This is all absolutely true and common sense. But again, you spent the entire offseason swearing up and down how foolish it was to rely on players, Thomas specifically, to have success early, and given the reality It is really difficult to imagine Thomas having a more successful game earlier, realistically. Its not as if what you said was well supported and coincidentally wrong, either. Runningback is the least cerebral position on offense and arguably both sides of the ball, with little required of a well-rounded prospect besides acclaimation to game speed. Nor can you cite his preseason as evidence, because what he did there was pretty much exactly par for course on all but 2-3 of his peers, and I'm not even sure that those apply given the respective levels of competition.
That is just not true. All runningbacks can block people. The dumb asses don't recognize what the defense is doing and double team a DE while a linebacker murders your QB.
There is a serious problem with player development. Ireland can recognize raw ability and it seems the edges are smoothed out and what is at one time exciting becomes pedestrian (by NFL standards). Does that fall on Ireland or Sparano? Who should recognize and correct their development issues? CK is right, every 2 years Miami has to reach out and upgrade what was solid or promising. QB, OLB, G/T, C, TE, WR, RB, S, C.... everywhere?
True..I remember when we were all running around this forum beating our chests about the "BEST Offensive Line in the AFC". Remember that? Long, Smiley, Grove, Thomas, Carey. Now, that unit is a disaster and a COMPLETE rebuild project for next year, being that Carey's career is in Hospice, Colombo is terrible, and Incognito is on performance probation. Well, 2 out of 5 ain't bad.
What is less cerebral, then, on offense? Runningbacks very rarely run block, so its half the responsibility of other positions besides WR, and backs are usually restricted to pretty simple reads relative to other pass blockers. Big on big, back on backer the general rule for man blocking so they're not in a position to deal with linemen unless assigned to do so, and in zone blocking their position in the backfield and general assignments are also less complex than a TE or OL would be.
Well when you're making a subjective assessment I think its valid to question the context. I think its a little hyperbolic to say were in "pitiful" shape. I would say average shape would be more appropriate.
While I have disagreed with Ireland on many of the moves made and not made, I think that on balance he's done a good job. And I'm not one of those guys who was excited about Misi early. I said he was just a guy with limited upside from the beginning. I've maintained all along that Henne was not franchise guy, just a guy that was as good as all those other non-franchise guys that were potentially available. You could pretty much go down the list CK provided and you won't find any guy I got unduly excited about. Pouncey and Daniel Thomas, on the other hand, I do think were good picks. I see Pouncey as 10 year starter with top 5 positional potential. In a league where NTs and DTs are already highly valued, the center position has to be as much of a core position. If you don't have a good pivot, you generally can't run. And DT was the last available big back on that talent tier. I don't see him as a top 5 talent guy, but I can see him as a bell cow. And I see him as a very low risk pick. He'll be either good or very good. I can't say that I would have made all of the same picks as Ireland (and I do think my selections would have resulted in a better balanced team), but I also can't say his selections were all that bad. Comparing him to most GMs, I would say he's been better than most.
I'm not going to say that we have an elite offensive line, but the harsh criticism I've seen in Miami over the last two years constitutes a severe case of tunnel vision. Go ahead and take a look at pretty much any fan-based message board in the country: No matter where you go, they'll tell you that OL is their most glaring weakness and that the whole unit is in dire need of a serious rebuild. Pick 10 OLs you consider better than Miami's, tell that to their fans and I absolutely guarantee that the vast majority will say, what the heck are you talking about, yours is pretty decent and ours is way more terrible, dude.
He was/is a great coach. You dont make a handful of AFC title games and then win the big one with your own personnel man running the show. And above all else he wanted Roethlisberger where the prior front office regime was content with Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart type Qbs that wouldnt lose the game for the Steelers under Cowher but also couldnt go out and win it either. When Donahoe was outed, thats when the Steelers started winning AFC title games and winning the Super Bowl. And lets be honest here; a great front office gets the talent that makes a coach look great. So sometimes you need a great front office before a coach can be recognized as great. Conversely we may find out Ireland was the best personnel man ever if some other coach comes in and wins with his guys. Works both ways.
