2 games with the new offense, thoughts?

I personally like it. I think it's an offense that Henne can excel in given the proper time to execute it. I think we saw that in week 1. In week 2 he still made some big plays down field. I think two TDs were left of the field though. One Marshal has to catch... It was a pass that he was partially cradling and didn't bring it in. The second was a miss communication... I can't say it was on Marshal or Henne since I don't know what went down in the huddle or both players minds, but they clearly were not on the same page when Marshall pulled up on his route with one on one coverage against Allen, yet again. I am guessing Marshall thought he could over-power Allen into the end zone again... but Henne was looking for a high jump ball... both of which, probably would have resulted in a TD had both been on the same page.

However it was a much more exciting offense to watch, that is for damn sure. I think the results will come.

 

With the exception of finishing, yes. Right now I'm worried its going to be a 20 to 20 offense.

 

He was looped and should have been pulled. They need to get the running game going and it will help from him getting crushed. Hopefully this past week was DT's coming out party AND he hold on to the ball. I did think the tempo is uneven and it lacks consistency. The upside far outweighs the down at this point.

 

I like some of it. Still not taking shots downfield enough. In game #1 they got away from what worked in the first drive of the game, I felt. Failure to use PA pass after establishing the run. I don't see enough isolation/scheme plays, maybe that's because we don't have enough play makers though. Much better than last year especially if they can run for 130 a game.

 

I think with the emergence of Thomas as a short yardage and up the gut runner, we'll now be able to score if he stays consistent. If we spread the offense with a single back, and have Reggie Bush in the slot, we can do a lot of things in the red zone.

I'm just not sure we have the FB blocking in a conventional I or Split backs formation (although you won't have a huge amount of lead plays out of splits).

 

I do like it. I think with Thomas going the O can be alright.

 

Chad Vick.

 

Compared with last years offense it's much better.......but last years offense really sucked....

It's great to get excited over the improvements the team has made but to consider these improvements sufficient to compete on a high level is a little far fetched IMO. They have to many holes to fill to be a contender for anything....And before that can happen the friggin organization has to understand it......which they don't....

Same can be said about Henne....He has shown improvement over a dreadful last year, but is he a ligitimate #1 NFL QB, not in my opinion but that's the hand we are dealt so we have to play it out....

 

I think it is much improved considering it was a short training camp. It may take a little while to get real comfortable in it. They wasted some time trying Bush as a between the tackles running back. I wish they had kept Polite for short yardage. I believe he would have done a better job than Soliai. Daniel Thomas was a pleasant surprise. When it all comes together it will be fun to watch.

 

I would like to think that the attempt at running Bush between the tackles was two fold: 1. Bush really wanted to be the guy and yelled the loudest, that he was determined to be the guy. 2. Daniel Thomas was banged up and was not ready week 1. I tend to think it was number 2 myself.

 

I love that Henne ranks first in % of passes thrown 15 yards or more. He's at 29.1% and Sanchez is second at 26.5%. I think this is a big reason why we are moving the ball down field fairly well. We're 11th in total yards but 24th in total points. Obviously the red zone is a problem. That's why the yards aren't yielding more points. Despite that I'm encouraged. In theory I think fixing red zone problems should be easier than fixing the problem of not even being able to get in the red zone.

But even with Henne throwing beyond 15 yards often, I agree with a post above that says we still need to throw deeper (more than just 15 yards) more often. Aside from the dropped TD, which was big, Marshall seems to have his game together. And hopefully Gates can get a few more shots like he got on Sunday. So I think those guys should be targeted more. If we get more of that hopefully teams start clearing out some space underneath for Bush and Bess to be able to do their thing.

 

I think there is too much shot gun formation in the new offense.

 

I really like this offense .I really do .
Its definitely more entertaining than last years version.
The execution , personnel selection and time management problems are still there unfortunately.
At least the offense will be fun to watch this year .

 

With Thomas running hard between the tackles, I feel a lot better about being able to move the chains and punch it in on short yardage plays. The OL still needs work, but this offense should get better as the season rolls along. Henne and Marshall will finally get on the same page and that will be huge.

