I've joked about it, but deep down I'd love to know what Miami's coat would be to get him (draft compensation, money, and title). It's a pipe dream, but it's interesting. Stringer makes a great point and I've been harping on it. While Gannon didn't have the longevity, he was a top tiered QB that year.
Rich Gannon didn't come into his own for 12 years. How long are we going to wait and keep this billion dollar franchise on hold? Henne is in his 4th year and he may, or may NOT, get better. You don't wait. You grab a new guy. You grab a new guy until you find a keeper. If you end up with 2, hey, is that such a bad problem? EDIT: This comment is addressing adam's post.
Opinions vary for sure, but those were all legitimate opportunities to get QB's that are debatably better than Henne.
I am NOT saying Henne has been or is a great QB. I do think he has improved tremendously this year. Actually, I do think Henne has been one of the best if not the best Dolphin on the field this year. So I was honestly wondering "who" were the QBs this regime has missed that would have solved our QB dilemma from the fans that complain Henne sucks and the Ireland/Sparano need to go b/c we are stuck with Henne. I just don't see them anyone out there where I say Ireland/Sparano really blew it b/c they "should have" taken this guy.
I see Henne having gotten much better from last year...you don't? Fitzpatrick 4th year in the league had a 70 QB rating...8 TD 9 Int.
Sure but that's like saying my poop stinks less today than yesterday. We're 27th in scoring despite being ranked 7th in rushing and 14th or so in total yards. That is impotent.
Says their defense is better than ours? I mean hey lets forget there was a defense on teh field. I have actually heard Marshall ran the wrong route on that Int and Chad was throwing where he thought he would be, this was on teh torretta and then Irvin shows (that few minutes when Gino is going and Irvin is coming) they talked about it. They brought up a bigger issue and it is actually the biggest issue from last year, trust and respect. Henne has done a much better job at communicating with Marshall but they actually said that Henne is not allowed to confront Marshall or get after him after wrong routes etc and that if teh qb cannot be above that and allowed to take charge that he cant get teh full respect. That is a huge issue, and one I had thought was put to bed. But it comes down to Henne needs to make that play. it is also true expectations need to be consistent for every player. if you have those expectations from Henne, yiou expect that from marshall. You expect the td catch and you call him on it. You dont excuse it because he made other plays. You dont excuse our defense for giving up an 80 yd td drive because they played well before that. Aqua is right henne is looked at diff if he makes that play, if he makes more of those and corrects red zone issues who knows what happens after year end. But what if he does start making those? do we say he has shown growth? As a team if know Henne isnt the elite qb that will pick the offense up and carry us to a win, who steps up to make something happen? Or as a team do we quit? What does it say about teh character of teh guys we have if they quit? If you believe Henne is avg at best and you are a teammate, and you are an elite receiver, dont you take it upon yourself to make sure you catch teh 2 tds you dropped in the endzone, knowing it is up to you? n Dont you as a defense fight tear and claw to keep that team out of the endzone? If you are a team that says my qb isnt good enough so I dont have to fight and it is ok if I drop crucial balls because I made others and it isnt my fault we lost so it is ok. It isnt my fault the opposing team drove down teh field to score and win or run it down our throats and control the ball for over 5 min with 8 left atthe start. Those arent teh players I want. That is my argument, henne is playing very much improved. But he isnt eliet and isnt showing that he can be. he isnt showing that he can will us over that hump and make it happen. But the team as whole isnt putting him in great situations when you factor in what he has shown or is believed to have the ability to do. If going in you dont think he is great then dont expect greatness. Dont say Henne isnt the answer and then judge hi based that criteria while excusing those who is believed to be great. Great players make great plays, when great plays are needed. Judging someone who is perceived great based on criteria used for every player at that position is wrong IMO. IMO Marshall dropping 2 tds and possibly running wrong routes is as concerning and damming as henne not getting it done in that series. or teh defense giving up plays when it cant afford to. Get an eliet qb at any chance you can . We didnt have a shot this past offseason, going into 10 season, noone thought henne was a bust. This offseason there will be no excuse. Henne's bed will be made and the decision will be easy
Their defense is better than ours. IN essence, their defense is better than Henne. Or is it more likely that Henne who posts a sub-50 4th quarter QBR sucks in the 4th quarter?
