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Hindsight: would you have traded for Kyle Orton?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Oct 8, 2011.

Should the Orton trade have been made?

Poll closed Oct 15, 2011.
  1. Yes,

    5 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. No,

    62 vote(s)
    78.5%
  3. Should have drafted a Qb

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  4. New Qb, but not Orton

    4 vote(s)
    5.1%
  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, with Henne out for the yr, and possibly for his Dolphins career, in hindsight would the Kyle Orton trade have been the better move to have made?

    I ask the question as Henne has missed at least 1 game each of the last 3 yrs as a starter, so to me, betting a season on Matt Moore seemed odd then, and seems downright ill conceived, not that I believe Moore is a bad Qb, but he did not fit my criteria:

    60% completions (or so)
    2 to 1 Td to Int Ratio (or as close as possible)
    20 career starts so you know what you were getting

    3 guys more or less fit that model:

    -Vince Young
    -Rex Grossman
    -Kyle Orton
     
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  2. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    If you're not into position next year to draft a quarterback (say after Jones), then you could perhaps go with a veteran and then a red zone QB like Tebow in a trade.

    Orton next year would be a great fit as a WCO QB under say Gruden. He reminds a lot of people for better or for worse of Brian Griese.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well Jaj, my thinking is Moore was to much of an unknown, Henne had missed time as well, and they bent over backwards to not really bring in anyone who could challenge him in Camp and the preseason, in hindsight that was a large bet that did not pay off.
     
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  4. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    God no, we should have drafted Mallet.
     
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  5. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Even with Orton how good were they going to be though? The right side of the line was not suitable for a down the field offense.
     
  6. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Not just no, but hell no.

    Why trade a draft pick and pay $30 million to a QB when your coach and GM are on the verge of being fired? Sinking or swimming with Henne was the right call. And now Henne's sunk, he's taking Sparano with him, and Ireland might get pulled in as well.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which would make betting on Henne even more of a longshot, a Qb with no real prior success, stuck behind a leaky OL, and "go get'm Henne"?
     
  8. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Wanted to before, but now I am thankful we didn't.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Because contuinity matters.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Why?

    I ask out of pure curiousity, as imo adding Orton but watching the Defence collapse would have negated the move, "but" at the time, it appeared to be a sound move that they did not make.
     
  11. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    The future of the Phins is not Orton,I would rather they take their lumps(again) and stop tradeing their future for stop gap solutions.If they are to be respectable again it will take time and developed talent.
     
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  12. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Because the team sucks, while Orton is better then Henne, he's not a top tier QB that could put this team on its back. We may be 2-3 at this point, but where does that get us. I thought we were better then we are, so I thought Orton would help us make that next step into the playoffs. He wouldn't have.
     
  13. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Orton would not have provided continuity. It would have been the third QB change under this regime (Pennington -> Henne -> Orton) and Orton would likely have been either benched or shown the door by the next regime.

    Orton is also not a very good quarterback. Everyone who wanted to trade for him suffered from "grass is greener" syndrome.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is why it is hindsight Nappy, knowing what we knew at the time, not what we know now.

    Would Orton have converted those TD chances to Brandon Marshall?

    Maybe, Henne's weakness in the RZ did not go away with the new offense, nor did the offenses in general go away, however at the time...it would have been the right move imo.
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Hindsight is what we know now, and what we know now is that would not have been a good trade.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    How? Recall what Ireland said:

    "I do not feel like we are desperate for a Qb"?
     
  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I honestly....don't know what your arguing....
     
  18. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    Hell no. Wanted the Dolphins to take the Alex Smith route for one more year, glad it happened.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, it comes down to whether you want to give Kyle Orton 30 mill right?, if thats what it comes down to then I say no..You go with your QB that you drafted in the 2nd round, and you find him a capable backup..done, if any starter goes down most teams are going to have a poor season.
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ireland said he would not trade for a Qb as he felt we did not need one, that, in hindsight, was massively wrong.
     
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  21. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Nope. Because Orton would have gotten hammered just as much as Henne has. Probably would be injured as well. As each day passes....I want Luck more and more...
     
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  22. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Is this a serious question?
     
  23. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    In hindsight the Dolphins should have stayed the hell away from Brandon Marshall.
    The guy just flat out blows.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The fate of humanity lays in your response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Funny to see all the no responses to the poll when well over half of this board was begging and pleading for Orton to be traded here.. :lol: Wow...
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Fans..are fickle beasties....:lol:

    TBH tho, to me it seems like the 0-4 start has stunned everyone, 3 loses by 10 pts or more, hard to own much of anythng about this yr's team.
     
  27. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I wanted them to trade for Orton at the right price but was quite pleased with Henne to start the season against NE.
     
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  28. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Desperate would have been trading for the painfully mediocre Kyle Orton.......... he's just not that good, Pads. I was very relieved we didn't waste future pics for him. Not a guy to build around.....which is what this team needs
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And Matt Moore is?

