Dan Dierdorf quote about REDZONE scoring

What do you guys think ofDierdorf's analysis? Do you feel he is on the money with how he sees the game nowadays?

 

Sure. I mean, he's not an smarta$$ llike Tony Kornheiser...nor looking into a crystal ball telling eveyone what certain players and coaches are thinking/saying to one another like Joe Theismann did.

I think he gives good analysis.

 

Just wondering how Moore looked the rest of the game?

 

Moore is a career backup QB for a reason, Greyson.

bad QB to bad QB. At least Moore was out there trying to make big plays, even if he does lack the arm strength to zip the ball.

 

Dierdorf has clearly put forth an argument that we can evaluate in order to find out if there is truth in it or not. Instead people focus on the person making the argument instead the actual argument (this is known as Ad Hominem). This leads people down the wrong path and doesn't get them any closer to the truth of the topic that being discussed.

It doesn't matter if Dan is an "authority" or not. The truth is the truth regardless if it is said by a 5 year old girl or a 90 year old philosopher. The argument is what matters not the person making it, at least for a vast majority of the time. There are circumstance where it is completely valid to "attack the man" but that normally comes down to when the argument it's self is based on the man.

Three things that would do people a lot of good is studying Ad Hominem, Appeal to Authority, and just the Informal Fallacies in general.


With that out of the way let's get the argument put forth. As the offense gets closer to the goal line the field shrinks vertically. So you have more defenders around the line of scrimmage and they have less space they are required to defend. You can A) stretch the field horizontally w/ 5 wide for example B) overpower them man-on-man C) do some combination of both.

I think having a strong Oline is definitely one way to be a great redzone team ( and a great 3rd & short as well ) because you can knock the defense off the ball and get those tough yards.

So I think it's a valid point by Dan. That doesn't absolve Henne of the blame, but most importantly it's a part of why we, as a team, are losing.

I think personnel decisions are a part of this equation as well. We did cut Polite and didn't sign a replacement to my knowledge. My concern with Hilliard at FB is he doesn't dominate or overpower LBs in the hole. He can stalemate them and that might work when you can spread the defense out vertically or horizontally, but when it's time to go man-on-man in a tight space you have to push the defender back and off the ball. Can Lex do that? It's an honest question. I don't know the answer.

I think the blame does fall squarely on the Oline though and not Lex.

 

Just to clarify I don't think many on this board who bash Henne feel that Matt Moore was going to be an upgrade over Henne. That is why there was such an outrage at the failure to bring a serious competitor to Henne in the offseason. So Moore playing poorly doesn't mean that Chad Henne isn't part of the problem. We need a better QB in my opinion ( aka not Moore or Henne ).

Ultimately the it's the failure of the combination of the GM and the Coaching staff to put together a team. Either the GM isn't getting the coaching staff the proper players to fit the scheme the Offense and Defense coaches want to run. Or the coaches cant get these guys to execute their assignments, do a bad job of gameplanning, etc.

I think it's both. The fact that we have same problems two years in a row on the Oline is starting to make me think the GM has a serious role in this continued piss poor play, and I hope they both see the door at the end of the year.

 

I consider the message more than the messenger. Players are just as capable of stupidity as fans. And I would say that there are posters on this board who know more about football than many ex-players so there's no way I would automatically respect the player's opinion more.

 

I never felt any outrage about that b/c I thought "competition" fans were clamoring for was over rated and/or over priced. I don't think we're any worse off with Moore than we would have been with the other options that were out there. I never felt Moore was the answer, I just felt he was about as good as the other bigger name options. I looked at what was out there and felt that regardless we would have to draft a QB high next draft so my priority was making sure we kept as many resources (picks and cap space) to trade up if we needed to.

 

I tend to agree. I felt like a lot of the QB's available were not markedly better than Henne. Especially if you figured in the cost to acquire them.

 

The NFL is a lot different since Goodell took over. Its clear that their goal is to make this a QB dominated league.

 

Lets hire Terry Bradshaw to be our new coach.

Sean Salisbury as our OC.

Matt Millen as our GM. after all he was a GM and laid the groundwork for this excellent Lions team. And is also an analyst.

Joe Theisman. Can't we fit him in somewhere?

 

That's a bit of cherry picking TDK. A lot of those mediocre names you just listed lost to a team with an Elite QB. Of course it's a team game. That's why Dan only made one super bowl, never won any.

But think about it. An elite QB is just one position. Hit that right,and it makes it that much easier for the rest of the team.

