1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why Jeff Ireland is just as responsible for this mess as Tony Sparano.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    Jeff Ireland has had 4 years to build this team. It was a passing league when he got the job, and it's even more of a passing league today.

    In those 4 years, he has completely failed at addressing the most important position on the football field, that being quarterback. Unless you count signing Pennington as he dropped into their lap a success. I know this will turn into another Chad Henne **** throwing fight, but he has not proven to be the answer. I know his season isn't over yet, and there is still time for him to show us something. The fact remains though, that they had 3 years to evaluate Henne and had to know there was a better than average chance he might not get it done this year either. To assume the light would suddenly go on and that this team could win with Henne was at best irresponsible and at worse complete arrogance and refusal to admit a mistake.

    And when you trade up to take a running back in the draft, instead of bringing in legitimate young competition for Chad Henne and a viable option for the future should Chad fail it shows further ignorance. Meanwhile, your division rival, realizing the importance of the position drafts Ryan Mallet a few picks later while having one of best quarterbacks of all time already on the roster.

    Then flip it over to defense and look at the play and talent evaluation and selection of our safeties during Jeff Ireland's tenure. Another complete failure. The best option we have was already on roster when he arrived and everyone else at the position has been a total embarrassment. A complete failure at one of the most important areas in defending the pass.

    So in 4 years we can't pass the ball and we can't stop the pass. That's a complete failure in this league. Failures that cannot be excused by a few good picks at other positions. Then you factor in the failures in free agency, and the laziness of mining the Dallas Pipeline for overly ripe to flat our rotten rejects, and you have a General Manager who is as big a liability as our head coach.

    And a general manager that seems to be hated by the players and has also been a public embarrassment at times.

    To end the Parcells era for good, Ireland has to go too. I hope Ross realizes this, but I fear Ireland might worm tongue his way into keeping the job and that might keep us from getting a quality head coach in here.
     
  2. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Ireland is in fact just as responsible for the state of the team although I disagree with almost your entire argument going into focusing on what he's done at QB.

    There are PLENTY of other aspects of the team he's failed to impact that have hurt us.

    The whole crew needs to go at this point.
     
  3. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    I mentioned safety too. I agree that there are other areas. I'm just focusing on the areas of passing and stopping the pass.
     
  4. Phyl

    Phyl New Member

    654
    144
    0
    Dec 26, 2010
    I think he's the best GM in the league at asking a potential draft pick if his mother is a prostitute. That's one thing he can always hang his hat on.
     
  5. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    If Ireland is just as much to blame than why did we have bigger hopes for the season? Why are we "disappointed" to be in the situation we are in?

    We had bigger hopes and are upset with our current record because Ireland improved the talent of this team and roster. Our play isn't matching our talent however and thats coaching...
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Because, we're fans. We hope for the best. It's what we do. There was a lot of hope going around before the 2007 season, too. Same with the 2004 season, there was a lot of hope centering on A.J. Feeley and how he'd be "the" guy and we'd win a lot of games with this defense and a decent offense led by a good QB.
     
    GreysonWinfield likes this.
  7. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

    18,425
    6,346
    113
    Dec 5, 2007
    clearwater, fl
    if a player told me his dad was a pimp and that his mom worked for him, i would ask him that too
     
    Fin D likes this.
  8. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    There were several who thought that many of the moves were not actual upgrades. And some of us realized that 0-4 was a very real possibility.
     
    ssmiami and Coral Reefer like this.
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Ireland is one of the worst GM's in the entire league. He has done an absolutely terrible job of upgrading the talent on the roster. His 2010 draft class may be rated the worst class of the entire draft. If Ross fires Sparano and keeps Ireland. The Dolphins will continue to be one of the worst organizations in the NFL.
     
  10. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

    3,123
    2,247
    113
    Mar 24, 2008
    ''

    Yup..hope makes you say crazy stuff. I remember when Ricky "retired"..I thought "awesome, now we can really see what Travis Minor can do!"

    so much for my talent evaluation...
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Hah. Exactly. And you weren't alone. In fact I remember Ricky explained one time in his blog that part of the reason he timed it the way he did was so that the Dolphins would have very little choice but to give Travis Minor a legit chance, because he felt Travis was 'special' and he just needed a break, something to that effect.
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    You need to go look through other teams drafts in the same time period because that comment is pretty much indefensible. Jeff Ireland is well above average as a GM. Pick a team. Do a pick by pick analysis and get back to me:

    http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...-Falcons-drafts-in-retrospect-2008-to-Present
     
  13. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Disagree.

    Many were pointing out problems on OL, RB, pass rusher, safety, and other areas as well had chatter like #2 WR, TE, CB depth.
    Not to mention the raging debate with the QB position which I won't get into either way.
    Those that seem to think we have a complete team are absolutely kidding themselves.
     