    It still amazes me in hindsight that they were willing to bet so heavily on Chad Henne.
     
  30. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    No, because wed have given up a top 5 pick likely for orton, and maybe more. We would still be bad and would have fewer picks next draft to fix things
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A 4th, but Orton wanted 30 millie for 3 yrs.
     
  32. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    It's one of those things where you just don't use the guy right, and he's not motivated correctly. Tore it up in Denver...and trade him to NE next week and see what happens...same goes for Bess. Oh yeah and Welker lol. Wait nevermind, we know how that has worked out. Gotta have an offensive system that maximizes individual players' strengths.
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It would have been a bad idea in foresight or hindsight. He was not any better than Henne and we would still be looking for a QB in this draft, but with fewer resources.
     
  34. felly smarts

    felly smarts New Member

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    I think we kept the right guy.

    I don't think our problems are with the players we have. I think our problems are once again with the coaching staff. I don't think Ross is a good NFL team owner. I don't have any faith in Ireland. And if we are sucking for Luck, then this entire organization needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. To me laying down and quitting is unacceptable. I don't care how you look at.

    I coach pee wee football and we drill "not quitting" into these kids. And these kids don't quit. We are 5-0. You play until the whistle blows. The success on the field starts from the top. It's the same with professional football.

    I haven't quit on the Phins in 30 years. I don't expect them to quit on me.

    This organization needs help.
     
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  35. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To answer this Padre, you are totaly correct...

    Miami, with Hennem was ranked 2nd in RZ efficiency in 2009, the following link will show ands was better than Miami with Penny in 2008... IIRC, we were talked about a team that were efficient in scoring in 2008, 2009, but we were not efficient in getting to the RZ (between the 20's)...

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2009-02-02

    What is strange in 2010, is that we were more efficient in the RZ at Home, but lost most of the games there...

    and this FO is not going to use hindsight, and have not used it since drafting Henne, and like probably you and a few other fans have poste... The FO will either sink or swim with Henne and they stayed the course...
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be fair, that was also the era that the WC was highly effective in the RZ.


    Thanks mainly to an atrocious patriots defense on opening day, the next home game, v the Texans...1 TD.

    This is one of the reasons why I'm not so sure Moore is that large of a downgrade, Henne and the O was good between the 20's but could not seal the deal, Moore could turn out to be worse at it then Henne but that remains to be seen, Daboll did some good work with the Brownies backup Qb's.
     
  37. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    An emphatic no. I wanted the remaining genius of the "trifecta" to win or lose with Henne and not go chasing after some mediocre QB especially one that would require giving up draft picks. I liked what I saw from Chad, it looked like he was ready to take that next step but unfortunately this team looks like they have not recovered from last year's season ending meltdown.
     
  38. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well then to be fair... it was a Henne driven Offense, was it not??? Also lets not forget that the 2nd half of 2009, the Offense lost Ronnie and the Wild Cat, so Offensively they went all regular for most of the rest of the season from TB game on out...

    It seems that your mind is made up Pads...

    From "Play by Play" stats we see the following..

    28 total TD's in the RZ in 2009 and 14 FG's...

    7 (25%) from WC Rushing formation (a couple of these after Ronnie went out)... 10 (36%) from Regular Rushing formations... and 11 (39%) from Passing TDs...

    17 total TD's in the RZ in 2010 and 14 FG's...

    1 (6%) from the WC formation... 17 (35%) from Regular Rushing formations... 10 (59%) from Passing TDs...

    I was referencing 2009 not 2011... Henne and the Offense were efficient in 2009, a year after the WC first appear, and opponents neutralized the WC opportunities after the NO game...

    To say that this team has trouble in the RZ, no comment...

    But... its true to believe that this O team has not found any cohesivenes in the RZ, at least not the skill players, and that could also be the blame of the OC... not just the QB... just that we were easy to blame Henning last year, but not Daboll??? I think Daboll still needs to tinker and the guys need the time to work out the kinks in the RZ...

    I do believe that, barring injuries, as the year progresses this team will improve in the RZ, if not, we again must look at the OC and the scheme...
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    But Nardo, keep in mind Penny started 2.5 games that yr.

    As for the whys, Marshall catches passes on routes that Henne was not good at throwing into the endzone, leaving...who...to make up the difference?

    Hartline? Good at the same routes Marshall is, Fasano? Stays in to block? Bess? not as effective in a congested field, Henne was unwilling to throw into tight windows.

    When your Qb cannot toss fades or jump balls well, and is unwilling to throw into tight windows, you do not have many options in the RZ aside from running the ball.

    This is one area I believe that Moore or Orton will be an upgrade.
     
  40. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Doesn't matter how you use the guy if he can't catch the damn football. Also doesn't matter who is throwing him the ball in Miami.
    Not only does he drop potential TD's from Henne but also from Moore.
    Marshall isn't focused and doesn't give a damn. That is the real problem.
    Orton wouldn't have made any difference.
    Trade Marshall now and cut your losses. He sucks.
     

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