Gerrard would be better in the current scheme than Henne IMO. But at this point there is no way he could contribute to this team this season. Even bringing him in as the backup wouldn't make sense now. The cost now isn't going to be worth it, because he's not in any position to help the team. I would have favored bringing him in this off-season to compete for the starting spot, but Jacksonville wasn't going to let him go elsewhere. Shrewd move on their part.
Garrard is a veteran who's been around. I think he could pick up the offense relatively quickly. It's supposed to be a simple, QB friendly offense.
We define "infinitely" differently I guess. I prefer to use the actual definition: If one were to insist on using it to make football related comparisons, I guess you could say Johnny Unitas was infinitely better than Dick Wood.
I'm not sure that the scheme is "QB friendly". Schemes might manifest their success differently, and in Miami's case you'll probably see more passing TDs. But you'll also likely see more INTs and sacks as a result of the scheme. In the end success is going to come down to the players executing X% of the time in relation to their opponents.
Fair enough. Can we at least agree that David Garrard has been alot better than either Moore or Henne to this point in their respective careers?
Yeah I like his game rafi, to me he is like a bit lesser version of Orton in terms of desirability, as he is a bit older (5yrs) and shorter (6'1) and not quite as productive (quick guess is 18 td per yr avg) but you can do a lot worse.
I agree Pad. Much like I didn;t want to trade for Orton, I wouldn't have traded for Garrard either. But either of them as a free agent, I'm exploring and would love to have either guy.
Nah, it is fact, Garrard usually has about 15-18 td's per yr, which is, hate to say it, Fiedler numbers, if it weren't for MJD they would be 04 Dolphins like.
Nothing in the NFL is simple for the QB. But either way, you still need some time to get acclimated to the play book. I doubt Gerrard could do that in 5 days.
I agree that he'd need time to get acclimated, but I think he's a better option for the course of the season. We might go the same 1-3 to start with Henne or Garrard, but I'd feel better about a turnaround with garrard at the helm
To this point, yes. I do not believe he'd any better than Henne for the current offense in the coming season. Moore looks like a solid backup. IMO, Garrard has already peaked.
Certainly Garrard is an older player, but I think he is better right now. and we're supposed to win right now. And this move doesn't cost you any picks or a ton of money like Orton would have. I see no downside to it really. If Henne plays great the first few weeks then you have a really good backup.
Yeah, I imagine how QB friendly any system is, depends on how well it suits a particular QB's skill set.
Mccown didn't beat out gabbert, they're starting him so they don't have to rush gabbert in there. Kind of like the way the giants started Kurt Warner for half a year before putting in Eli manning even though Warner at the time looked 100% done. This could also be a move to help boost ticket sales though that would be the worst reason ever to cut your starting qb. Those of us who drafted Maurice jones drew can now rejoice...dump offs plus relying on the run game = big fantasy year!
Garrard may be a little more accurate but he's not going to be in that Brees or Rivers class. I think the main difference was that Garrard had better pocket skills than Henne showed in his first two seasons. But they're probably only slightly better than what Henne has shown this preseason. I'm just not sure if he's that much better that it would make much difference. I see Garrard as being in that tier that can win, but he depends on the system and players around him. He's not going to make a bad team good like Peyton did. I don't think Ryan would have had much more production the last two seasons in Henning's system than Henne did and think Ryan is a better QB than Garrard. And I don't see Henne as just an average QB. I think he has good QB talent that produced average results b/c the system was so poor and such a poor fit.
He was pretty bad in preseason. He's been around long enough that he probably deserves a pass in that regard though. I wonder if his preseason performance entered much into the Jags' thinking? Is there something they saw as a degrading of some aspect of his skill set? The way the AFC South looks right now, with good QB play, the Jags are in good shape otherwise to make a run at winning their division.
I don't think the Jags care one way or another about winning. They're really just trying to set the stage for Gabbert.
I'm sorry for taking this away from the Miami Dolphins, but I've got to say a little piece as someone who lives in Jacksonville. Truthfully, I am a closet Jags fan. In no way, do I root for them harder or care more about them than the Miami Dolphins. And I root for the Dolphins any time they play Jacksonville. However, living in the city for the past 10 years now, I've taken a liking to them. I have absolutely no idea what they are thinking. None. This move makes zero sense. It makes zero sense because of the timing, not because of the money or the aspect. But, no one is going to look at it that way. In year in which the Jaguars have sold to their fans, that they are taking no excuses that it's all about winning, they release their starting QB 4 days before the season starts. In a year in which they have a great chance to win and the fans' hopes of a division title are at its highest since the past couple of years, they release their starting QB 4 days before the season starts. They wonder why the Jacksonville fans don't show up to the games or support the team. They take the wind out of their sails right before the season, when the excitement is at it's all time highest. Showing that the Jags are 33 million under the cap, has only made the fan base even crazier. The Jaguars should prepare themselves for a blackout every home game. I bought season tickets at 50% off with the idea I'd be able to sell the games in which they play the same time Miami plays, now I don't know if I'll be able to sell the things, or get the profits I was hoping for.
I agree, it almost feels like the owners are planning to move or sell the team to whatever L.A. group will buy them.
How do you get rid of a guy who had 90.8 Rating, threw 23 TDs to 15 INTs (Imagine if Miami had that last year? He's actually never thrown more INTs than TDs in a season) and 64.5 Completion %. He's not elite but he is solid. Dolphins would be crazy not to go for him as a backup...especially with only 2 QBs on the Roster. If Henne gets hurt or shows zero improvement..would you rather have Moore or Garrard???