    MonstBlitz likes this.
  14. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

    3,123
    2,247
    113
    Mar 24, 2008
    Yeah I think he said they'll be better off because Travis is faster anyway.
    And I thought Brian Griese was going to be awesome here...and AJ Feeley..and Dante Culpepper..and..well you get it :)
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  15. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Barring sour grapes, I don't see why this would turn into yet another Henne-bashing thread. Henne was a 2nd round pick, and he is what he is. I think he'll turn into a good NFL QB, but he'll never be confused with Dan Marino. However, he was a good pick at QB when we were a team that was focused on running the ball and playing sound defense.

    It just so happens that we are now going in a different direction on offense, and I don't think Henne is the guy to get us there. I'm not a huge fan of Jeff Ireland, but I can hardly say we missed out on the next Peyton Manning in this last draft. Although... I still think Ireland should be let go with Sparano.

    However, we better get a good QB in this next draft. There are some 'bad' teams that already have their franchise guy, so, the opportunity to land someone special will likely be there for the Phins, IMHO.
     
  16. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

    6,359
    1,671
    0
    Mar 23, 2008
    Los Angeles
    You know there's actually a strong chance that if a guy like Zimmer or Fisher becomes HC, Ireland stays. Jeff Ireland could easily heal many average Dolfans minds by drafting Luck which he would likely do. He fits that Ponder/Locker mold of a mobile tough QB.
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    If you actually had bigger hopes for this season, you obviously bought into the hype generated by the Dolphin organization before the season. You didn't listen to the media, who told you that the Dolphins were not going to be a very good team this season. Unfortunately fans cheer with their hearts and seldom see things clearly with their heads. As a long time Dolphin fan, (since 1966), I never expected this group of players and coaches to win more than 4-5 games this season. The coaching is terrible and the overall talent on the team is well below average . Take bad coaching and subpar talent and you get a team which is 0-4 right now. Your assumption that Ireland improved the talent on the team is wrong. The fact is that the Dolphins are 0-4 , not only because of bad coaching, but because Ireland has done a terrible job in providing this team with talented players.
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    Above average GMs don't place such little emphasis on the QB position.
     
    gafinfan likes this.
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    They didn't in any sense place little emphasis on the QB position. Chad Henne was a reasonable pick, and they did their due diligence with him.

    That's not going to end, either. There's a pretty good chance that Chad Henne ends up being our starting QB in 2012. Do you think Jon Gruden, whom is most comfortable with veteran quarterbacks, who took guys like Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson and turned them into quality players is going to shy away from someone younger and more talented?
     
  20. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

    6,359
    1,671
    0
    Mar 23, 2008
    Los Angeles
    That would require Miami resigning him and perhaps paying him decent money. If he starts for a year it's possible but if he knows there is a high draft pick, then there's a serious problem. Henne will not want Andrew Luck behind him. Heck he didn't want Tebow behind him.
     
  21. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

    2,593
    2,335
    113
    Jan 4, 2009
    Savannah, GA
    Is a coach only as good as the players he has, or are the players only as good as they are coached?

    There have been some huge errors in talent made by Ireland. However, he isn't out there coaching the players or making the decisions during the games. He put the players out there for Tony to coach up...to do what coaches are supposed to do. Sparano has failed there. I can't put all the blame on Ireland in that case.

    However, I think if Tony goes...He goes. They are a package deal.

    Whether it is Cowher, who would be his own GM, or someone else and Carl Peterson comes in....there will be a whole new regime in place.
     
  22. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Which is precisely why - contrary to popular fan opinion - acquiring decent talent in the draft does not make you a good or successful GM a priori.
     
    Coral Reefer likes this.
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I'm actually afraid of that though. As long as Ireland is here there is no accountability for the BAD personnel decisions that he makes. Specifically, his pro personnel decisions have been flat out awful. While some people can pretend that drafting is all that matters (and he's really only been a mediocre drafter), the fact that he can't acquire pro personnel that don't end up vastly overrated, not worth the money, injury prone, and/or just outright terrible...shows that he should NOT be this team's General Manager, even if they do acquire Andrew Luck.
     
