Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Swagger jobbed all the time once he cashed in the MiTB briefcase and won the title. But at least he was champion and on PPVs.

 

I was really unimpressed with the direction of HHH/Punk vs Awesome Truth and it killed the PPV for me. The best matches were the first three, I thought from there we were in for a great night. The ring collapse would have been fine if the match would have had a conclusion. Lets say MH does the Worlds Strongest Slam off the turnbuckle and the ring breaks, Henry falls on BS and gets the pin.

Then Del Rio vs Cena got better as it went but the start I was falling asleep it was so bad. Also Christian and Sheamus are both great wrestlers but they have no chemistry together minus the spear and Sheamus landing his kick.

 

They did the ring gimmick to keep the Big Show/Henry feud for another month. If Henry pinned Show after that move the feud would have been over with.

I will say that as much as the WWE is just doing a bad job with the RAW brand, Smackdown with Henry and even Sheamus now has been pretty good lately.

 

Back in the day HHH and the Rock pinned eachother many times on PPV without ending fueds. its just what the new WWE hads conditioned us to expect.

 

Usually what happens is a heel will cheat and "steal" a victory from the face to continue the feud. If Henry pinned The Big Show at the PPV why would a rematch be needed? The heel would have won hands down. It wouldn't make sense to have Henry win there and continue the feud, who would buy Show as a threat after that? At least when Triple H and The Rock were trading victories both guys were over as crazy with the crowd and they put on good to great matches so no one cared the feud continued.

Think about this one though, CM Punk beats Cena at SS (the 2nd time in 2 months on PPV) and ADR beats Punk for the title, yet Punk has to wait 2 months to get his rematch and he's coming off of losing at 2 straight PPV yet he's the #1 contender? Talk about how this logic makes any sense. Don't you usually kept your top challengers strong leading up to a title match?

 

Rematches and rubber matches happen all the time in real combat sports. I see no reason why show couldn't lose clean, come back meaner, win one clean and setup the third as the epic conclusion.

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Wrestling isn't like most combat sports though for obvious reasons. Heels don't win clean and then have a rematch at the next PPV, that's not how wrestling works. Heels winning clean usually means the end of the feud. Again my question is if Mark Henry beat Show at the PPV after the suplex what wrestling fan is going to buy into a rematch between the two? Why would any wrestling fan care about a rematch when Henry already proved he could beat Show cleanly? At least now the WWE can promote the rematch that Henry and Show, two of the biggest wrestlers in the world (sizewise) broke the ring by pushing each other but neither man could finish the match because they fought each other so hard, buy the next PPV to see what's going to happen in their rematch. That's a better hook than Henry and Show broke the ring on a suplex and Henry pinned Show cleanly and now Show wants his revenge.

If you think Henry should have beaten Show clean in that match that fines, but what angle can the WWE use to make the rematch interesting and get fans to invest in it? A simple revenge storyline wouldn't work.

 

Man did they ever spend a lot of time last night with the triple h storyline, even had some good comedy when one guy asked if Triple H had a pulse after the second beatdown, no idiot they killed triple H on live tv with a sledgehammer, I know you have suspend belief. seems like they are to keep going with the unsafe work enviroment angle for a little bit longer. hopefully punk will win the title and keep it for a while, after he loses it they can start the builld up to a match with austin for wrestlemania.

 

Does anyone in 2011 wants to see a Triple H/Nash feud when even in 2003 no one cared and their matches were just awful. And is Nash even cleared to wrestle again? If you stop and really think, there hasn't been a single major RAW storyline that has made sense since the MiTB PPV.

 

I agree with Finkle about the Henry storyline. It was probably the most interesting way they can go with those two monsters. Show is making his comeback after a long layoff, so you can't job him out his first PPV back. Like Finkle said, if Show loses clean...why would fans invest money to see him get another rematch? Show winning would have cut the legs off of Henry's brilliant run as of late. Yes, they would have a rematch, but I would argue that them breaking the ring and ending in a no contest is way more interesting to the consumer because once they have another match, people are going to want to see what they do next.

If I am the WWE, I capitolize on this and have them have a falls count anywhere match and let them just BRAWL EVERYWHERE. Have them tear stuff off the walls, have them throw each other through walls. Knock over fixtures. Just an all out donnybrook that highlights their strength and size. Hell, maybe even have another no contest after they break something else. Just keep it rolling for another month or so before you blow it off. If they can figure out a way to do that, I think there is money to be made.

