POLL about Henne's performance IF he completed 12 yards on the final drive

I'm sorry, but what was the point of this thread again?

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7023314/tony-sparano-tough-spot-miami-dolphins-0-3

I can't believe everyone keeps failing Henne in the 4th quarter. They're all great in Q1-3,but in the 4th, they fail. Henne? No, none of it is his fault. All the fault of others.

 

WE need 60 minutes. Not 59. Every minute before #60 has a minute after it to try and correct any mistakes. That 60th minute doesn't. That's why minute #60 is more important than all 59 before it.

If he can't play that 60th minute well he needs to get the hell out of here. It's the classic Alex Rodriguez symptom. Play well in the regular season choke in the playoffs (until recently). Chad Henne, great between the 20s, then falters. Great until the 4th quarter, then emasculated. Excuse after excuse after excuse, there is always one common denominator. Chad Henne. He has no ... marbles.

 

Can't dismiss not getting it done when it mattered. Thats a pattern for him. He's "Mr.Three Quarters"....Then he's the "Great Houdini" and disappears, or worse.

 

Yet, in the Red Zone and 4th Quarter, he was ineffective.

 

2009 and others were the Wildcat years.

Henne was not orchestrating an offense, so a lot of those points came off the legs of Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown.

 

“Chad Henne in the red zone was not the issue,” Sparano said. “Chad did a really smart thing on one play – threw the ball out of bounds. I can really only point to one red-zone play where I can say we could have done a little something different. But I’d be nitpicking if I did that. He played a pretty good game. He gave us a chance to win the game.”On the Dolphins’ final series – which included three incomplete passes and a Henne interception – Sparano insisted, “Chad went to the right place with the football. He did the right things.”

^^^^^
Tony Sparano, after studying hours of tape on the game.Hundreds of posts on how Henne screwed up in the clutch, the 4th quarter, down the stretch etc. And no one, not one person can name or describe a single play where Henne did something he shouldn't have done or what he should have done instead. I'm just a Rookie here, and not trying to offend anyone. But it's very frustrating and kind of embarrassing to be a member of a fan base as generally ill informed as this one is.

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yes, that counts for everyone. Including Henne. Since he touches the ball everytime on offense his is even more important. He's the first person you examine that isn't getting it done. If he isn't, you get someone that does. Then you move on to the next one. The only person that brings up the rest of the team are Henne defenders. Nobody says nobody else is accountable. They all are. Starting with Henne. Replace his marbeless arse then move on to the next position.

 

Oh yeah we're going to listen to Mr. 0-3? Blame the entire team except Henne but not the guy who is tasked with getting that team prepared and ready? Sparano watches hours and hours of tape but he doesn't do any analyzing. He's just counting plays. He can recite the number of plays of all 53. But that's all he does. He's keeping a box score. Sparano's mistakes have not gotten any better in 3 years it's clear he isn't watching any tape except to count plays.

well here are two.

 

Didn't vote in the poll and not going to, but...seeing how football is the only true team sport there is...

The MIAMI DOLPHINS as a TEAM...performed poorly.

 

Well, if you don't like the poll or the accompanying thread, you are not forced to participate. I think the Dolphins Survivor thread is dumb, for example, so I don't even open it.

 

On those final four plays, did anyone notice a receiver or receivers getting open and Henne just not seeing them? I asked because on the replays they showed, it was like the Browns DC was in our offensive huddle. They had the ideal coverages called and everyone looked blanketed to me. On 4th down as Marshall was coming across the middle, Haden was behind him obviously hanging on to his jersey for a good second or two and the officials all missed or ignored it. On the last play when it was do or die, he threw the ball anyway with no other choice, with the receiver covered and ended up with the pick.

 

I don't see anyone having that mindset. It would have been nice to have given Carpenter a shot, though I'd say it would have been no better than a 1 in 3 chance he would have made it. That he had made two shorter kicks was plus because Carpenter seems to kick better from long range when he has already made some kicks previously. Had he marched out to try a 55 yarder having no previous attempts or no successful tries I'd drop his chances to about 25% of converting.

 

He has played faster and he has improved in some areas. However, the game started to move a little too fast for him on Sunday. Pressure does that to a QB--Tom Brady is no different. There were multiple instances of Henne tucking and going or not sitting in the pocket or being mobile within the pocket. I don't fault him for that, but again, it's the difference between the great one's and the good one's. And although Chad has improved his athleticism and pocket awareness to a degree, it's still not at the level of propelling himself to a great status. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning are amazing at manipulating the pocket.

 

I think taking limited data from a set of full statistics really skews an argument. That's some of my issues with statistics because you can use the things you want to form your opinion.

I did answer the question. he was playing well. He was playing well on 3rd down, he created a few big plays, but A's has always been the case, failing to get the team I to the end zone. Were all of those things his fault? Absolutely not. But, it's a measuring stick for QB's.

 

But with the game on the line, what did Ben do? He lead his team to a GW FG. And that's the difference between a player like Ben and Chad. Truth is, Ben probably makes a helluva lot more mistakes, costs his team more negative plays, yet...he still does wonders on 3rd down, scores TDs, takes advantage of having the ball last---thrives on it actually.

