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PFF: Top 5 Defensive Coordinator and Position Coach Ratings

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is fairly simple. I'm attributing it to Pro Football Focus because it utilizes their Overall Ratings and Snap Counts, but the rest of it was compiled by myself.

    All I did is sum the PFF Overall Ratings at the three position levels on Defense (DL, LB, DB), and divide that into the sum of snap counts for each position. Then I sorted it down to make sure that it goes into a ranking, and marked the Top 5's. I also added up the DL + LB + DB rankings to make a DC rating, and sorted that so that you could see Top 5 total defensive units.

    It just asks the very basic question...whose units and players are performing THE best right now in the NFL?

    Here they are:

    Team - Defensive Coordinator (Rating)
    1. San Francisco - Vic Fangio (10)
    2. Cincinnati - Mike Zimmer (16)
    3. Baltimore - Chuck Pagano (18)
    4. Dallas - Rob Ryan (19)

    Team - Defensive Line Coach(es)
    1. Cincinnati - Jay Hayes
    2. Dallas - Brian Baker
    3. San Francisco - Jim Tomsula
    4. Philadelphia - Jim Washburn
    5. Oakland - Mike Waufle

    Team - Linebackers Coach(es)
    1. Detroit - Matt Burke
    2. Baltimore - Dean Pees and Ted Monachino (OLBs)
    3. Jacksonville - Mark Duffner
    4. Washington - Lou Spanos
    5. San Francisco - Jim Leavitt

    Team - Secondary Coach(es)
    1. Cleveland - Jerome Henderson
    2. San Francisco - Ed Donatell and Greg Jackson (Asst.)
    3. Tennessee - Marcus Robertson and Curtis Fuller (Asst.)
    4. Pittsburgh - Carnell Lake
    5. Seattle - Kris Richard and Rocky Seto (Asst.)

    Note: You will notice I stopped the Defensive Coordinator list at 4 guys instead of 5. This is because there was a really wide gap in the formula result from adding up the respective DL + LB + DB rankings of the #4 defensive coordinator (Rob Ryan - 19) and the #5 defensive coordinator (Dick Jauron - 29). There was a cluster of about 5 other defensive coordinators that came out with similar total unit rankings as Jauron. They were Seattle's Gus Bradley (32), Detroit's Gunther Cunningham (34), Jacksonville's Mel Tucker (36), Minnesota's Fred Pagac (36), and the Giants' Perry Fewell (37).

    This would be a pool of guys from which you'd draw your favorite assistant coaches. The defensive coordinators listed could all be considered for Head Coach positions.
     
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  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Damn, the 49ers are everywhere.

    I'm intrigued by Pagano and Zimmer.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Recently in an interview Ray Lewis was asked why the Ravens' defense has gotten back up to elite levels and is forcing so many turnovers, and he attributed it all to Chuck Pagano. He said they'd all run through a brick wall for Chuck and he he spoke really glowingly about him. As I recall, Chuck was a big part of the Hurricanes' defenses back in 2001 around the Championship runs.

    Mike Zimmer has always been a fiery guy. This year that defense is pretty damn impressive though. They don't have a high scoring offense, understandably with a rookie quarterback, but the DL unit has been by far the best, the LBs (#9) and DBs (#6) units have both been pretty good.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I have to say though, out of all these units the one that impresses me probably the most is the Cleveland Browns' secondary. Looking at the PFF ratings, it's HARD to come by a positive rating this year for secondary players, with the way the NFL is throwing the ball all over the effing place. But when I looked at the Browns ahead of the Dolphins game, the way their 6 DBs played, between Joe Haden, Sheldon Brown, Dimitri Patterson, T.J. Ward, Usama Young and Mike Adams...in this new NFL full of spread and all kinds of passing all over the play...that's been real impressive. That secondary is a throwback in the midst of this new passing game. They don't give anything up easy. And if you notice, they don't exactly have the most "name" talent.

