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Henne, maybe the light has come on ?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolfanJake, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Our new scheme definitely caught NE by surprise to a certain extent because they had not seen us execute it. That is about as far as it goes in the element of surprise.
    Comparing a QB's success in said scheme to a trick formation to me is apples and oranges.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you're saying we went Daunte Culpepper on him. Ok. We should definitely be looking to replace him this offseason then. If that's what it takes for him to look better.

    So the knock on Henning was that he was too predictable and Henne didn't get to make any decisions.

    Now it's easier decisions and less dangerous ones that are allowing him to excel. Those two statements can be somewhat inconsistent.

    You are basically telling us, it wasn't Henne, it was everyone around Henne, that made his play look bad. If a defense has guessed your play, that falls on the QB as much as the OC. If there is a defender in a position to make a play you don't make that throw.

    No offense to you but working as a scout doesn't tell me much about your ability. Again I mean absolutely no offense. If someone worked in a FO or as a scout, I'm wanting to hear insight. But so far, we haven't gotten it. We just have your word he's displayed some ability in one quarter, last year with one throw. it sounds like you have broken Henne's play down. Bust out the analysis! If I see it, sure I might say, yeah you are right. I have no problem with saying that. Until then, it's all "I'm a scout, you're a fan, you're wrong you're just too simple to see it."

    I'd treat Matt Millen's insight the same way and he was GM for an NFL team.
     
  3. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    until he becomes a regular success, then it will be. For the moment the element of surprise is all we really can base it on. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm a pessimist by nature. Always have been and probably always will be and it's just that I haven't seen enough yet to sway my opinion. I like a lot of things that have happened but we can't count on them always yet.
     
  4. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Belicheck is smarter than just overlooking any opponents starting QB.
    They watched preseason film and saw Henne's improvement and were prepared as such.
    Not a doubt in my mind.
    The surprise was the plays being thrown at them and the new found speed of the offense.
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that Daboll provided a QB friendly system, much like what Reid provides for the QBs in Philly. In fact, Daboll's system is heavily influenced by what NE does. Nobody is saying that Brady got the Culpepper treatment. Henning's system left the QB in too many no-win, no-option situations. Henne could have just not thrown it or taken the sack. Daboll provides more options and simply gives the QB more chances to succeed. As for analysis, where have you been the last three years? Henne has been talked about ad-nauseum. DJ provided a very thorough analysis before this season. I would guess that you were part of those discussions and based on your responses here simply disregarded the analysis. If so, then you're one of those that can't see it. Maybe you're simple or maybe you've just already made up your mind and refuse to. I would guess it's the latter, but only you can answer that. Either way, there's no point in doing a bunch of work and having you not understand or disregard it.
     
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  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Brandon Marshall ate McCourty's lunch on MNF.
     
  7. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the wildcat worked, we went to the playoffs, go to miamidolphins .com and the QBs are all talking about the hard work they put in to improve their footwork.
    I saw a remarkable change in Henne's demeanor, he looked confident and decisive he threw the ball with authority and was accurate.
    Most important he had no run support the defense knew what was coming and he still made it happen.
    I like what I see from him but you never know maybe he was lucky, Matt Ryan looked like crap they shut down the running game and that was it, just like Greenbay did it.Maybe they had tape on him.
     
  8. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Whatever. it was still a surprise and my whole point is that next time it won't be.
     
  9. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    I know right. We emptied the whole playbook in one night.
    Now we have nothing left. :wink2:
    Your approach to Henne's success is awkward to say the least.
     
  10. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, if you're going to run different plays every down then sooner or later you run out.
    but yeah, i know what you mean and different plays are really variations based on another. It still leaves a lot for the D to plan around. The more it is run, the harder it is to execute successfully.
    But my approach is awkward? Where did you line up on the "Henne meter" last odd season? ;)
     
  11. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    My stance has never waivered. I believed then and still do that Henne has shown great potential and has all the tools needed to be a good starting QB in this league. I won't say great because the process has been hindered. Will the damage be long term?
    He has been in a terrible system with awful offensive coaching that put him in situations with zero chances to succeed. Now he can be Chad Henne and not a puppet. That is what I wanted to see all along.
    I heard how he couldn't throw a good deep ball but he has done that so far. Then I heard he had concrete feet and no athleticism... So far we have seen that his footwork has been fixable. ETC. ETC.
    I just wanted him to get another chance in a different system before pushing him down the stairs. It's called patience which the majority of Dolphin fans are clueless to.
     