Colt McCoy did the same thing. Really stunk, missed opportunities, had no real threat of a running game, yet took it down for a TD. Even in the midst of one of Henne's best games, he still failed in the last moments.

 

Ahh, the constant QB debate. Will it ever end? I'm beginning to think the answer is no.

For the haters, the OP is simply asking how you think his performance was for THIS game had we got the 12 yards and made the FG. He's not asking if you think Henne will be a franchise QB. Looking at his numbers and how he played, to say this performance is anything but very good would be using your bias. It's not outstanding b/c he had chances in the RZ (again) and failed.

For the supporters, Henne DID NOT get the 12 yards so the point is mute (this is where I understand the haters). Who cares what his rating would be if he got the 12 yards, in REAL LIFE, he simply did not get the yards. He did not make the play needed.

While in the end, I really like Henne's tools and how he has progressed from last year to this year, I'm believing more and more that he just can't be the leader needed to take over a game. We see it consistently from other young QBs around the league (i.e. Freeman, Mccoy, etc.), they just have the moxy and know they will march down the field and win the game for their team. I don't see it in Chad. Is this a developed trait? Maybe. Maybe he gets some confidence after executing a game winning drive this year and carries that through from game to game, but right now I just don't see it.

Not to mention, I don't see the coaching "killer instinct" which obviously doesn't help Chad's confidence. Tony has alot of passion, that's obvious, his players love him, that's obvious, I'm just not sure he has the right tools to be a successful NFL coach. Things will change on this front (potentially as early as next week), so hopefully this will be the final major shake-up in the FO for 10+ yrs. We need to get back to winning football games. I'm just sick of it.

 

My argument is different. Chad Henne isn't the reason the Dolphins lost. However, he is one of the reasons the Dolphins didn't win. He had a chance at the end of the game to pick his team ip and he failed to do that.

 

what I am getting out of Todds point is that just like Romo's situation, do you think what he did in that moment in the jet game is indicitive of who he is?, or do you think its just a bad play in the course of a game?, just so happens to be at the wrong time of the game..I mean, he comes back the next game last nite and drives his team down the field to win it..So,do we wanna give up on a QB who played a very good game because he had 1 or 2 bad thows, when every good or great QB's have those throws in games.

 

defensive indictment..not Henne.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Henne's defense seems to breathe "what ifs" like the rest of us breathe air.

I'm tire of a "What if?" quarterback.

I would like a "Remember when?" quarterback.

 

Remember when we had TE options?

Remember when we had that option for the QB?

Remember when we had a line that could semi pass protect with no third T ?

Remember when we had seperation?

Remember when we had defensive pressure?

Chad Henne HAS NOT been perfect , he is not the main or one of the main reasons we have played as poorly as we have.

The thing is , I see him both being able to be better and being better, I can't say the same for a lot of other areas , including coaching and management.

 

What if Marino had ever had a legit run game? What if he'd had a great defense? What I he hadn't blown his Achilles when he had those things? See, even the greats have "what it's"...

 

Its the mentality that only great QBs win these days. The last eight AFC champions have been QB'd by:

Brady
Brady
Roethlisberger
Manning
Brady
Roethlisberger
Manning
Roethlisberger

I would say its even more rare finding a team built perfectly around an average QB than a team with a great QB.

All of those past 8 AFC champions had issues other than QB, but their QBs were good enough to overcome those.

Now I'm not suggesting Chad Henne be benched or released, but I have little to no faith that he could ever win the AFC or a Super Bowl. Thus, finding a QB that can win the AFC is the #1 priority for me.

 

Henne's 4th Quarter: 2-of-7 for 17 yards, one sack, no first downs. Also, his last two plays of the third quarter were an incompletion and a sack.

Shall we start another poll do decide how great he was in the first 3 quarters!??!!?

 

Not just the end of football games, but to widen the umbrella, we "DISAPPROVE OF HENNE BECAUSE OF HIS SHORTCOMINGS IN CRITICAL MOMENTS IN FOOTBALL GAMES" Third downs, redzone, and end of games.

 

You must use the word "IF" because he obviously DIDN'T.

 

Wait...so the entire point of this thread was about attempting to spring a trap on everyone's line of reasoning that it would have taken a "very good" performance by the QB to win the game?

Really?

That's funny. I personally think it takes a "very good" performance by the QB to win most games in the National Football League. It's hard to win in this league with your QB only performing "average" or even "good".

Funny thing about polls and percentages and whatnot. You say 64% think it would have taken a "very good to nearly elite" performance by Henne to win this game. I say 64% think it would have taken only "an average to very good" performance by Henne to win this game. Which one of us is wrong?

Hint: Neither.

But it's interesting how you've drawn up the poll. You have 6 options, the very worst of which is "average". The mid-point of the 6 options is above Option 4 for "very good" and yet the label of Option 3 is "very good to outstanding".

Seems like a nice way to set up a poll in order to get the results you hope for. Yet, despite the lopsided structure of the poll, we have perfectly symmetrical results focused on Option 4 for "very good". 21 people voted above "very good" and 21 people voted below "very good"...even though the poll was clearly designed to get more people voting above "very good" than below. Interesting.

 

Remember when Henne hit our TE in both hands and he popped it up for a INT and it was still Henne's fault? First preseason game this year against Atlanta.