    Jerome Henderson coaches that unit. He was a player for 8 years and then went to work in Finance. He came to the Jets in 2006 as Director of Player Development, and moved to Assistant Secondary Coach in 2007. He became full Secondary Coach in 2008. He became the Browns' Defensive Backs' Coach in 2009. He's helped develop Darrelle Revis, Joe Haden and T.J. Ward. His units had positive overall ratings in 2009 and 2010, and back with the Jets in 2008 the secondary had monstrous PFF ratings. He had Darrelle Revis, Kerry Rhodes, Abram Elam, Dwight Lowery and Hank Poteat playing inspired football.
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I guess given all the passing going on in the NFL, I am drawn to these guys that are able to coach good SECONDARIES, because the way things are these secondaries are going to just keep drawing bad scores from PFF.

    Only 10 secondaries in the NFL right now are even drawing positive total ratings from PFF at the moment.

    Another one to look out for would be Ed Donatell of the 49ers. He coached the secondary under Mike Nolan in 2010, and there's no doubt the secondary was the strongest part of Nolan's unit that year. He was Green Bay's defensive coordinator from 2001 to 2003. They went to the playoffs all three years, went to the NFC Championship Game in two of the three years, and the team led the NFL in takeaways (116) over the three year span. Their defenses ranked #5, #12 and #11 during the three year stretch. He went off to Atlanta as defensive coordinator from 2004 to 2006 under Jim Mora, Jr and a #30 Atlanta defense in 2003 went up to #14 in 2004, then #18 and #15. His secondaries with Denver in 2009 and 2010 had nice positive overall PFF ratings both years.

    He was previously a secondary coach with the Denver Broncos from 1995 to 1999 where he coached the secondaries that won the 1998 and 1999 Super Bowls. The Broncos ranked top 10 against the pass in 4 of the 5 seasons he was there, and overall ranked 7th in the NFL for passing yards per game and passing yards per attempt for the 5 year stretch.

    You could do a lot worse than this guy for a Defensive Coordinator.

    Incidentally...god damn we should have hired Jim Harbaugh. Look at the coaches and the system he's put together over there. Jim Leavitt was an inspired choice at LBs Coach. Getting someone with Ed Donatell's resume to coach your DBs was an outright coup. He kept on Jim Tomsula as DL Coach which turned out a good decision as Ray McDonald is playing way better than he has any right to. He has Alex Smith playing as if he were the #1 overall pick in the Draft for a reason, which is just plain god damn stupefying.
     
  6. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, Ross either blew the Harbaugh thing or he just wasn't interested.

    We'll never knwo the full story.
     
  7. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Zimmer is awesome.
     
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  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's the first thought that came into my head. Failing to hire Jim Harbaugh hurts. It's the beginning of his tenure, so it's early to judge, but he's doing a great job.
     
  9. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks Chris for putting up the stats...

    and for not being able to bring Harbaugh in, rumors, can't post going from memory, were around that he probably did not want to come to Miami, and was using Ross to raise his price...

    Whether he did not want to come here for family reasons, we might know, and the same could be said of getting Luck in next years draft... Yes he might want to stay in College an extra year...

    Chris I might have missed it, but were did Nolan rank?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've had Zimmer as my sleeper pick, but we know it ain't gonna go down like that..

    I don't believe for 1 second that Harbaugh wanted to coach here..I'am not gonna put that on Ross..He wanted the best, Harbaugh is a great coach, and he made a move..

    anyone who gets endorsed by Ray Lewis like that is worth talking to.
     
  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I like the names, and I'm not against hiring a defensive coordinator as the head coach. However, I would have to hear his ideas on offense first. I am completely against Miami getting another traditional thinking, run the ball and play defense head coach. The good thing about Mike Zimmer is that he has been around some explosive offenses, both at the college level and in the NFL. He was Mike Price's defensive coordinator for a while at Washington State where they ran the original single back spread. He's coached with Bobby Petrino's version of the same offense. Now, he's coaching with Jay Gruden, who is doing an excellent job bringing along Andy Dalton.