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  12. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I only asked you that question because I really don't know and it's not worth the effort to revisit those threads from last winter to find out who this and that. All I know is that many were dissatisfied and were wanting a replacement. I'll be perfectly hones, I was never very high on Henne while he was at UM and wasn't particularly thrilled when we drafted him. I was hoping for Joe Flacco in the worst way. Had Balt not taken him I hoped we would have. But it's all water under the bridge now anyway. But in all fairness tho, we all talk about players having talent, ability, etc but the simple truth of that is that every player drafted in the league has that, some more so than others, or they would not be here. It's all about how it transfers into the NFL. I don't particularly want for him to be another Joe Ganno and have to wait another 6 years or so.
     
  13. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    You never saw Jackie Shipp play linebacker :lol:
     
  14. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Dorrell also replaced Lee as the QB Coach
     
  15. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, maybe not him !!! :D
     
  16. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Coach-wise, I think he has as much to do with this as anybody.
     
  17. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Lee was a moron. Henne has to feel tons more comfortable not having to go to the sideline and have David Lee tell him what was wrong and justifying Henning's garbage calls.
    Hell I was relieved for him watching the game. :lol:
    Dorrell is merely a set of eyes for Daboll who is truly the one who is coaching the QB.
     
  18. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am certainly willing to remain open minded about the possibility Henne has turned the corner as an NFL QB. But I am not yet ready to jump on the Henne bandwagon. This past Monday was the sixth time in his NFL career that he has passed for over 300 yards. So him having big days as a passer is not unheard of. The question with Henne is whether he can be a consistent QB or not. He has always had the ability to make the throws needed by an NFL QB. The questions about Henne have always been about his mental approach to the game.

    I admit that I have not been a big supporter of Henne as the Dolphins QB. I did not come to this conclusion after Henne played just one game. My view of Henne was developed after watching Henne play for the two previous seasons. So while I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, now that he has a new offensive coordinator he is working with and more freedom to call his own plays at the line of scrimmage. I still have concerns about him, no matter how well he played last Monday night.

    Henne has games coming up against the Jets and the Chargers in the next few weeks. These are two of the best defenses in the NFL. I think I will wait to see how he plays against these defenses, as well as the Texans this week, before I make a judgement as to whether he has come of age as an NFL QB or if he is the same inconsistent QB we have come to know since he arrived in Miami.
     
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  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That's fair, here is where I question Henne:

    "Losers try their best, winners **** the prom queen"

    I just have not seen Chad Henne "there" yet, for example the 4th down call to Hartline in the EZ, a Qb with "it" sticks the throw, keeps their team in the game, the D has to make 1 stop, then they drive for the tying TD, Henne ain't there yet, that is the difference between a "numbers" Qb, and a Winning Qb, who wins all the time.
     
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  20. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or is it the elite qbs receiver comes down with that ball. Henne threw a nice ball, Hartline had it and cCourty pyed it away, I dont get how Henne should have caught it for him. I guess the Leprachaun luck wasnt with him.

    Sorry but part of bradys mystique is that rec3eivers are afraid not make those big plays, that is what Henne needs to build, teh trust and the level that guys are afraid to let him down
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The one time where Henne flashed "it" was in the 09 Jest game on MNF, when he nailed Greg Camarillo on 4th down inside the Jest 20yd line.

    That pats game is one a elite Qb makes that play happen, may not want to hear it, but to me, that is how it is.
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Wait, the endzone pass to Hartline wasn't close to Hartline. That was a terrible throw.
     
  23. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The bottom line is .....the defense put Henne in a position where he couldn't win the game. he never had a chance without a running game and the way the D played.
    You can talk all you want about plays that didn't get executed but Henne was not the problem in this game.
     
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  24. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If its the endzone pass, it wasnt a great pass but from the 1/2 yd line that is a very difficult pass. It had to be perfect to be caught. The one I thought he meant was the one down the sideline where hartline caught it and McCourty tore it out.

    Either way I still find it funny that if teh situ was reversed and Henne played poorly but the deefense gave us a shot but had to make 1 play in the end and we had a shot, If anyone woud say well if teh defense ade 1 play we are in it and they failed, all the Henne critic would point to the fact that the d played well enough to win and had henne played decent we win. How do I know? it happened last year many times. Now you ignore Henne played well enough to win, the defense didnt but ignore your own argument. Which tells me your argument is whichever has henne to blame.

    The offense needs to make plays that are there, but to say they wont is as shortsighted as sayin henne is there. Here is a bet, and will bet a weeks pay. If the defense plays like it did Monday, no matter what Henne does, we will lose more than we win
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Disagree F13, an elite Qb keeps us in that game, the Pats D was not stopping him, the game situation was we had to score on every drive (literally), a Elite Qb can manage it, Henne could not, at least, not yet.