Sadly, it may be "too little, too late" to save this season or Sparano. I'd feel bad for Tony, but I'm getting really tired of the penalties, wasted timeouts, and the OL issues. Yeah it was a 1-15 team, but in year four you have to do better than another losing season.

 

They bounced back, down from 13 in the second half yesterday. They were poised to take the lead when the other team caused a perfect turnover that you really can't blame on Thomas' running style. They ran a no-huddle for the first time since I can remember. It should only get better assuming Henne won't become severely concussed.

 

doesn't look good, but the season is young

 

In preseason I generally liked the changes to the offense and the changes to the way the QB plays in it, but there was something that really bothered me at times with the play calling. The play calling on goal line, short yardage and 3rd down all seemed to really just not be right, a lot of times. I just didn't like it.

That's carried over into the season. It's a little disturbing. The Browns were 19th in 3rd down percentage a year ago and 26th the year before that...but they were also just kind of a bad offense. Dunno, but I haven't liked it.

I think Chad Henne is running too much. He's scrambling a lot. I know it's new and it's exciting but he is not a good athlete and yet the guys on defense really kind of are. If he makes this a habit, he's going to screw up, not slide, take a bad hit, hurt his shoulder or get concussed (if he isn't already, see that 4 yard scramble on 3rd & 5). He's run the ball 10 times in 2 games, he's on pace for 80 runs. Even Mike Vick last year only ran the ball 59 times. Aaron Rodgers ran the ball half that amount. And both guys are FAR better athletes that are far more used to running around and gaining yards. Being a better athlete helps you defend yourself when you're running around. You can do more things that soften hits, or avoid them altogether. Or if you're just used to it, your instincts will be pretty good for sliding when you need to slide, etc. But when Chad's running, so far he's been running pretty aggressively. He's not gaining a few yards and then sliding immediately. One of the concerns about him in college was that he used to stand in there and take shots in the pocket, very tough and physical that way. Unfortunately if he's bringing that attitude when he's doing his White Vick impersonation, he's going to get hit pretty hard...and he's not a good enough athlete or experienced enough ball carrier to handle that. Like I said, it might already be too late. We'll see what the results of tests are this week but I think Chad may have gotten a concussion on that 3rd & 5 play.

 

Philosophically, I like the look of it. The O-line, save for Mike Pouncey so far this year, has been bad. Obviously Jake Long is an elite talent, but I think he's been hampered a little by a lack of training camp time. Just think what the line might look like if it lined up:

LT - Long
LG - anyone more athletic than Richie Incognito. Perhaps Brian Waters?!
C - Pouncey
RG - Incognito
RT - Carey

Daniel Thomas looked pretty good.

Davone Bess and Anthony Fasano need more touches.

For all the clamoring about the speed added by guys like Reggie Bush and Clyde Gates, they've produced pretty much nothing to this point. Reggie Bush was a waste of a signing, and until they figure out that they have to use him like the Saints did, they're just proving me right. Gates, you can see flashes, but it's not quite there yet.

I hate to say this, as I've been pretty neutral on Chad Henne from last year to this year, but I'd really like the look of this offense with a proven quarterback, or would like to see it with someone like Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley. Chad's impressed me though.

Chad Henne in the redzone still sucks - can't beat around the bush there, and as someone already stated in the thread, this might be a between the 20's offense. That said, it's nice to no longer be stuck in the Dan Henning 20 yard box offense.

Brandon Marshall is on pace for a pretty good season. He, like Fasano and Bess, needs more touches as well.

Again, I wonder what it'd look like to have a different QB in there, or if we had signed Ahmad Bradshaw as opposed to trading for Reggie Bush.

Overall, I think my sentiment is still: "What if?"

 

One of the things I have a problem with Chad is that he still doesn't have a good feel for buying time with his feet. There was a 22 yard pass to Hartline that made it look like he got the idea. He ran out of the pocket, looked down field and threw the ball.

Then there is the play at the nine yard line where he threw a pass to Hartline that would have been hard for any quarterback to make. The thing is, he had all to the right to continue to run and buy time for receivers to get open.