You can use a trained monkey to play TE in the NFL. In some systems, Guards have singular responsibilities spelled out to them by the center.
could not disagree more. The Dolphins have 2 reliable guys. Both were high draft picks. All the "detective" work in turning over rocks has sucked. Their dedication to spending big on the OL, blew up in their face.
Like I said, pick 10 OLs you'd rather have and then explain that to their respective fans. It'll be a fun day of "geez, how can this moron think our OL is better than theirs, LOL"
Wow you mean it happened only 20 years ago instead of 35 years ago? Well, shut me up. Clearly taking a Center that high is commonly accepted practice.
Whether centers are regularly taken early doesn't determine whether it's a good pick or not. Most teams don't generally take two TEs, yet everybody is praising NE and Baltimore for being ahead of the curve. The safety position is rarely taken high, (the same argument that you can fill the position later in the draft), but if you hit with Reed (24th pick) or Polamalu (16th pick) it's a big step towards building your team. Safeties and centers are smart picks even in the first round if you're looking at an elite prospect. Those are core positions even though every team hasn't figured it out yet. The Dolphins blew it by not taking Earl Thomas when they had the chance, but at least they were smart enough to take Pouncey.
I maintain that Irish is heavily influenced by Karl Peterson's approach in KC, he rarely had a #1 pick bust, he also rarely had a #1 pick who was anything but solid, outside of Larry Johnson, and Peterson had a hard time drafting a Qb who had much success. We take solid, uninspired, players in the draft, Pouncey is likely to play for a decade, but he won't be a difference maker.
Pretty much, best OL and Secondary and passrusher does not equal=Championship Does win a lot of games though.
I suggest you reread the premise of the thread, this is for taking two players that I feel good about over the 1..those are assets for our future regardlessof his tenure or situation.
No, I don't think it sounds ridiculous at alll, ive seen you make judgements on players and coaches without seeing them play in our uniform or be on our sideline..What I think is ridiculous is you have NFL film on two rookie prospects that played at a high level..That ain't college tape, that ain't preseason tape, its tape enough to feel good about projecting them moving forward...What do you have on mallet?.I understand that its early to annoint them but thats not what Iam doing here, Iam merely saying that from real game tape when the real bullets are flying this scenario that he played out in this years draft looks to have been a very good move from a gm perspective.
I agree that Ireland has generally opted for lower risk early picks (although by all accounts Long was a BP choice), but I disagree that Pouncey won't be a difference maker. I think he has the talent to be elite and that the center position in general is more important than ever as pressure up the middle is one of the primary tools defenses use against spread offenses. And as always, without a strong pivot you don't do any running inside.
shall we close down thephins.com and revisit 3 years later before we can talk about the move..Were talking about player evaluation here, you have NFL film on both players, not sure whats wrong with respecting the move seeing that they have both played very well...I for get, who did you want with our first round pick?
At #15 overall? Pouncey will be a fine player, that is not great value in terms of producing...TD's, it is nice schematically, but still, need more out of that high of a pick Rafi. NOLA signed Kruetz and have had no problems, but what this regime does is a sort of "well, so and so is almost as good as so and so, but one will go in the 1's, the other in the 2's, so we can have 2 good players instead of 1 outstanding player if we take 2 safe picks, 1 high, the other later on" That causes that extra percentage of performance not to be there at key positions.
Peterson's closeness to Ross is one of the big reasons I'm concerned about the potential changes to the front office. I do not want him anywhere near this franchise. Growing up in Kansas, watching those Chiefs teams with a stellar defense lead by stud LB Derrick Thomas and DE Neil Smith, getting by with mediocre QB play, always in the playoffs but never farther ... pass. That team never got any better, just older and progressively worse. If Peterson finagles his way into this franchise I will seriously re-evaluate my loyalty to the Dolphins.