    For those wanting him, another plus is that Jeff Ireland is familiar with him. The bad, of course, is that this is another former Dallas Cowboys assistant coach. Regardless of how good he may be, I'm sure most are getting tired of hiring former Cowboys coaches just as much as they are tired of bringing in former Cowboys players.
     
  12. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Very different era of Cowboy football. By the way his defenses overachieving like that is incredible. I can't honestly say that defense's talent is better than this one. Could you get him to Miami with an offer of being assistant coach?
     
  13. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Another thing to note, Spags might be out in St. Louis. He runs a very aggressive 4-3 scheme that blitzes well, and he'd use our current LB core, DTs, and perhaps one more DE in an ideal manner. His scheme isn't very difficult for Miami's current personnel to transfer to. Cinncy's success on defense though is exceptional. They limit big plays, they play great run defense, and they get off the field on third down. It's not like they have great personnel helping them to do it. Michael Johnson, Robert Gathers, Peko, and Geno Atkins are not a great DL. Maulauluga is a run stuffer, Howard can cover really well as is athletic (what Burnett perhaps could be at WLB), and Manny Lawson is a cheap pickup who is a strong run stuffer that can cover. I don't see much reason to think he can't use Miami's personnel efficiently.
     
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Reggie Nelson (yes, that Reggie Nelson formerly of Jacksonville) has really played well. We all should remember their other starting S, none other than Chris Crocker. They also get Pacman Jones back in a few weeks too - it'll make them even better.
     
  15. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Regardless those guys aren't exactly high caliber talent. They just do the little things, tackle well, and basically say I'll give you a certain amount of points today but I'm going to prevent a domination by you, all the while taking the ball away when I can. It's really good football for this day and age. Only thing I'm not sure about his approach to SOLBs and strong side defensive ends. He might want a larger player than Cameron Wake. Considering who plays for him I wouldn't be opposed to trading Wake if we had him as coordinator so that he can get a pick and get the right players for what he wants. Zimmer's scheme is really simply. It's gap football, allowing a decent LB core to always get to the RB. Very disciplined, aggressive, and that's it. It's cheap, good defense. He could do quite a bit with Miami's current group.
     
  16. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You have obviously paid more attention to the Bengals than I have. Tell me. How close is Mike Zimmer's schemes to what we had in Miami when Jim Bates ran the defense? Zimmer does come from that 4-3 style that has the big, immovable defensive tackles that occupy blockers, wide set defensive ends, emphasizes speed at linebacker, and is primarily press coverage in the secondary? Zimmer and Bates were both assistants in Dallas when Dave Campo was the defensive coordinator, and they ran the same 4-3 defense from the days Wannstedt was the DC to the time Parcells dumped Zimmer because he wanted to run "his" 3-4.
     
  17. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'll get back to you on that one, but it's not speed at linebacker to the point where you give up size like Miami did with Zach. I can't figure out what the DEs are playing.

    From what I could find: It's a bunch of one-gap (perfect for Miami's DE/DTs) and instead of the 4-3 over Miami used with the spill defensive ends it uses very large 4-3 defensive ends. With the run contained by these larger defensive ends and the interior pressure out of the three-gap (especially on third downs), the LBs are in excellent position to make the play. They are extremely aggressive at LB, they flow well, and they're well protected by a one-gap front all over. Zimmer bucks the trend of smaller 4-3 DEs with his larger players. His nickel has some more athletic pass rushers if need be but his base package is run first while applying interior pressure through a group effort, not the DE intensive approach Miami used. Miami lines up with:

    FS- Clemons, SS- Jones, SLB- Dansby, MLB- Mitchell, WOLB- Burnett, NT (one-gap)- Soliai, McDaniels DT- Starks, Odrick, Olshansky

    They'll be fine.

