Bess isn't just an ordinary player you can find on the street. He's a talent. I think there are way more than Long, based on talent and draft position.
here is a question i have and i am not sure if this is on henne or the coaches: henne seems to be making a lot more big plays, but none of them are in the end zone...a few of the deep (30+ yard) sideline plays to hartline and marshall for example. my question is if henne is pulling the trigger too early or is daboll calling these plays too far from the end zone? or is it just dumb luck... in other words, think about the difference in the game today if the deep hartline play was called at the browns 35 yard line rather than on our side of the field. or is that chad is not accurate enough and that play should have been a TD?
The whole debate about how good Henne is or isn't is completely pointless. He will not be our QB next year. Think about it...if you got a new job, would you want to bet that job on Henne playing well? Niether will the next HC of the Fins.
You watched preseason; was that the same Offense as you saw out there today? No. We're back to the same dink-and-dunk bull**** O that we had last season and the season before...the 15-play drives with a QB who makes mistakes, an O-Line that cannot block and a running game that is ineffectual when you need it most. Does that look like the dangerous spread formations we ran in preseasons or the turtle-shell Offense we've seen way too much of already?
I think from the players' standpoint, Channing Crowder's criticism of Chad Henne, as amorphous as it was...is probably the thing that rings true with all the players on the team. Everyone saw out there today how despite everything, despite mistakes, suckitude, the Browns mustering up some great plays at the end...we still had a chance. And not some far off, distant chance that's like "Oh well TOM BRADY would have welcomed the opportunity to drive it 80 yards for a touchdown with 1:06 remaining and no timeouts". No, not like that at all. ONE FIRST DOWN. That's it. One first down and four plays to do it. And they had a timeout. They had...a timeout. Every part of the field was open to them. Channing Crowder's criticism was just that Henne can't win you these games in that type of situation. In fact, Crowder's criticism was that Henne can't win you the game in situations much harder than that, this was an easy one. And he still...couldn't...do it. You know, the players may be mad at Sparano, they may have sold out on him...but I imagine that every single one of those players is also thinking that they don't have a quarterback that is going to make plays in critical situations, which was the crux of Crowder's assessment as to why Henne is not the guy. And if you as a player don't think you have a quarterback that is going to make critical plays for you even in extremely doable clutch situations...I don't know how any of those players can have confidence in their team. Henne is not THE weakness of the team by any means. But he is clearly A weakness. And by virtue of the position he plays, he's going to be the weakness the players are most sensitive about when it comes to their confidence in themselves as a team.
We have on OL that is awful. Yes, I said awful. You don't "explode" offensively with drastic weaknesses up front. Straight line run blocking we can get by but pass protection is a complete disaster. We have a RT that has been a turnstyle his entire career. Instead of going after a Guard in FA we ingeniously move an old slow footed RT to Guard in favor of an old turnstyle RT. Our other Guard is a mauler WHEN he gets latched onto people but if he's out of position at all his lack of athleticism is horribly exposed. Our Center is showing great promise but he's a rookie and he's been overpowered many times. Our all pro LT is clearly not fully healthy and struggling. So no, I'm not willing to say "Great game Henne" but I am willing to objectively look at what is truly hampering this offense. That's just a start by the way. We haven't even gotten into a what continues to seem to be a flawed coaching staff that has problems preparing this team.
Here's the thing people don't wanna admit: If this team absolutely sucks, we won't get 6 wins. We'll still win five or so by accident. That means no Luck. That means draft elsewhere. DE? WR? Trade back and get Safety and Line help? That Means Henne returns next year, unless some elite FA signs here, which... doesn't happen here too often. I guess Dansby? Marshall and Bush were trades. Henne will be back if he continues to play at this level. Accept it. You don't blow up a team and create 53 areas of need. You assess the talent level you have, which will begin in a few weeks after regime change. They determine who they want around. D. Thomas Marshall Bess Gates (2nd year, unique skill amongst our roster) Wake Vontae Sean Smith Burnett Dansby Solai Long, of course Pouncey Odrick Those guys will all be back as a nucleus of this team, love it or hate it. After that, Guys with questions are considered. I think Henne leads that group, but is brought back. To blame Chad Henne when he's completing like 70% of his passes with what, 2 INTs? Is asinine. This defense needs more need of dire rebuild than the offense, which is odd as it's the polar opposite of what we expected going in.
I agree with a lot here, and good analysis showing how pitiful the OL is, but 51 yards is not missing "a chip shot".