I don't think he will have to VO, Irish "is" Peterson, at least it appears obvious to me he is. And KC did not always have mediocre Qb play, they did have some good Qb's (TGreen for example) but not "elite" types of Qb's. Irish's approach made sense in the 08-10 period when our cupboard was barren in terms of talent, however he has to step his game up and swing for the fence or we will be #3 or #2 in the AFCE for a very long time.
How many of those 'good' (I use the term loosely) QBs did the Chiefs draft in that time? (Hint: It's the same as the amount of QBs that Miami has drafted post Marino). So ... my point is, if we sack Ireland and replace him with a Peterson, don't expect us to go out and draft Luck. It's not his MO.
I see your tactic. This is the part where you pretend I said something I didn't, so that you get to mask things that you did actually say. Sorry, it isn't going to work. I never said hey let's not discuss these draft picks until 3 years down the road. Discuss them all you want. But you DID imply that it's ridiculous/stubborn/obstinent of me not to acknowledge that they made better choices than my preferences, based on 2 games (sorry, 1 game, for Daniel Thomas) of data. Yeah. THAT is a little ridiculous. Discuss the draft picks all you want. Speculate all you want. But when you go as far as questioning other peoples' differences of opinion only 1 game into a guy's career, I think that's kind of a little embarrassing, just my opinion.
I think maybe I'm not clear VO..Ireland is not going anywhere, Sparano, if fired, will have his replacement chosen by Jeff Ireland...imo. Things go bad, they will take Luck, if he is there.
I really don't think Petersen wants to have day-to-day 70 hour per week control of a football team. Don't think he ahs it in him anymore. And for all the flack, the man did recommend Bill Cowher to Pittsburgh, hired Marty Schottenheimer and lured dick Vermeil out of retirement.
I had thought this too, but now I'm not so sure. Face time with the boss only gets you so far. Even Ross has to see that we are lacking true superstars, that's personnell. Also, I doubt that Ross would allow Ireland to stand in the way of Cowher or Gruden if that's what it took. Last year, maybe that wasn;t the case. If we go 7-9 or worse this year, then it's a whole different story.
I'm pretty much convinced Peterson and Ireland were on the plane during Ross's Big Adventure. Next HC will be hired by Ireland, not by Ross. Bust as I've said, 0-2 is no real reason to think Sparano will be canned save for people wishing it were to happen.
The reason he's going to get canned is because four years in he still can't compete with the AFC's best. He still hasn't moved us any closer to challenging NY and NE. Hell Buffalo may very well pass us this season.
I thought Ireland was a step or two up on the safe ladder , I don't think so now. This is going to play out until the end of the season unless some huge issue occurs imo. If at best this team is 7 and 9 and Buff is ahead of Miami , I highly doubt Ireland survives the purge . Parcell's deserves some/a lot of th blame but he is gone and Ireland will have had enough time on his own to show he was correcting the drifting franchise. If that hasn't been shown , and it hasn't right now imo , he deservedly will be gone as well. Unfortunate , in that it means starting over with a new direction , staff , management and time frame. However, this needs to be addressed properly at some point , and if that has to occur to get this franchise really back on track , so be it. There are pieces so it won't be starting from the absolute floor , and hopefully if this happens the new GM will recognize that and keep what will eventually work to build a consistent playoff team .
Given the draft talent available, yes. And that's what they did in trading back the year before. That's not what they did in taking Pouncey. It's also not what they did in trading up for Thomas. In fact, trading up for Thomas was the opposite of looking for two good players instead of one they see as having higher potential.
No, you can't. The standard is relatively lax, and there are a lot of coaches willing to give a bunch of snap to players who get destroyed in the run game and rarely pass block, but the position isn't easier. In-line blocking is going to have the same kind of rules as a linemen, and a lot of guys have motion and all the stuff that comes with that including different positioning a linemen does not.