    It does by the way demand good man coverage CBs, Smith and Allen are probably best at man coverage anyway. Caroll can only man cover, and they'd probably have to find another good man coverage CB, a veteran most likely. All in all it's similar to the 2001 Dolphin defense with a three technique Gardener and a 275 lb Trace Armstrong. It does have a lighter DE in Johnson but even he has bulked up and is playing well. It's a great defense for a team that has the personnel Miami does unless you want Wake at RE. Even in the nickel package, they don't get run on all that often and their nickel is well stocked with a good nickel CB and a DL that can still hold at the point unlike Miami's personnel which are extremely light at the DE spots.

    It's old football.
     
  18. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    What happened to Nolan being good last year, and bad this year?
     
  19. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Nolan's scheme is frustrating, there's too much change in the personnel. There's much of a need for this guy being able to do this and that, cover here, cover there. Zimmer's is aggressive, simple, and sound. Miami's current personnel are pretty well suited for it. A cover the top FS, an in the box SS with some man cover ability, a big MLB, an athletic WLB, a zone cover solid SLB, a big one-gap NT, a good three technique, and then the ends the part I'm struggling to figure out.
     
  20. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    I struggle to figure out why we have played so much zone, and why we have moved downward this year. It "should" have been the opposite.
     
  21. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Look up front. Soliai isn't a good two-gap NT, he lacks leverage. Langford is not playing well. Starks is better suited as a one-gapper. Wake is not a strong side player on every down as he is going all out to stop the run. He's probably exhausted by the end of the game. The ILBs are not in the right scheme, the FS is a SS, the CBs have not been playing well.
     
  22. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    This is based on me reading up on this and not so much about what I've seen, so take that into account. It looks like Mike Zimmer's roots are based in that scheme, but he has developed some adaptability based on what he has, particularily at cornerback. One of the things about the defense that Zimmer was a part of in Dallas and the roots of that system is the quarters coverage scheme. Those teams played primarily quarters coverage. Early on in Dallas, they didn't have great cornerbacks, so they played them off about 8 to 10 yards. The corners and safeties were even. When they had Deion Sanders and Kevin Smith though, they brought those corners up into press coverage. The corners had their quarters, and the safeties read the run and then read the pass patterns. There was a big emphasis on having smart safeties -- something Miami currently does not have.

    From what I've read, Mike Zimmer ran a lot of press coverage with Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph at cornerback, but recently he has done a lot more disguising his coverages. The goal of the Jimmy Johnson defense was to be simple, do just a few things, and execute those few things better than the opposition could execute what they wanted to do. That's great when you have the kind of talent we had with Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain at cornerback, but it isn't so great when you have JB Brown and Vestee Jackson. From that standpoint, it is good that Zimmer can scheme his way around his talent.

    The more I'm reading about this guy, the more I like him. Like I said though, I want to see who he is thinking about hiring as an offensive coordinator and whether he will let him be wide open.
     
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  23. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I just answered back, let's see how we can compare. Allen and Davis at their best are good enough to play in man coverage. They have a smart safety in Clemons, but they haven't been playing him. Here's a key difference I've noticed in the Bengals recently. They play a 197 lb SS, they used to play Roy Williams in the old days so it really is an issue of adjusting to personnel. In Miami I'm pretty confident he would either put Reshad Jones in Roy Williams old role, sign a cheap FA FS/SS around 205 and put him at SS, or he would use Culver as a second FS/SS. I prefer his current approach because having two very capable zone coverage safeties over the top let's you play different coverages. The run defense is taken care of first and foremost up front by front seven. I can't see Crocker much as an in the box SS. Aggressive man, safe over the top, run stopping up front, pressure from the middle, and the edges. It's aggressive, sound, and productive. My absolutely ideal defense in today's day and age.
     
  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    If you wanted to project Cameron Wake to the Jimmy Johnson defense, he would be the wide set open end that Jason Taylor played. I don't think anyone would misplace him as a closed end in that scheme. He's a Charles Haley/Jason Taylor type that can pin his ears back and get after the quarterback.
     