I would like to see that 3rd and 5 yard play again, but it did look to me that the pass rush was behind him and he could have bought more time with his feet on that play. Again, I do need to see it again to make a proper judgement

 

That is a lot of if's.
Just like my take..... Marshall steps up we are in the football game.
Could have won it..... IF.

 

I don't think you can single out Brandon Marshall. Not without singling out any member of the defense, Chad Henne, Marc Colombo, etc, and to do so is absurd.

 

I went ahead and tallied up the hits on QB myself for the 2nd game, as I'm not sure when PFF plans to release their stats on the game. Considering the following is only 2 games, this is too much.

Scrambles with hits: 3
Passes with hits: 18
Sacks: 6
Total shots on QB: 27
Projected Total: 216

Consider that all of last year, our QBs took only 32 hits on pass attempts, according to Pro Football Focus. Now, Chad Henne and Tyler Thigpen did also run the ball a total of 35 times (not counting kneel downs), and of course they took 40 sacks. But if you consider that Chad Henne has run the ball 9 times (not counting a kneel down) and only taken 3 hits on those I think it's fair to imagine that Henne and Thigpen probably only took sacks on maybe 12 of those runs.

That's 84 shots on QB for the year. Tallying the same way for 2009, our QBs took only 73 shots on QB. Tallying the same way in 2008, only 62 shots on the QB.

We're literally on pace to take as many shots on QB in 2011 as all three years 2008, 2009 and 2010 combined.

That's not going to be good for this team. Everyone's all excited about the steps Chad Henne has taken in this new, aggressive offense...what good does it do if that success is bought with a risk factor that ensures Henne's not going to make it through the year? We that interest in finding out how good of a backup Matt Moore is?

 

As a matter of fact I'm staring at the play right now. If this were a running (ehem) quarterback, certain people would probably criticize that scramble as a perfect example of what "doesn't work" in the pros. That's something you see on a lot of these scrambles, he's very decisive with it. When you say it like that, label it decisive, it sounds good. But like I said, if it were Cam Newton doing it? That's a young running QB showing that he's too quick to take his eyes off the field and try and make plays with his legs.

On this particular play he did the right thing scrambling out and buying time against a 6 man rush, with only 1 extra guy staying in the pocket to protect him. But he takes his eyes off the field immediately, and he's not flattening out at all to try and stay behind the line of scrimmage. He's just sprinting straight forward the whole time. He had two options that uncovered off the scramble. Marshall uncovered immediately and was standing at the first down marker. If Henne had kept the ball up he could have thrown it to him while scrambling forward out of pressure. If he had a particularly good sense of where everyone was on the field, he could have hit Fasano who came open as well, that would have been big yardage if he'd hit it.

 

Funny you say Cam Newton because he is doing the opposite. He has been really good at flattening out and using his legs to buy more time while looking down field. That is where a lot of his big plays have come from.

 

With 2 games of data, I see too many plays where for the play to be successful, a great play has to be made, I would like to see space created thru scheme design, and anyone who throws fade routes on 4th down has a ways to go before I get some peace about the position of offensive coordinator..Other than that, not bad for a guy that was supposed to suck prior to arrival.

 

The problem is the redzone offense doesn't look natural.
The offense as a whole looks forced inside the 20. Our guys aren't really on the same page. Henne looks forced and unnatural inside the 20. He needs some quality reps to build redzone rapport with his receivers, and he needs these reps so he can catch up with QBs who've already been given more opportunity to settle in down there. Henning's wildcat crutch and "make no mistake philosophy" has really stunted our offense and Henne's development. Heck, Sam Bradford was given more redzone passing opportunities in 1 season than Henne had in 2 years, so it's not surprising that this part of Henne's game hasn't slowed down as much as the rest of it. Because of this, he's not at the point where he's really able to improvise. This will likely be a work in progress for some of the season, and as long as it progresses, then I'm comfortable with it.