Several reasons... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6936966/jacksonville-jaguars-release-david-garrard-days-opener a stunning move that will save the franchise $9 million this season With running back Maurice Jones-Drew sitting out against Washington, the Jaguars put the game on Garrard's shoulders and he struggled to handle the load. He struggled to read Washington's cloaked defensive schemes and nearly ended the day with five turnovers. Garrard was hit repeatedly in last week's preseason finale against St. Louis and had an animated exchange with his offensive line on the sideline. That, too, had become an issue inside the facility, with Garrard pointing the finger more often than taking the blame. He blamed an interception against Atlanta on receiver Mike Thomas and then ripped the line for Thursday's problems. Can't imagine the Dolphins will even consider Garrard in their plans.
His health must be absolutely awful. Here's hoping we can bypass the "should MIA bring in Garrard?" threads.
Seattle or Washington offer the best opportunities to eventually start. Miami is not a bad option, but I don't know why he'd backup on a team with a coach on the hot seat. He could be on his butt again in a year.
But Marino yells at a WR or the OLine and it's OK? Listen, Garrard has been in Dirk Koetter's offense for 4 years now. He knows where everyone should be going and how the thing should look. He's been given an offensive line that features two overrated bookend tackles, one that currently weighs 280 lbs. The best WR he's been given is a 5'9 Mike Thomas that doesn't have any of the abilities that Steve Smith has. He's then been saddled with Jason Hill & Cecil Shorts (who has been looking good in the preseason). I mean other than MJD & Marcedes Lews the guy literally has nothing. No one to block, catch, nothing. Garrard was a guy that the team liked and for a city that is riddled with racism, won the city over because of his positiveness. He's a good guy on and off the field. The Dolphins would be lucky to have him...as a back up.
I like Garrard. The only issue is that we'll probably only go with 2 QB's this season on the active roster. You don't really want to cut Moore now because he knows the playbook. If Henne goes down against NE or even Houston, I doubt that's enough time for Garrard to learn it. If we can cut someone else for now until he knows the playbook, it would work out better.
I am not a fan of bringing him in either (especially after his abysmal pre-season) but let's at least acknowledge that from 2005-2010 Garrard has had a higher QBR every year than Henne has ever had. So if Henne progresses this year, he would then have stepped UP to Garrard's level. Something to keep in mind as we denigrate the player. Personally, I think Henne is motivated to perform well in this do-or-die year. I expect he may post a QBR much haigher than his mid-70's career average. Maybe even higher than Garrard's career 85.8 average.
Bad timing for Garrard, if he had been cut prior to training camp I'm sure a lot of teams around the league would be glad to pick him up, he would have been great competition for Henne or our potential starter if he beat out Henne. He is a much better Qb than Moore, we would have been crazy not to pick him up if he had been available sooner. I'm not opposed to bringing him now but he isn't going to be able to play as even a backup for awhile until he can learn the play book so Im not sure its worth it. Sucks for Garrard, he really could have found a good job if he had been cut earlier. He would be good insurance for a team like Indy or Pittsburgh.
The cap floor doesn't come into effect until 2013. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/30/per-team-spending-minimum-doesnt-apply-until-2013/
Well here is the thing and u can ignore it all you want since there isnt a stat for it. Garrard has hit his ceiling, Moore nor Henne has yet. No w thiers may not reach Garard but it could exceed his. The point being stats dont show everythying
We NEED to sign him. Of course I believe henne will succeed and I wish him all the best and by no means do I want him to be benched for Garrard...but none of us can assure Henne will perform and if he doesnt after a few weeks we will be in grind mode. I dont think Moore has what we need to be able to take us to the playoffs in that situation (God forbid that we end up there) but I almost KNOW that Garrard does and after learning the system as a back up for a few weeks hed be ready and thats where he would come in and potentially do things that Henne couldnt or cant and we can still make a run for this thing. Like I said though, God forbid we end up in that situation, and I dont think we will, but whats the worst that can happen? Henne plays well and rides us into the playoffs while Garrard is our backup? FINE BY ME
How could a guy with 0 exposure to the playbook and no familiarity with any of the offensive players give us the best chance to win? These aren't pick-up games where the best athlete is bound to do the best, there is far less margin for error and the difference between the best athletes is extremely small. Hell, even the best players aren't always the best performers at their own position in a given game. If this was a month or so ago, maybe I'd think Garrard was a better option but not now when most of the time and work has already been done.
Eugene Monroe. It's the complete opposite of our Soliai weight watch up here. It's bad MrC. He just can't handle himself against bigger guys. What's worse is that he doesn't exactly dominate speed guys either. He has a tendency to lunge at guys and his legs go WAY away from his body. They're never under him with any leverage. He's very weak. The talk was that he'd gotten up to 290, but I don't see it. He's small. Eben Britton on the right side (the guy who said he's going to be the greatest RT in the history of the game, has been anything but...a bust really). Monroe played well in the 2nd preseason game, against the Falcons I believe. However, he was manhandled in every other game, especially game 1 & 3 (against the Bills).
One other thing I want to point out is this, then I'm off my soap box on how poorly the Jacksonville Jaguars are run. Name a big name FA that is going to want to come to Jacksonville now? Jacksonville can say whatever they want about the reasoning for cutting Garrard, but to cut him 3 days after cut day and 4 days before the season starts is terrible PR. They've basically given Garrard no chance to land anywhere on his feet. Players know that, they recognize that and agents do to. It's bad business. At the most, the decision was made on Saturday, like everyone else, yet they waited. They've now done it to 2 QB's--Leftwich & Garrard. They don't spend any money most FA periods to begin with, but now they will have an extremely hard time attracting players unless they are throwing gobs of gauranteed dollars there way---over the market value. People think Miami is in bad shape and run poorly and has bad PR with players. They ain't seen nothing compared to Jacksonville.
What was really cold blooded was they featured him at the local "get to know the 2011 jags banquet"..then waived him... My goodness, cynic in me thinks they did so for some really bad reasons.