And Punk getting the title shot I thought would squash the rumors of his burial, but maybe not. Some of the blame has to be put on Punk as well since he has toed the company line ever since he signed his new contract. In fact, I think they sowed the seeds of a sellout storyline with Punk last night with the whole "respect," thing. If the WWE is smart, they should start to turn Punk back into a heel by making him be obsessed with the title, and him doing anything he can to obtain it, until ultimately succumbing to what Johnny Ace wants him to be and becoming a corporate champ. There is a redemption storyline built in to that as well after he loses his corporate title to whoever at Wrestlemania 28.

Also, Raw was not very good last night. Way too much HHH, twitter and Michael Cole.

 

The only problem is I didn't tune in to Vengeance to see them set up the next match with Henry and Show. I tuned in to see that match. They used it as a gimmick for the main event, that is how I see it.

If Show loses to Henry, I'd still watch another rematch. The angle is whether or not Show can ever overcome Henry

 

Non-finishes happen all the time at PPVs, especially non big 4 ones. It's not uncommon.

And if Show lost to Henry cleanly the answer would have been no Show can't overcome Henry thus the rematch would have been meaningless because Henry would have already proved the point. There's zero money in a rematch once the heel proves he can beat the face cleanly. Now if Henry cheated or had outside help then yes by all means bring on a rematch but again a heel beating a face cleanly kills the feud.

 

Why do we have to live in such a linear world where stories can only progress one way. The point is if fans care about the characters involved they will want to see a rematch regardless. If the fans aren't into the characters that says something as well.

Anyway what does everyone think about Cena/Rock vs Awesome Truth?

I wish they would have scripted in a story where somehow it would benefit the Rock to win this match, and a better reason for Cena to need him. It seems like two enemies joining forces for no reason.

 

Again though why would the fans want to see a rematch of Henry/Show if Show had already lost to Henry cleanly? The money is in the face chasing the heel, once the heel beats him cleanly the fans won't buy Show is a serious threat anymore. Doing this angle just expands the storyline and they're able to get another month's worth of storylines/angles for the rematch. Once Show loses cleanly, what's the storyline to continue the feud? What's the reasoning behind it? Why would fans care anymore? It can't simply be just having a rematch for the sake of having one. Tell me what will hook the fans and make them pay more money to see another match.

Yeah the Cena/Rock tag match is totally out of left field and doesn't make much sense if you think about it. Why would The Rock want to waste his time doing this match? I'm sure the explanation will be something lame like "I don't want Cena being injuried for our WM match so I'm going to help him blah blah blah".

 

In boxing if you lose, fans still buy a rematch if it was a close fight. If the Superbowl is a rematch fans will buy it as well. It works in every sport it should work in wrestling.

 

You can't compare wrestling to any other sport and the reasons should be obvious. There's zero money to be made in a rematch by having the good guy job cleanly to a heel in the match before.

Again, please tell me what would be interesting about the rematch if Mark Henry beat The Big Show. Where's the draw or hook that will catch the fans attention and make them want to pay money to see it.

 

How is it alinear world when the RING ****ING BROKE?!?!?! That is about as non-linear as it gets in wrestling. And Alex, you should know that there is ALWAYS a next show. Hell, the PPV after Wrestlemania is typically a bunch of re-runs. The WWE doesn't even use that show for a bunch of blowoff fueds anymore. They treat it as any other PPV (with the exception of the price and hype, which they capitalize on tremendously).

finle is right, you cna't compare a re-match in a legit sport to a re-match of a con. The psychology is way different. You CAN do re-matches, as they happen all the time, but you have to give the fans a reason to buy your con. If Show lost cleanly to Henry. It would do wonders for Henry to build him up as a monster...but not against Show. No one would have interest in seeing Henryface Show again. The build up would be in the next guy to see if he could overcome the monster who kicked Show's ***. The only way wrestling really works with continued re-matches is when they essentially announce a best of 7 series or it is a longstanding fued, and even then, most of the time, the history is swept under the rug for the sake of current storylines. It's just the way it is.

Besides, if you look at wrestling in America, the highest rated segments are typically the NON-wrestling ones and spots are more memorable than matches. Having spent time in the industry both here and overseas, it is treated way differently here. It is written differently, performed differently and the like. The Show-Henry match ended about as well as it could have without it being a blowoff match, which clearly it isn't.