On your list, how many won? Dilfer, Johnson, Williams, McMahon? Those are some stellar defenses they had. Then again, that's 11 or more players that have to execute. An elite QB instantly makes your team better.

Who are the top 5-7 QBs and how many playoff appearances do they have in recent years. It's not a coincidence. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers. How many playoff and superbowls among them? Can they win it all by themselves? Nope. But they give the rest of the team a larger margin of error.

 

Matt Cassell went 11-5 with the Pats a couple years ago, still he's not elite.

Travis, I'd listen to a lot of ex-players before I'd listen to CK. We have several great posters on here also, Pads, Todd, KB, TDK, Con just to name a few.

 

Travis, if you want to talk about posters on here, pm me. I'm not going to talk about other posters in the forums.

 

I think you're selling Dierdorf short. I don't like him much b/c he's a company guy, he's constantly over praising star players and he's never seen a bad call from a Ref. But I'd stop short of saying he doesn't know the game as well as some guys on a forum.

Number 1, he's a broadcaster. He has no choice but to dumb down his analysis b/c 99% of his viewers are casual fans watching the game for entertainment, so the football junkies who make up the other 1% have to suffer. Or watch games with the volume off like I normally do.

Number two, the guys you mention have the benefit of watching tape several times, taking notes and then putting their thoughts on paper. Dierdorf is on national TV watching a game live, with just a few seconds to grasp and articulate what's happening on the field in a way that the average fan can understand, digest, and find entertaining. You can call him clueless all you want but IMO you're out in left field somewhere on this one.

No offense.

 

It's not. And I am not suck for luck or anything similar. If it happens, ok, we suck, but now we have luck. Fine. After week 16 if that is what it is, than it is what it is.

 

Pretty much this.

I have no problem with ending up with the #1 pick. You'll end up with a great QB.

But if anyone in the organization isn't doing everything they can to win every week, then that is just embarrassing. Great QBs are found everywhere in the first round. To essentially cheat because you only believe you're good enough to identify one with the #1 pick would be extremely cowardly to me.

 

I've been adamant that I can't root for my team to lose and that I couldn't try to lose on purpose. But the reality is that people are people and if there are those here that are willing to tank the season for a high pick then odds are there are people thinking the exact same thing within the organization. And not just this organization, but on any team.

 

Sure, and those are the organizations that are not winners. I would be willing to bet that the Steelers, Patriots, Giants, Ravens, etc. all believe they don't need to tank a season to put a good team on the field. They can put out a good team because they can actually build a good team.

 

Sounds to me that your stance is sitting behind a keyboard with a remote control switching channels is the source of authority. Please tell me that you have done more than watch football.

Most of the people who place all of the blame on Henne have been doing it for only one real reason. He is not Dan. God help him and protect him. He cannot play like Dan.

By the way, do you remember what happened to Dan when he had an OC and a HC who tried to reel him in, did not let him play the way he knew how to play, and didn't pat attention to some basic tenets of the game (such is that your opponents are calling out the plays for you as soon as the audible is called). Does any of this sound familiar to you? Most of us who have supported continuing to try to groom the young QB know that he is not without fault, but he is not THE FAULT!


IT would seem to me that most of you who hate the fact that we have to type his name on a message board would blame him for everything from the collapse of the team to the predicted by the Mayan calender coming apocalypse of 2012 to the fact that the Kardashians have a television show.

You know... Believe it or not... I once saw Dan Marino miss a pass.
I once saw Larry Csonka tackled for a loss.
I once saw Zach Thomas miss a tackle.
And we all watched Paul Lankford get burnt so much he had a personal assistant carrying around a fire extinguisher on the sidelines.
I once saw Troy Stradford run for over 250 yards in a game, and never was heard from again.

This whole cavalcade of problems had their origin in the hiring of a big name coach - Jimmy Johnson. And it has gone down the poop chute ever since. A lot of us saw it coming then, and tried to say something, but were shouted down by the board experts of that day (about 15 years ago now!) This franchise has not had a competent front office in almost two decades, and a good number have been waiting for it to happen. So, it is not ALL Henne's fault. It never has been, and never will be. But,he will be the butt of most of the criticism because he has tried to play quarterback in the NFL for the Miami Dolphins. Anyone on this board want to claim that on your resume?

Thought NOT!
TTFN!

 

People are people so I have no doubt that if any of those teams were losing that there would be some people on those teams thinking exactly like some fans here are.