  25. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'm not sure on that though because Johnson might not be a spill DE in Cinncy. He may be playing contain. Zimmer usually adjust well so not a huge problem if he wants to keep Wake on the line. That Dallas D from what I remember had the closed end spill too KB, playing in the nine technique. After checking a bit it looks to me like it's very, very similar to what Miami had in 2001. Really similar, without Bates' perversions from trying two play two fat run pluggers.

    We could do this scheme.
     
  26. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Well, the outside linebackers in the scheme were responsible for run containment and turning everything back inside, so I imagine they did spill the ends a good bit in the scheme.
     
  27. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    LOL. Yeah, but other than that, their great.
     
  28. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I looked back and saw the prototype for their LDE in that scheme. It would be Trace Armstrong at 275 or Tony Tolbert at 268. Basically a guy that can play in both the spill role as well as contain. Cameron Wake is not really that guy. What do you think, keep Wake and have him play on that line or go to free agency and try to find solid pass rushers that have better size for run stopping?
     
  29. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I wouldn't have him playing a 9 techinque on the strong side, but I would have him playing the 9 on the weakside the way Jason Taylor did.

    Another prototype for the strongside end is Adewale Ogunleye, who was around 260 lbs or so.
     
  30. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Honestly I'd prefer Miami go heavier. Geathers isn't much of a pass rusher, but at 280 lbs he stops the run well. That's not all that hard to find to find in the NFL. Tennessee's Jason Jones is a free agent and at 276 he'd fit the bill. He reminds me of Jay Williams who was a good fit here. A lighter Phillip Merling would also fit well. Maybe Koa Misi would be your third down guy. As for the RE. It looks like Johnson is his guy, his guy in Dallas would be closer to Haley, Taylor would be with the 2002 Dolphins, and Wake fits that prototype well.

    Really it's the 2001 Miami Dolphin defense.
     
  31. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    These are the same players, playing the same positions, as last year. The only thing I will agree with is that they are not playing well.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    For the record I don't. Think Mike Nolan suddenly became a bad coach. No more than Dom Capers did.

    I just thunk that he's here because of Tony Sparano and once Tony is fired he will toss his name in the ring for the HC job, and he won't get it, and when that happens he will ask to be released to find a job elsewhere. That is USUALLY a request a team will grant (how do you think we got him from Denver?).

    I would certainly entertain the idea of Mike Nolan coming back. But I think he should be allowed to hire position coaches that suit him better if that is what he wants. He basically inherited coaches picked by Tony Sparano and Jeff Ireland for Paul Pasqualoni's defense. Kacy Rodgers and Todd Bowles are holdovers. I'd love to know what influence (if any) Nolan had in hiring Bill Sheridan and Bryan Cox.
     
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  33. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    I have no idea why you would base a player's weight, on the DL, with production. Starks is at 290 and much better than Trace or Tony in contain and spill. Odrick may be better.

    Finding a solid pass rusher, in the draft or anywhere else is a difficult, at worst, task which is why they are at such a premium
     
  34. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I love, love, love Vic Fangio. Great mind, great teacher. He's from the school of Dick LeBeau-Dom Capers.
     
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  35. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Contain and spill? Starks 290. What? Odrick? I'm talking about the prototype player for the position. Starks and Odrick are DTs in this system and neither can spill worth a damn.
     
  36. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    I don't see Sheridan and/or Cox as changing what Nolan was doing. Having the worst D in the NFL, after having a good one last year is light years away from becoming a HC prospect. He may be lucky to maintain the position of DC.
     
  37. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I agree. The Dolphins defense this year isn't so much about scheme. It is about a lack of execution and personnel issues. The players simply aren't executing the plays they are supposed to make, and the secondary simply doesn't have the right personnel at this point.
     
  38. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    So according to CK, Henne faced the #1 secondary in Cleveland. Mmmmm interesting!
     
  39. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Completely disagree on Starks, and, as I said, Odrick is a maybe. Prototype players do not make plays, regardless of weight. Players do.
     
  40. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Why go to zone coverage with a new kid (Jones) trying to be the QB in the secondary?
     

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