As far as Rock-Cena goes, my guess is they lose do to either some sort of interference or miscommunication between the two. Everyone benefits from Miz/Truth winning. They get a huge resume building win over to icons, that they can milk forever. And Cena-Rock get even more of a reason to wrestle each other at Wrestlemania. Thsi will probably be the spark that kicks off their storyline heading into WM, so I am interested on how they pull that off.

And kudos to Miz and Truth for pulling this off. Truth has been a pro's pro forever and deserves this run, and Miz really has defied the odds as being a reality star ****er and transitioned himself into an actual wrestler. Very proud of him.

 

define pro's pro? I like truths character. He has done a great 180 with it.

 

I wish the WWE would throw a curveball and make it that it isnt John Laurnitus behind it all

 

Consumate professional. The guy was saddled with a somewhat borderline racist gimmick for most of his career. He has always worked with it and done the most he can with it. He never complains (as far as I know) and has put a LOT of guys over as well as given guys a rub (transfering his heat on to another guy when asked to). He is known to be a safe worker as well, which is a BIG thing when you are putting your well being into another guy's hands.

Dude turns 40 in a couple of months and looks like he is 21. He is also the first African American NWA World Heavyweight Champion when he won the title in TNA. Says a lot about how bad the NWA was that it took them until about 2007 to have someone who isn't white, carry the mantle. The funny thing is, as good as the R-Truth character has been recently, it boggles my mind that the WWE has never ran with Ron's real name (Ron Killings), as it sounds like the PERFECT wrestling persona.

It is also refreshing to see a tag team become a main event draw. Granted they probably won't stay that way for a long time, but it reminds me a bit of the New Age Outlaws, who were paired together as a punishment, and ended up becoming a huge draw in their own right. Miz and Truth were slapped together, seemingly because both had nothing to do and nowhere to go, only to find themselves connecting with the audience and skyrocketing to the main event. I woudl argue that both are in a better position now, than at any point in their careers as a singles champion (It's close when you consider Miz's hot run as WWE Champ, but I would give it to the current run).

Speaking of New Age Outlaws. Anyone interested in seeing them make an appearance or two in the HHH/Nash feud? I don't like nostalgia acts too often, but it has been a long time since that theme has hit, and I wouldn't mind seeing Road Dogg and Billy Gunn walk out for a one or two time deal.

 

I agree, r truth and the miz have done a good job with their current gimmick. WWE has done a great job letting them wreak havoc so to speak on anybody and everybody. Letting them beat the rock and cena would be a very good thing for both of them and set up wrestlemania well. I also like the ziggler stable that is appearing and wouldn't mind seeing them allied with christian and del rio a bit more, as was done a week ago. Whats his face from nexus is doing a good job I think, with his lawyer persona. If they don't neuter him he could be a very good heel.

 

I thought Truth was closer to about 30, i definitely didn't know he was almost 40. He's kept himself in excellent shape. Teaming him with Miz was brilliant and that new rap is funny.

 

Regarding the New Aged Outlaws, I'm sure if Scott Hall wasn't on drunk/death watch and could still somewhat work a match the WWE would have hired him to join Nash and then bring back X-Pac or try to convince HBK to come out of retirement for one more tag match.

But no keep the NAO away.

 

I don't agree guys. Show could come out pissed that he lost. He could stalk henry into a rematch after getting in touche with his inner rage, or he could announce a new training regime/manager/partner, or he could ambush henry and hurt him just like henry has been hurting everyone else and have henry demanding the rematch... There are any number of ways to script it. Aren't you bored of heal does x, y, and z; face does a, b, and c? Or, if this happens this cannot/has to happen?




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Switching gears, what is everyone's favorite angle of all time? I'm talking from start to finish, you enjoyed the ride.

I am not even sure if I can answer my own question here. Lol.

For my money, I think it is the Canada vs. America feud during the height of the Attitude era. The Hart Foundation (Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Pillman, Neidhart) up against guys like HBK, Austin, Shamrock, Goldust and a few other fill ins. I just remember that entire timeframe being crazy hot and the Canadian Stampede Main Event where Austin was flipping off the crowd while being hauled off in handcuffs was amazing.

I may change my mind, but that was just amazing.