    MonstBlitz, gafinfan and Coral Reefer like this.
  24. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Perhaps you need to review the 2010 draft and see exactly how badly Ireland screwed up.
    First round- Odrick- Having trouble getting on the field and when he does, he hasn't done much. Absolutely no pass rush from him.
    Second round- Misi- His name should be missing because that is what he was doing during the first three games of the season. He was as effective yesterday, when he was out injured, as he was in the games he did play.
    Third round- Jerry- Another wasted offensive line pick by Ireland
    Fourth round- Edds- The fact they cut him in the preseason says all that needs to be said about this selection
    Fifth round- Carroll- Why he is even on the team is beyond me. I guess his Mom being the Lt. Governor of Florida must hold some sway with the organization. Perhaps Ross wants him to use his influence with his Mom to get Governor Scott to agree to funding for upgrading the stadium. It certainly isn't his stellar play on the field that has kept him on the roster.
    Sixth round- Jones- Another player I have no idea why he is playing. Every time I see him, he is chasing a receiver who has gotten behind him. He is also a very weak tackler for a safety in the NFL.
    Seventh round- McCoy and Spitler- McCoy was cut and Spitler is hanging on as a special team player who will never be a starter in the NFL.

    If there is another GM who did as bad as Ireland did in the 2010 draft. I suspect that GM will looking for a new job shortly, just as I hope Ireland will be.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Exactly. Being a mediocre drafter makes you at best worthy of being Director of College Scouting.
     
    Coral Reefer likes this.
  26. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Agreed.
    It's one phase of a GM's duties.

    He's done ok in drafts.
    Managing the roster overall has been a real issue for him.
     
  27. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

    1,333
    457
    0
    Aug 4, 2008
    They should keep Ireland on to evaluate the undrafted free agents. He did hit on Bess, Carpenter, and Wake. Other than that give his *** the boot.

    I have been a pretty solid Ireland supporter, but I can't in good conscious defend his performance anymore. I think coaching has a huge part in this but Ireland has just as much 'stank' on him.
     
  28. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    I'm behind CK and Boomer's pick of Russ Ball. Among other things to consider he has had to deal with several types of owners/GMs as well as working himself up from the bottom. Jeff Ireland's exposure has been Parcells and Jerry Jones, no wonder hes an egotistical SOB. He needs to go, as well, to make sure the stink is completely removed!
     
  29. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

    5,790
    2,699
    113
    May 8, 2008
    It's year 4 of Jeff Ireland's tenure as GM of this team. To this point the QB position has not been addressed adequately. The offensive line is still in shambles despite all the time and money that has been invested in bad players. Tight End has not been addressed in 4 years. We still have no pass rush outside of Cam Wake. Our secondary is a mess, to the tune of bringing back a 34 year old injury prone nickel corner who we already cut once this season because we're just that bad. Safety has been a cluster **** for the past 4 years as well never truly being addressed as it should be. We drafted 4 linebackers in 2010 and Misi is the only guy who can even get on the field and even he splits time with Jason Taylor. And don't even get me started on guys like Philip Merling and Pat White. And despite the fact that Tony Sparano preaches all three phases of the game and the hidden yardage battle we let go our best return man (Ted Ginn) and have never done anything to further address the position.

    To be fair though, they have brought in Jake Long, Kendall Langford, Vontae Davis, Cameron Wake, Davone Bess, Brandon Marshall (who needs to step his game up,) Danile Thomas and Pouncey (the jury is still out on both, but they look good.) So while it's not all bad and there have been good personnel acquisitions, the bad acquisitions and the seeming defiance to address certain positions has been and will ultimately be the downfall of this team and the Sparano/Ireland duo.
     
    Phins28, texanphinatic and MonstBlitz like this.
  30. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

    3,982
    1,434
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Clean house *****es..............I'm talking no phone call no nothing. Go full out Parcells style by emptying their offices and put the **** on the sidewalk.
     
  31. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    You know, there's a part of me deathly afraid that he would trade out of the #1 spot. He is ****head enough to do it.
     
  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    After the 2010 season there was enough reasonable doubt that Henne was not able to get the job done. Bringing in Matt Moore as competition is not enough emphasis on the position in my opinion.

    Barring a drastic turnaround in performance, I'd wager a large sum of money Chad Henne is not this team's starting QB in 2012. Not with the way rookie QBs have been performing this year.
     
  33. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

    1,801
    857
    113
    Jul 31, 2011
    Hollywood, Florida
    I think it depends you can have a weak head coach look at the colts but have a guy like Peyton Manning who is the real coach of the team. I would say the same for Ray Lewis and the ravens once he retires I expect that defense to fall hard. Then you can look at Pats and say thats all coaching and not much to do with players. I'm not sold on either one being the only blueprint you can look at the 49ers this year and say well its the coach, and then you can look at the Titans this year and say its the QB.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I think MonstBlitz seems a little singularly focused on the QB position with respect to Jeff Ireland, though he did mention some other positions like safety, but I don't think he's THAT far off.

    What you have to acknowledge right now is that these players aren't playing up to their talent, and so you ask why that is the case. When did these players check out? I know some would say maybe it was when Ross went out and interviewed Harbaugh, but those people need to re-watch Week 17 of of the 2010 NFL season. They have it backwards. Ross went out to California to interview Harbaugh because the team checked out, not the other way around.