    This is what I meant about "losers try their best, winners **** the prom queen"
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Now hold up there OH, not saying Henne did not have a great night, and the defense a mind boggling bad night, not at all, am saying the "light" will have come on once Henne does stick that particular throw to BLine to keep us in the game, then drives for the win after a single Defensive stop.


    This game is one in which it can be rightfully said, the Defense let us all down, there will be games where the offense lets us down, but the D steps up, leaving no room to blame the season on anyone, and there will be games where the offense and defense are surpassed by ST play, that is why this is a team game.
     
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  27. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I ****ed the prom queen
     
  28. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and the prom queen's mom
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Can u read a defense and throw a deep out 30 yds downfield?
     
  30. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Padre considering what Henne has gone through I think he did an exceptional job, I also believe that his confidence will grow and he can become a very solid QB.
    I watched the Bears Falcons game and Matt Ryan looked as bad as Henne at his worst no running game, I firmly believe that these guys need a very complete team to win, Henne was harassed all game long without a running game and not a very solid OL particularly the right side.
    If Henne had the protection that Brady enjoyed or at least a solid running game he could have won the game.
    Now the key is whether he can be consistent and continue to improve, then he can be properly evaluated and he may be the answer, what I worry about is Henne not showing enough one way or the other and at the end of the season you don't know what you have.
    I just saw a very different QB from last year.
    I always enjoy your insight into the game but I think you expect alot from a guy that's trying to basically make a comeback.
     
  31. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No can you
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why does everything have to be black and white? Why does it have to be Henne is to blame or the defense is to blame?

    Henne played well enough to put Miami in a position to have a victory. However that does not take away from the fact that he still needs to work on his passing in the redzone.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    <enter>

    Paragraphs...:lol:

    J/K

    Texans game shows us all a tonne what Henne is made of.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Henne did not have a problem with his light coming on, he had things working against him that were not in his power to change...Your seeing the natural progression of this particular athlete, your seeing a player that really works on his weaknesses, and improves on them, sometimes exponentially.
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    how is that different from the light coming on?
     
  36. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It doesnt, nor do i have any issues with people saying that there were plays to be made that werent, all true. But it is context. Take away all that and does those issue cost us the game? No. They didnt help us win it, but I think the offense on a whole needs the threat of a run otherwise it will be hard for the offense to carry the team. The point is the offense played well enough to win. I say rather than point to the plays missed, point to the ones made that put us into position til late second half to contend for teh win. the defense didnt put us there. YES they made the one play on teh int, but if Pats hadnt shut off the hurry up, our defense offered little resistance. Henne was teh one that did produce.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    In context to take the next step Henne needs to make those throws. I do not think the defense collapse means that Henne can still struggle in the end zone. Chances are Miami still loses the game, however they Dolphins are still in the game if Henne makes those throws. (And receivers catch of course)

    You can play who is to blame all you want. I want to look at what needs to improve for Miami to win. One thing that needs to improve is Henne's play in the redzone. If Henne is able to improve his play in the redzone then Miami can suffer more horrible defensive collapses like they had on monday.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    a light coming on tells me that the player in discussion was not playing up to par..Imo, he was executing his job responsibilities just fine for a 2nd year starter dealing with a considerable amount of negative variables that directly affect QBR rating and wins and losses.

    I believe Raf has been talking about what the point of this whole Henne debate has been about, a few of us saw the upside in Henne while almost every variable possible continued to make the perception of him, look bad..

    He's the same QB that has dropped his weight some, worked on his footspeed, inserted his leadership at the proper time, and got a new coach..

    None of that tells me the light came on, it tells me the progression of the QB is on plane.
     
  39. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't recall anyone blaming Henne for this loss.
     
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  40. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats my point I am not playing the blame game. saying Henne needs to make those throws so we can win is saying Henne is to blame. My point is this, if the defense plays teh way it did Monday night, we are going to lose more than we win it is that simple. The argument I perceive being made is that if one side (defense) is putrid the solution is to mak the offense perfect. What I was saying in last post is our offense struggled last year and when it was pointed out that there were opportunities for teh defense to pick them up, they didnt. Then counter to that argument was the defense cannot be expected to always pick up for the offensive miscues. WHich is a true argument. But the same applies here, to expect perfection from an offense, especially a brand new offense with no OTA and minis to work through it is unrealistic. You have to look at the facts and the facts are the defense played very poorly and no matter what the offense does, we wont be playoff contenders or rather super bowl contenders with a defense giving up 700 yds total offense and 500+ passing yards
     
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