 

NWO original Hall and Nash

 

Yeah the Canada vs. America angle was great, nWo angle was obviously good too but it should have ended at Starrcade 1997. I always loved the Bret vs. Owen feud and how it was built up out of nowhere and how it came full circle years later.

 

NWO was a great angle obviously. One of the most memorable feuds for me was Rock vs. Foley circa 1999. It was right after they gave Mankind the WWF title. It was basically a set up to put a ton of heat on the Rock and give him the belt to face Stone Cold eventually at Wrestlemania but that feud produced some memorable matches and moments IMO. The Goldberg monster undefeated streak was a really good angle for a little while until they screwed up the end of it royally.

 

That's sort of my point though. The NWO started off amazingly, but dragged on way too long, became watered down and pretyt much burned up any and all goodwill that the original angle created. Same with Goldberg.

The Owen/Bret angle was really good, and ended with Owen going over Bret clean at Wrestlemania before Bret ended up closing the show out, winning the title. Great piece of storytelling.

The Razor Ramon/HBK IC title feud was good too. Ended at the same Wrestlemania too.

 

the rock vs the hurricane

 

Also how Jim Neidhart, the Bulldog and the rest of the family got involved (i.e. Neidhart getting Bret DQed vs. Diesel at KOTR so he keeps the title for a match against Owen at Summer Slam). Then they had an epic steel cage match at Summer Slam, followed by Owen using his mom to help Bob Backlund win the title at Survivor Series, then Owen picking Yokozuna as his tag team partner simply because he beat Bret at WM9, etc. Then it ended with Bret asking for Owen's help and they reunite for the America vs. Canada feud.

It was just a great piece of story telling and angles that came full circle.

 

Stone Cold vs. Mcmahon is prob my favorite of all time. Then I would have to go with Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes and DX vs the Ministry. Oh and when WCW came in and it was WCW vs WWE that was great.

 

I can't tell if you're being serious or kidding because the WCW/ECW/Alliance vs. WWE angle was one of the worst biggest missed opportunities ever. Everything about that angle was just crap, minus the 15 minutes when ECW came back and it looked like they were going to take over RAW... until they joined up with WCW.

 

I thought invasion was a pretty cool story line.

 

I agree it could have been handled better but I still enjoyed it. Invasion to this day is one of my favorite PPVs of all time.

 

To each his own I guess. I just considering it one giant mess up on the WWE's part and they wasted millions and millions of dollars in the process because of egos. But hey that's the WWE for you.

 

Yeah, the Invasion angle was one of the biggest failures of all time in my opinion. It really should have been so much better. The moment the WWE guys started being WCW was when I washed my hands of it.

But yeah, the Fink is right about the ECW portion. Once they stormed the ring, and slowly turned on their fellow WWE guys, with Heyman screaming at JR, "Remember this moment for the rest of your life!", it was pretty cool. It's too bad some legal matters stopped them from using ECW at the time and instead they got merged into the WCW crap. I thought it was going to save the entire invasion angle. I was wrong.

 

Well not only that but the WWE not buying the high profiled WCW guy's contracts really hurt the invasion angle. Imagine if Goldberg, Sting, Scott Steiner, Ric Flair, Kevin Nash, Hogan etc came out instead of Mike Awesome, Hugh Morris, Chavo Guerrero and Sean O'Haire? And think of all the possibilities of matches they could have had with Austin, Rock, Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Undertaker & Triple H. I mean don't get me wrong, I get why the WWE didn't want to take over some of those hugh contracts but it just bugs me that once those contracts expired (minus Sting) the WWE ended up bringing in all those guys anyway. Plus the WCW brand was buried at every chance and non of the stars were allowed to get over until well after the angle was dead.

But imagine if the Survivor Series Main Event for control of the WWE was Austin, The Rock, Angle, The Undertaker and either Jericho/Kane/Big Show vs. Goldberg, Sting, Ric Flair, Hogan and Nash/Steiner/Booker T? That buy would have drawn huge numbers and if they could have milked the angle all the way to WM that year it might have been worth it to take on some of those contracts.

 

This was such a stupid move. They could have preserved the brand and used it the same way they use the Smackdown vs. Raw brands right now. Instead of just two different WWE shows you could have a WCW show and a WWE show that were different in more distinct ways. Instead they took any remaining credibility that was left away from WCW and just used those guys instead to put over their stars who didn't really need to be put over.

 

Yeah yeah yeah, E and I get it, you guys hate america and all things american.