He's 2 dropped TDs away from ranking in the top 7.... and he has as many TDs as Rivers.... one more than Roethlisberger..... and twice as many as Bradford and Freeman. Does that mean the Rams should be looking to replace #1 overall pick, Sam? Does Jake protect Henne from the other defensive guys sacking Henne 4 times in the 2nd half? Currently our pass blocking is like a malfunctioned toll booth that has the gate stuck open. With all due respect, are you trying to say that guys like Stafford grow on trees? What about all the other 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year starting QBs who aren't playing like Stafford? Instead of expecting Brady-like play to compensate for a sloppy team, how about we expect a talented team to play solid fundamental football like a talented playoff caliber team should? IMO there's absolutely no reason for this type of overall talent level to be relying on a QB to win games in the 4th qtr on a weekly basis.
Let's give some credit to the Browns. They did a phenomenal job of taking that away, except for Hartline's two big plays. We were in shotgun, we ran some no huddle, we did everything that we've seen before.
I saw him with the sheet. I believe he does it at times too, but I don't think he does it as nearly as much as we think.
I don't want to derail this thread but I the references to Jay Fiedler have given me a bit of gas so I have to release. Those early 2000 teams never won BECAUSE of Jay Fiedler. No better example of just because a team is winning it dosen't mean you have a good QB could be offered. Wanny's love affair with elf ears is just one of the MANY ways he destroyed our franchise. Just needed to be stated.
You're rationalizing; they can't take away what we never lined up in. We never saw the spread today, we have insisted on using Bush as an inside runner instead of creating space for him, and we're lining up in tight formations, with Garner playing Tackle-eligible about 1/3 of the Offensive plays. That's as far from the one-back/no-back spreads we saw the team was capable of when the games didn't count, and now that they do Sparano has put the governor on the engine and we're sputtering along at 55MPH on the Autobahn.
We have a guy (Brandon Marshal) that dominated YAC before he got here. We have a guy (Davone Bess) that gets in and out of routes faster than Wes Welker but his YAC is virtually nonexistent. We have a guy (Reggie Bush) that was the most productive RB in the NFL passing game before he got here. We have a TE (Anthony Fasano) who showed he was worth the draft pick given up for him alone much less the other player the year he got here. We have a guy who was just described as a magician on the sideline yet no pass he catches in the middle of the field seems to allow him to stay on his feet. All except for one has played through two different coordinators but their issues seem to remain the same. My sister in law carries a concealed weapons permit. She has had professional training in marksmanship. She owns a 9mm pistol and brought it to my range. We set up the target on a clear summers day and she proceded to shoot out a spotlight that sits 15 yards in front of the target on the ground.
I agree with a lot of this. Marshall may not stay though. I don't know if he simply becomes a malcontent pretty much forcing a trade with all the upheaval. Sean Smith should be taken off that list for me personally and I'm adding CB to what is a long list of needs. The kid absolutely refuses to turn around and play the ball. Even covering TE's he can't seem to hold his own enough to turn around and play the ball. That's not good for someone who considers himself as part of one of the best tandems of starting CB's in the NFL.
We're going to have a Matt Stafford type of QB to draft when the next draft begins. Your excuses for Henne are pointless. He's going to be replaced in the next draft.
2001 @ Denver, JF drove the Dolphins down the field in 50 some secs to have Mare kick a 52 yd FG with 11 secs left to beat the Broncos on ESPN's Sun nite football. With a broken finger
I agree with this..... just as I feel you could insert over 3/4 of the starting NFL QBs into the 2nd part of this statement. Atlanta, Baltimore, TB, NY, StLouis, Chicago, and Arizona all spent 1st round picks on a QB, yet are not legit contenders b/c of their current QB play (because all these guys are still developing). Then you have teams like San Diego and Houston showing us it doesn't matter what your QB does if you don't play sound TEAM football.
lol. Lot of assumptions on your part..... and there's a LONG list of busted 1st round QBs who might question the "certainty" of your statement.
The most physical game I have ever witness the Dolphins play. I didn't think either team would be healthy enough to finish the season after that game.
First round Quaterbacks do bust. That's not the point, though. Henne hasn't gotten the job done. His situation isn't as bad as you make it out to be. He's had his chances, and he hasn't gotten it done. Hopefully, the next Quaterback will.
It isn't pointless, Henne has played well enough this year and has improved significantly enough to not automatically be dismissed for next year . Totally disagree with that premise. He has to improve some of the nuances in his game but he has this season to do just that. Let's see. We have much much bigger concerns.
This is it in a nutshell. You've developed this QB. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. He has all the tools to be as good as Eli manning, and that can win you an SB.
Yay! He had a drive that put us in range for a 52 yard field goal. That completely overrides all the limitations Fiedler shackled our offense with those years. Yeesh!