    So, why did that happen? Where was the inflection point? I think it was during the 2010 NFL season and I think it happened a number of times. It happened when Chad Henne kept performing awfully in Dan Henning's admittedly awful offense. He got benched, the team got all excited when Pennington was going to come in, they had energy and exuberance, then Pennington got hurt right away and they were crushed. Then Tyler Thigpen came in at the end of the Titans game and he got them all razzed up, and then he blew goats against the Bears, and again the team was crushed. But winning will buy you enthusiasm, and Chad Henne helped break open a game against the Raiders, and so I think he bought another couple of weeks of credibility...but you listen to Channing Crowder cite the Cleveland Browns game last year as a game where the defense did everything they could and the offense was just terrible...and the offense stayed terrible for the next 3 games. Tell me that wasn't a turning point that led to the Week 17 game which was the most embarrassing and pathetic performance from a Dolphins team since the 62-7 playoff game.

    I think that was it. And so basically, you have QB-driven bad performances that led to the team selling out on Sparano and this entire system. From there the only thing that could get it back would have been wins, and Henne isn't good enough to earn any if he doesn't have a full team's worth of wind at his back. He needs a lot of help, and the help wasn't coming because they already checked out for the most part.

    This isn't a league where you can play today like there was no yesterday. What you do, the choices you make, and how you play...affects everything you do in the future.
     
    MonstBlitz and Trowa like this.
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I can see the team using Henne as the scapegoat and thus responding in the fashion you are desrcibing..They were a Chad Penningon team that had no hope..
     
  36. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Not only will Henne not be the starting QB for the Dolphins next year. He is a free agent after this season and with a new HC and GM taking over, I just don't see the new regime having any interest in resigning Henne. I think it is much more possible that the Dolphins draft, Luck, Barkley, or Jones, depending on the Dolphins position in the draft. I think with a new HC in charge, the young QB will become the starter almost immediately. Rebuilding is going to take three or four years and giving a young QB the starting job immediately will only help him in the long run.

    After this season I don't think you will see Henne as a starting QB in the NFL. He will end up signing with a team as a back up and that is where I see him remaining for the rest of his career.
     
  37. Third Man

    Third Man Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,324
    1,164
    113
    Nov 10, 2010
    I like that the focus of the fans' and media's ire has started to shift from Sparano to Ireland. Sparano being fired has become basically a foregone conclusion, so I'm glad to see that people are training a lot of their real venom these days for Ireland. The more pressure the fans put on Ross that Ireland is considered as big a problem as anyone, the better. We need him to see that we're in it for the long haul... that we're willing to deal with temporary discomfort if it means long term success.
     
    jw3102 likes this.
  38. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Perhaps your love of Ireland has warped your ability to see the truth. Over the last two seasons, plus the first four games of this season, the talent Ireland has selected for this team is a combined 14-22. How this equates to Ireland being an above average GM totally escapes me. The fact is that thousands of former ticket holders were fed up with Sparano and Ireland and that is why we did not renew our seats this year. If Ross thinks firing Sparano and keeping Ireland will solve the problems on this team, he is sadly mistaken.

    Fortunately based on the comments on this forum and on the radio from fans, the vast majority seem to be on my side in the argument to get rid of Ireland, along with Sparano. It is time for Ross to clean house and start over and the only way to do that is to get rid of all the Parcell leftovers.
     
  39. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Once again, pick a team, and go look at their drafts in the same situation. I don't think you have any idea what realistic success rates on draft picks actually are.

    Odrick isn't playing poorly by any means. He's playing pretty good for what is essentially his rookie season. He's been put in a poor position, however. Most of his snaps are coming as a Nickel DE in a 4-man line. Please go around the league and show me any examples of 300 pound defensive linemen who are playing in wide techniques in general, much less for most of their snaps.

    Koa Misi is a run-down OLB. He's basically playing the Matt Roth role, and he's played it well. He's better than the other OLBs drafted in the same range as him, and he's good at his job. The coaching staff refuses to put him on the field, despite the fact that both the guys they've got ahead of him(Odrick and Taylor) are not performing, and in Taylor's case, did not perform better than him last year.

    Carroll and Jones are contributors. They've been asked to contribute pretty far ahead of what they should be doing at this point and time, but they both should be on the roster. Jones should be a depth player, because he's clearly got upside, but he has some serious flaws. Carroll started the season, and should continue to be no better than your 4th corner. He's your #2 corner right now.
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Jeff Ireland picks the players. He doesn't slot them on the depth chart, coach them, or design the scheme around them. The players have as individuals performed pretty well relative to what average actually is. Which again, you don't seem to understand or want to make any interest to understand.
     

Share This Page