Have at it. Go back and dig them up if you want to really know. You can't expect anyone else to do it for you.
Yeah and if the rabbit hadn't stopped to take a ****, the dog wouldn't have caught it. The point is the Henne had the chance to put the team on his shoulders with a chance to win but he didn't.
I see. The truth was revealed and it was decided to hide it in the draft threads and is NOW being kept a secret. People can find out but they must prove their worthiness by spending hours on end digging through old draft threads b/c posters are sworn to never again reveal who those QBs were that Ireland and Sparano made a mistake on by passing them up. Thank you for clearing this up. I will probably spend my next week of vacation digging through old threads so I can find the answer. This was very helpful...
In fairness, the QB rating is largely reflective of Henne throwing 2 picks in situations which he forced the ball due to circumstances. Otherwise QB rating jumps to 71.9 which is still not good, but not as bad as the 48.7 he has. Stats are only valid in understanding the context in which they are put up. Not saying Henne has been good in the 4th by any means. I see a total team letdown in those situations. His big-play WR has not been stepping up. Marshall has 5 catches on 11 targets, 0 TD in the 4th quarter...If Marshall's numbers were put into the QB formula in the 4th quarter he would have a rating of 29.7! Truly has been a team effort. Final drive on Sunday the WRs were covered like Velcro. If Gates was physical enough to stay in the field of play chances are Miami wins. I can think of so many WRs that come down with a catch on that throw. Unfortunately, Gates is not physically strong enough to be one of them.
But he did need to and he didnt deliver and looked quite lost while doing it. He had a nice game up to that point but he had a chance to shut up his doubters
Henne shouldn't have made that throw. That is a pick with a ball hungry DB. We can blame Gates for not getting open, but I'm going to also blame Henne for throwing it to him in the first place. I watched the replay last night. Gates never had a step. Before Henne releases the ball the DB is on Gates. Bess was open on the next play but Henne threw it behind. Bess ran a great route and the db played off before bess made a cut. That said, rushers were closing in on Henne. He could have made a better throw, but it it was more difficult because of the pass rush. He flat out missed a wide open Marshall on the last INT. He threw it ahead and way way above Marshall.
It says his coach, the play's called, and the team as a whole didn't get it done. I have seen Marino, Montana, Elway, and Farve fail in the same situation. Henne isn't perfect. But he's is a whole lot better now than he was before, and he's a whole lot better than some of the other QB's drafted after our picks in the draft, and a good many before. Your schtick is getting old. repetitive, and boring. There are 10 other guys on the offense on the field with him, and 11 guys on defense who have something to do with the game too. You do know that, don't you. OH. one other point. If Henne has improved as much as he has this year under this regime, consider what he could do with a real QB coach and a head coach with some ..... err.... manhood.
yeah so every 22 starting players on each team is beyond reproach. Please. You've seen Marino, Montana etc. fail in that situation. You have also seen them succeed in that situation. A lot. I'm just trying to wait for a season Henne doesn't throw more INT's than TDs. He's better than before. Ok. That sub-50 Fourth Quarter QBR is so much improved from last year. But that isn't his fault. It's the other 10 guys on the field. Over, and over and over again. Lack of running Game. Dan Henning. Wide receivers. Every excuse in the book. We've addressed those 3 above. What's the common denominator? Henne still sucks in the 4th quarter. They put the ball in his hands. He got 4 straight passes. Not 2 rushes and a pass. 4 straight passes. and he blew it. He missed a wide open Bess and a wide open Marshall. But it's not his fault
If you really want a fair comparison, imagine a QB with a 73-75 rating (at best) in the pre-2004 QB era. That's what Chad Henne is. He's basically on the level of a NFL Jay Fiedler, Elvis Grbac, guys of that order. That's nothing impressive.