For some reason we keep going to the fade to Hartline, which I don't understand why when we have 4 or 5 elusive guys with great short area quickness and the ability to gain quick separation. It's like we keep trying to sneak in a Hartline fade thinking it's the last place a defense would expect us to go. Well, there's a reason they don't expect it----- it doesn't have a very good success rate. lol. Throw the fade to our only redzone target, Marshall, or don't throw it at all IMO. I'd also like to see us just spread it out and look for the mismatch or let Henne sneak it again. Chad does need to remember to chuck it out of the endzone rather than take a sack.

 

I think it is because Hartline is 6'1" and is pretty good at catching high passes. Heck, look at that beautiful catch he made out of bounds due to the pass being a little far on Sunday. He is capable of making that catch with a good throw. In fact, he did a little later when Henne threw a really nice play.

I do agree that there is something not natural. Henne and the receivers need to work more to get on the same page, especially for redzone.

Maybe the problem is reps, however as of right now Henne is not a good redzone quarterback. He still needs to work on his ball placement and he also needs to work on running to open space while still looking in the redzone.

 

I agree, and I honestly believe it all comes back to reps....... as well as being in a new offense. Chad doesn't have much of a problem moving the ball into FG range, but that's expected IMO b/c he's accustomed to it b/c Henning used him as a workhorse between the 20's all last season. The redzone was the complete opposite. In between the 20's we're now seeing him using his feet more and creating more plays with them, but I think that's b/c that aspect of the game has had a chance to slow down b/c of all the reps he's had there. It's like the redzone is developmentally a year behind, so to me it only makes sense to see this aspect not currently on par with the rest of his game. But hey, if Marshall doesn't drop his TD or stop his route on the other pass (and didn't he drop a TD vs NE?) then Henne has between 4 to 6 TD passes in 2 games. Even with these errors, new offense, and guys not being on the same page, he's on pace for 24 TDs.

I don't mean to be bash on Hartline, but I just see a something wrong with Brian receiving as many or more pre designed fade routes than Marshall. Look at the Lions. Everyone on the planet expects Calvin to get the ball, yet Detroit still calls his number and gives their elite WR an opportunity to make a play. And yes, that was a beautiful grab by Brian. It's not one that I would entrust him to make every time, but at least he's now shown that he can make it.

 

One thing they should do on goal line situations is scrap some of the fades for back shoulder throws. Henne doesn't seem to throw the fade very well. And Marshall seems to be getting played to run a slant route a lot, which is why he has broken off a few routes hoping that Henne will throw it to the shoulder that is away from the defenders. Henne shouldn't have a problem with that type of throw.

I'd also like to see Bess run the quick out that Welker ran against us on the goal line. I think Bess can do it about as well as Welker. Its just going to be on Henne to get the ball out quickly and make it an accurate throw.

 

I have a feeling we still haven't seen all the offense Daboll has to offer yet.

Remember, the Wildcat didn't premiere until Week 4 against the Patriots and that was the first year under the new regime, so...with this new offensvie regime, there may still be some plays that haven't surfaced yet.

 

I would be curious to know how many total trips we made inside the red zone last season compared to trips inside where we never used the wildcat for even one play.

 

They have a good plan of moving the ball up aand down the field...

They have to create a good consistant one when in the Red Zone... Marshall being the main and only target will not do it...

 

I really like the offense and hope we can find some balance with getting the running game, the deeper passing game and the short game to Bush all involved at the same time. Seems like drives feature one element for the duration instead of a good mix.

But I agree with others on 3rd downs and goal line situations. Part of it is Henne, but a lot of it just seems to be miscommunication and possibly overly-aggressive playcalling.

Maybe I'm only remembering the wrong plays, but it seems like there have been quite a few 3rd and short distances where we've gone deep with the ball. When you have guys like Bess and Marshall on the team, those 3rd and 6 or less should be practically automatic. We seem to be taking Bess out of his element, and it is having an impact on our ability to convert on 3rd down and in goal line situations. Tossing the ball up and letting guys like Marshall and Hartline go get it is great, but you can also just let guys get open and hit them in space.

In the Patriots game, they lined Wes Welker up on the goal line and everyone knew it was an automatic touchdown - with Bess AND Marshall on this team, we should feel the same way.

 

So far, it hasn't worked out.