to get one of the better QB's in what is be considered an excellent draft for QB's.
4 or 5 wins seems like a pretty silly forecast. I be willing to bet money they get at least 7 or 8 wins.
I agree. 4 or 5 wins seems like a very unrealistic prediction. The vegas over/under of 7.5 seems far more realistic. And IMO the better OC will push them above that number.
LOL Not gonna argue Simply put, to say henne is the solution, means he has shown that he is the guy to lead this team, that he has arrived at some point. To then turn around and say he has a Looooooooong way to go, cannot infer in any way shape or form IMO that he has proven to be the solution. He didnt say solution because he is the only option, he said solution as if the position has its answer going forward. if he has a long way to go, he isnt a solution, he would be an all we have solution, which is not what he said. Like I said I am not arguing opinions. people can read it how they read it, but that is how I read it
To be fair, you left out Brees's first year starting where he was actually pretty good. 2002 San Diego Chargers 16 526 320 60.8 32.9 3,284 6.2 205.2 17 3.2 16 3.0 52T 40 4 24 180 76.9 His first year starting was in his second season, just like Henne. He managed a positive TD/INT ratio (though it obviously wasn't great). The next eyar the wheels fell off the entire team, he had injuries and only played 11 games. When SD had the #1 pick in the best QB class since 1983, of course they were going to take a franchise guy. And when Brees blew up in year 3 starting, year 4 overall, he really blew up. it was obvious early on that he was something special. If Henne puts up those numbers, I'm happy to call him a franchise QB and move forward. But that would take a massive improvement from what we've seen.
I was in Las Vegas two weeks ago and I did see that the over-under for Miami was seven and a half. I will admit that I placed a bet of $500 on Miami winning less then seven and a half games. Even though I wagered $500 on the Dolphins not going over, I would not be disappointed if I was wrong and they actually are a better team then I suspect they will be. I figure I saved well over two thousand dollars by not renewing my 4 season tickets year. So if the Dolphins go over the posted number in Vegas, I will certainly enjoy the season far more than I anticipate. If they are as bad as I think they will be, I'll win $500. So as far as I am concerned, I really can't lose, one way or the other. I would be happy to lose $500 if that means the Dolphins make the playoffs. My worst scenario is that the Dolphins go 8-8, don't make the playoffs, and end up drafting in the middle of the 2012 ,when all the top QB's in the draft have already been selected.
I think that scenario is far more likely than them winning just 4 or 5 games. But I don't think that necessarily takes them out of contention for a top QB. In the past when you have had QB heavy draft classes like the one coming up looks to be, you usually end up with the QBs going throughout the first, not just in the top half. The last big QB class was in '04 and the last 1st rd QB went at #22 (although I didn't have him rated as a 1st rounder). In '99 they did all go in the top half. And obviously in the biggest QB draft we got Marino at #27. So I think that if we finish 8-8 and we really like a QB that he might fall to us or we could be within striking distance to trade up since we didn't squander any picks on Orton.
Am I correct in this: If we win but Henne plays below what some want, we won in spite of him. If we lose but Henne plays great, we lost because of him. If Henne plays well and we win, but it's against Carolina, it doesn't count. Just to be sure.
Personally, whether we win or lose isn't going to change how I view someone's performance. But, I think the problem with this line of thinking is that it might undervalue the importance of the QB position. How many teams lose when their QB plays great? How many teams win in spite of their QB? Sure, there are teams like the Chargers and Jets which are exceptions, but its pretty rare in today's NFL. I also don't understand the Carolina reference. He played well, and we won. It counts, but at the same time you need to keep perspective that its just one game against a team that isn't very good. Performances like that need to be the norm, not just a data point. There are plenty of bad QBs that have great games. But in reality, you need those type of games on a consistent basis.
Can't be sure of the bold because so far, he hasn't ever played great. You're just guessing at how fans would react if he played really well and the team loses. That's like Philip Rivers last year but nobody is calling for his head.
Drafting a guy in the first round is going to solve the problems of this team ?? Again, another person saying that Henne is THE problem with this team. Have you watched the OL even this PS?? Unfortunately you are probably right though, because we are in the AFCE and getting into the PO's is not likely and therefore Sparano and Co. might be gone given Ross' MO...not because they are necessarily not worth keeping but because they have fallen short so far. One season, good or bad may not be the answer, but the writing is on the wall. Henne is in a lose-lose situation here. Short of him becoming Dan Marino II starting with the first play on against NE, it won't be good enough for most fans. If we are 7-9 and Henne is 20/12 and 3500 yrds it won't be good enough to keep him on. All the O woes will be his fault, even tho those stats would be Kyle Orton's average stats for the last 3 yrs, the guy who, a short time ago, was going to be our savior here. With that record, Sparano and possibly Ireland will be gone and the new regime will likely bring in their own guy. If he is inconsistent and we are 7-9 it'll be because of his play and that he just isn't a good enough player. If we are 10-6 and in contention to the end, it'll still be Henne's fault because he faltered when it counted. It won't matter whether Bush can stay healthy or Thomas turns out to be a guy we can count on or that the OL stayed a mess or that Marshall had another mental meltdown in mid-season or whatever, it'll be because Henne isn't good enough. Too bad...what excuses will guys use once a new regime is in place and Henne is gone ??
There will be no more excuses than there already are defending Henne's play. The NFL is a results oriented business. When you win, you don't get much heat. When you lose, you do. It's pretty simple.
Why should Armando have all the fun and get all the love? Let's unleash The Two Minutes Hate on another writer: http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview11/st...lton-espn-john-clayton-ranks-nfl-starting-qbs Henne ranked 27. Let's all call John Clayton ugly, nerdy, incompetent, etc. because we don't like his opinion.