And Mark Sanchez took his team to the AFC title game two years in a row. Once again, the media has put in everyone's heads that the QB is the only reason a team will win games. The Jets and Falcons have had better teams overall. Too early to say that Sanchez is better than Henne or Ryan is heads and shoulders better than Henne. It's a team game and you need 21 other guys to contribute.
Last 8 AFC champions have been QB'd by Brady, Roethlisberger, and Manning. Mark Sanchez has never won the AFC.
Then again Brady went down in 08 and Cassel comes in and goes 11-5 with no starting experience in college or in the NFL. Seems like the Patriots have a pretty good team. Last year the Pittsburgh Steelers went 3-1 without Roethlisburger including wins over Atlanta and TB. Only loss was to the Ravens by 3 points. Steelers have a worse record when Polamalu is out than when Ben is. As for Manning, he just may be that damn good! Although team looked good against the Pitt the QBing is so bad between Collins and Painter (missed a wide open WR for perhaps the winning score).
I want us to draft a 1st round QB if a good one is available, not because I think Henne is a bust, but I feel we must make QB a top priority rather than an afterthought. I truly believe QB is the most important position and needs to be directly addressed until Henne succeeds or we draft one that beats him out. The best possible scenario is Henne finally proves he is a definite franchise QB and we draft another QB and he proves to be very good also. Then we're in a similar situation as San Diego was, we just don't let either QB walk without compensation. I am curious what people would be saying if we had picked up Cassel from New England and he would have ended up playing in Miami as he is now playing in Kansas City?
Yay, another Henne thread. Last year everyone was saying about Chad Henne, what if he's another Brees, a guy that comes into his own in his 4th year? This year now everyone is going to say about Chad Henne, what if he's another Eli Manning, a guy that comes into his own in his 5th year? And then they'll be saying what if he's another Ryan Fitzpatrick, a guy that comes into his own in his 6th and 7th years? And then they'll be saying what if he's another Rich Gannon, a guy that comes into his own in his 12th year? Can't wait!
I give you props on your projections of the team and its coach, but not about your projection of this QB, he has played much better relative to your level of criticism this offseason.. and he's doing it without good pass protection.
The same Drew Brees who started his fourth year 1-2 with 3 TD's and 2 INT's? That's remarkably similar to a certain QB I know of.
I was all optimistic when the season started. By the end of the first half against the Patriots on Monday Night, I said to myself "We need Luck."
I said multiple times before the season started that until/unless the entire team implodes, turns on Tony Sparano, etc...I expect Chad Henne throwing to these receivers to have the best year he's had as a pro. So it's really a stretch for DJ to say that I was clearly wrong on Chad Henne. Henne has an 82 passer rating on an 0-3 record, in an offense that has scored like 17 or 18 points a game, including less than 15 points a game the last two weeks even with Daniel Thomas running well. I never said that Chad Henne wouldn't show marked improvement. In fact, I predicted it straight up. I said that it wouldn't be enough, and that he probably never will be enough to build a franchise around. Yet I was somehow clearly proven wrong. (/eyeroll)
I get it. QB's are very important and when you have a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, they can compensate for other issues among the team and still win Super Bowls. My point is that these guys have been put on such a high pedastal and I would go as far to say that the coaches should be moved to that pedastal. The QB's still need players around them. The coaches have the ability to get more out of players than others. Look at the coaching lineage for the recent Super Bowl teams. Bellichek Cowher Dungy Payton McCarthy Tomlin That's a pretty strong list and yes they have all had superstar QB's but they have also gotten alot out of the remaining players on their teams. Considering these QB's are making boat loads of money, it limits what these teams can do from a FA perspective. It limits how much they can resign their own players for. Therefore they have to get more out of some of their other lower tier players than what a normal coach could. And they do. My frustration is solely around how the NFL has been transformed (primarily by the media) into a league where ONLY QB's make a difference in a game. It's just not true. Do you think the Steelers win the SuperBowl with a mediocre defense? Do you think Peyton Manning wins a SuperBowl without Freeney, Mathis, Wayne, Clark, and Harrison? Do you think Brady wins without the VERY good defenses of the mid 2000's? How about Rodgers without Matthews, Woodson, Tramon Williams, Raji, Jenkins, Hawk? How about Drew Brees without Greg Williams coaching that defense? This is a team game, we need to stop letting the media brainwash everyone.