I think a lot of people are assuming that even finding a QB with these skills is a given. That's a mistake. We could certainly improve on Henne. Using the #1 pick on a QB dosen't guarantee that though. Hell even if you draft a QB next year, you still need to keep a starter. Henne's here at least through next year IMO. No reason to dump him, not continue developing him and throw a rookie into a firestorm. Henne immediately becomes better had we improved the OL successfully.
Chad Henne is a free agent this off season and franchising him would be the worst mistake imaginable because he's not worth even a fourth of the cost of the franchise tender. I wouldn't assume he's definitely here next year. Whoever gets brought in as the Head Coach will have a lot to do with which veteran QB comes to the team next year. Everyone will be starting from scratch in whatever new offense is to come (and trust me it will be a new offense, Brian Daboll is one-and-done unless we hire someone from NE to be our Head Coach). It's not like Henne will be "entrenched". He's going to go off to greener pastures and Miami is going to get the veteran that makes the most sense for them. If it's Jon Gruden for instance he might like the idea of a veteran that is more familiar with the west coast offense, so that there is some basis for translation. If it's Bill Cowher, who even knows. And if Miami is in position to draft Andrew Luck...well, forget Chad Henne. Andrew Luck starts Day 1.
Very good points.... and that's where, IMO, it comes back to Henne's lack of repetition and Henning/Sparano's conservative ways stunting Chad's development to where it's currently deficient in critical areas. They used him as a horse to move the ball between the 20's, so it doesn't surprise me he's more comfortable and successful there..... but when you constantly settle for FGs, rarely attack a defense, and sub in a struggling WC in FG range, it's gotta have some mental recourse on a QB during crunch time. I'd like to know exactly how much time and redzone reps Henne has received the past 2 years (both in practice and games).... and how much was dedicated to the WC etc. I'd also like to see how those numbers compare to say Sam Bradford or Matt Ryan. When we first saw Henne in 2009, he WAS a 4th qtr guy. He DID seem to have that ability and mentality to come from behind.... and he did it like 3 times in 09, including against Brady. We're finally seeing some of that guy re-emerge, the guy we were excited about...... so as the season progresses, I don't see why he won't continue to progress in the areas he's been held back in. IMO it's difficult to expect a guy you just neutered to quickly recover from testicular reattachment, especially in a new offense. That's all I'm saying.
The talk about Luck should be in the background , there is a long way to go before that may be an option. So let's just not consider that , if that decision is there , it isn't a decision. Henne has 13 more games to develop with , I like an awful lot more than what I don't and he can improve and WOULD improve if the leadership of this team was improved , imo.
Considering he's started 0-3, his only good game coming against the NFL's worst defense, with an 82 passer rating and 53 points in 3 games, with only 29 points in the latter two despite Daniel Thomas actually running very well...why does Chad Henne get 13 more games? I've never been a Matt Moore believer but at some point Matt Moore has earned as much right to chances as Chad Henne.
We should be 2-1 right now WITH HENNE if we could only play solid fundamental TEAM football. That's not a monumental talk; great teams do it.... and that's why the Jets can make the AFC Champ game with Sanchez.
Come on. You really believe that? Chad Henne's not being able to get us 10 yards in 4 tries with a timeout in his arsenal is as ridiculous as the short yardage game not being able to get us 1 yard against the Patriots with a 1st & Goal. Both were ridiculous and EMBARRASSING. Difference being I'm willing to call out how embarrassing and ridiculous both were, but because one touches on Chad Henne, some people aren't willing to do the same about both...they just want to call out the short yardage one and that's it.
which is a shame b/c the offense has begun each game with the ability to move the ball. 3 of the first 4 drives today resulted in 10 pts and a Bush fumble in the redzone. First possession vs NE was an 84 yard TD drive.
So what you're saying is she's talented, but b/c she's had little opportunity to use her ability since her initial training, she's not as sharp as she could be? Makes sense to me. Maybe if you let her practice on shooting the target last year, she wouldn't be rusty. My recommendation: keep up the target shooting till she gets her mojo back, b/c apparently she actually HAD IT despite what the recent shot suggested.
Matt Moore isn't the future , guaranteed , you think Henne isn't either , we disagree. Henne gets 13 games for multiple reasons , the easiest one is he is by far the best QB on this team . You want Luck , understood and we all get it , you want to try to improve those chances ,and still not be assured you are going to pick number one? He hasn't been supported to where the 0 and 3 record is his doing for the most part , at all. He may never be the answer but he still has the chance , his improvement warrants more games and Ireland could do worse than work on a contract for him imo.
0-3 start, 73 QBR, new OC, and 36 points with only 13 pts coming in the first game despite a 47 yard rushing TD and 169 total rushing yards. Who's the backup in St Louis again? St Louis Rams new chant. SUCK FOR LUCK... SUCK FOR LUCK.