Total QBR would indicate Ryan isn't as good as Henne has been this year. Of course, this no longer has legitimacy now that Ryan is at #24 and Henne at #12. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7020881/nfl-week-3-total-qbr-season-leaders
So it's settled if we can get an upgrade over our 30th best HC in the league we do it.----> perfect If we can get an upgrade over our 15th-20th best QB---> we do it----> perfect Is there much else to it?
I think the point is that you don't change QBs once the season starts unless you have to. Once it was determined that this regime was going to live and die by Henne, it no longer matters now. This season is Henne, period. There is no sense in fretting about who we could have gotten, nor is there any sense in worrying about who will be the next guy, right now. It's not a matter of who you want now, but who else is available. At this point, Henne is who we have.
He hasn't even started the year well and he's still completed more passes into the endzone. He threw four TDs against Philly and Mike Vick's return to Atlanta which was huge.
btw...I never said Henne was as good as Ryan. What I have said is Ryan is overrated and imo there is no way given the talent Miami has or should say has not had on offense Ryan would have done any better than Henne has the past couple of years. Ryan does NOT have the arm that can carry a franchise. He needs talent around him. Could you imagine putting Brady or Manning or Rodgers or any of the top QBs with Turner at RB, White at WR (and now Jones) and Gonzalez at TE. They sure as heck would not be averaging the 6.49 YPA (tied with Sanchez for 26th) last year. Imo Ryan is another Pennington only he isn't anywhere close to being as accurate. Does that mean he is bad? No...he is what he is, but he is no savior imo. He can't throw the deep ball worth a ****. Since the beginning of last year Ryan is 10 or 49 on passes 20+ yards. Henne is 14 for 51 and one of the knocks on Henne is he hasn't thrown the deep ball with accuracy which I think has been fair to say. My criticism of Ryan have been to multitude of fans that say if we only drafted Ryan, blah...blah...blah. My response is B.S., he isn't that type of QB. Good QB if he has talent around him, but can't take a bad team and make them good...needs help.
Yay, another response without a solution. The turnstile approach at QB the Dolphins have tried every since Marino retired has really worked well and produced great results. What has this revolving QB approach resulted in? 6 losing seasons out 7, following a period of only having 2 losing seasons out of 34 with consistency at QB. We started with Fielder and then have tried Huard, Lucas, Griese, Rosenfels, Feeley, Frerotte, Lemon, Culpepper, Harrington, Beck, Green, Pennington, Henne and even gave Thigpen a shot. I didn't start this thread saying Henne is the greatest...blah, blah, blah. I started in response to all the posters that keep saying Henne sucks, Ireland and Sparano should be fired for not getting us a better QB than Henne. My question was "who" are the QBs Ireland/Sparano blew it by not getting? Of course, there are the group that thinks Ryan is the **** and would have been the savior. Maybe, but probably not. Who are the others? No one can seem to come up with an answer to that question. Only revert back to Henne sucks, get rid of him. Back to the revolving door approach...YEAH. So now we have a QB that has shown improvement on the field of play this year and the call is still we just need to get rid of him. Again, with who? I am sure Ireland/Sparano have never been opposed to get an elite QB, but the reality is that option has just NOT been available up to this point. So that is the reality and as a Dolphin fan I deal with it and hope Henne continues his improvement.
