If Henne has a fair chance to show what he can do, he's netting an extra draft pick b/c someone will want him.
Fair chance to show what he can do? He's had 3 seasons. He's show enough, imo. He's not netting us a second round pick. I also disagree with you about not having immediate success over Henne. I think they will, especially Barkley and Weeden. Here's the way I see it. If we have the 1st pick, you draft Andrew Luck. If you have the second pick, you draft Matt Barkley. If you have the third pick, choose between Weeden/Jones. If you have the 4th pick, choose between Weeden/Jones.
With respect Dude, I understand what you are trying to do, but that's the kind of mentality that got us into this predicament in the first place. It is time for us to stop trying to make a 4 star QB into a 5 star. We need to draft a blue chip QB and start building our team from there. If we don't, the hue and cry from dolfans is going to make the 2011 riots in London look like a girl scout outing. Steve
Since when is Chad Henne a four star quarterback? More like a two star quarterback that sometimes plays like a three star quarterback but sooner or later returns to his two star level. I don't think any team sends us a pick for Henne, regardless of what opportunity he is given. Maybe a 7th. Time to go ahead and get an actual four or five star quarterback instead of chasing our tails and trying to convince ourselves that a two star quarterback is really somehow a four star quarterback.
He's a 2.5 star QB who's finally (in his 4th season) allowed to actually "be" a QB rather than a puppet. That makes him more likely to be a permanent 3 star QB (who will sometimes play like a 4 considering he's shown no signs of having reached his ceiling). At the very least he nets you a 4th rounder with the potential of a 2nd, and I'll take a 4th over nothing.
I appreciate the capital "D" in dude. That "type of mentality" didn't get us in this predicament in the first place. Respectfully, Tannehill's a first rounder, and the last I checked, we've yet to draft one of those in a while. If Ryan had more experience and better coaching, he'd be regarded in the mix with Barkley & Jones, and his potential upside is higher than both IMO. I'm willing to bet there are quite a few teams that wished they didn't pass on Aaron Rodgers in the first round of 05, including the 49ers who took Alex Smith #1. Tannehill has the potential to be a game-changer, unlike the game-manager that Barkley will most often be, just as Rodgers is the type of game-changer that Alex Smith will never be. IMO Barkley will be limited in the NFL b/c he has neither the accuracy of Drew Brees nor the big arm of Matt Stafford, which IMO means he wont be the kind of guy who can truly attack a defense the way Tannehill's ability suggests. When you add that onto a guy who's 6'2 [Barkley], I have a tough time visualizing the type of QB whom half this fan base thinks Miami needs in order to "save the franchise". I also have a difficult time believing NFL defensive coordinators will stay awake at night fearfully thinking "Man that Matt Barkley scares me to death!". However, I could see that with Tannehill..... followed by Weeden & Jones.
Even though I'm a big fan of Tannehill's I don't see game-changer in the same way. I think he's a talent that will hit the top ten in QBs at some point. I said Hasselbeck with wheels in another thread.
I don't see "game changer" right now in the same sense that I do once he potentially settles into the NFL, has a firmer grasp of the game, and has an NFL coach fine tune his mechanics. IMO there are plays that he'll be able to make b/c of his athleticism, mobility, big arm, and ability to throw on the run that other guys simply won't have in them; that's where I get "game changer" from. You can get Ryan a WR like Mike Wallace, Desean Jackson, or Jacoby Ford and not worry about having their talent underutilized b/c it won't be easy for them to outrun his arm (look at what Steve Smith does for Cam Newton). I can't say the same for Barkley. Tannehill's deep out velocity is impressive (or any out for that matter), and he'll be able to fit throws into tighter windows that would be much riskier by Barkley (some of those rainmaker touch passes Barkley throws--- how many run the risk of being picked or broken up by more talented NFL corners or safeties who get to the ball quicker?). Then there are the drives that will be extended by his feet and occasional big plays via his arm when a play breaks down. I'm not against Barkley per say; I just feel [for now] that Tannehill offers the greater potential to open up the playbook, attack defenses, and force defenses to defend more of the field.
He might although he may never be as quick as Barkley is in reading the defense and finding a tight window to throw into before the defense reacts. I don't feel that Barkley's arm is weaker than the Manning-Brady level coming out or really in the NFL. I have a post for you in another thread in the main, mainly about finding a true five offense, an offense that threatens with the deep, intermediate, and short range game with every player on the field. If we did have a true pro-personnel offense with say a H-Back/FB, TE, a great receiving back and two balanced WRs (Hartline, Marshall) who is your guy at QB?
Ryan Tannehill has game changing quarterback skills, IMO. If he settles in and improves his decision-making process and his timing, then the physical talent will change games in his favor. He throws the ball really well, he has good eyes, and he also has legs and size that can really make plays.
Anytime. Where I come from it is a sign of respect and ranks much higher then say, "Mr." or "Sir" and even someones first name, occasionally. As for my post, I don't think I was clear in what I was trying to say. What I am not comfortable with is trading down. If Tannehill or who ever is our highest rated QB is there, we should take him. There are too many other teams that need QB's to risk it. He may not be there later on. Steve
After Luck, there seems to be a lot to like from Weeden and Tannehill (as the Sr.'s)....still think these could be the top 3 QBs in draft order.....then it will depend on the Jr's llike Barkley, Jones, RG3 and if they declare, etc.
I don't think you draft a Tannehill though that highly though. Jones by the way might not go into this draft. If you like Tannehill, perhaps the best thing to do is to trade down. Otherwise you take a special talent like a Blackmon or a Claiborne. Fairly sure that despite not having a quarterback at the time the Ravens didn't mind drafting Ed Reed over Patrick Ramsey in 2002 or the Browns drafting Thomas over Quinn. I don't care if the team doesn't have a QB, you don't force that pick.
I'd rather have Tannehill, and I'd rather get Marshall the ball as quickly as possible so he has the greatest amount of time to make a play with it. IMO Tannehill is better for Gates, and possibly better for Clay, too. I'd like to see Hartline eventually replaced, and if that guy could be Kendall Wright, then I'd want Tannehill for him also. However, if this were the 2009 draft and we're potentially looking at Bess, Camarillo, Patrick Turner, Hartline, Fasano, and R&R, I'd maybe lean toward Barkley.
Gotchya, sorry for the misunderstanding, Steve. If it wouldn't represent too much of a reach, then I'd be all for taking the guy you really want, too. If it's an obviously extreme reach, then I'd try and trade back.
You make an astute observation. Say that the Vikings at 12 didn't pick Ponder and we drafted him at 16 as we were going to do. Now what happens? We don't sign Matt Moore and save a few million so we go and sign perhaps David Baas in FA. Ponder+LG Garner/C Baas/RG Incognito versus LG Incognito/C Pouncey/ RG Carey I know it looks great having Pouncey and I don't think it's a bad thing that we drafted him, but it sure would have been nice having that young QB even if we had to take him too highly in the draft. This isn't basketball where a big man gets drafted over a more talented guard or baseball where a SP is drafted higher than say an OF. If you like the quarterback go get him. The Bengals took a risk getting Dalton but say it didn't work out a number of people would have been furious. I regret the fact Miami didn't trade down the way they had the year before and drafted him. If we like Tannehill and think that he can become a heck of a quarterback behind say another year of Matt Moore then we have to go get him. In the same way I wouldn't be disappointed if we had Willis McGahee or even Ronnie Brown instead of Daniel Thomas just as long as we had Mallet developing, giving us some kind of future at the quarterback position. The investment at the quarterback position (Beck, White) was poor, very poor. The right investment (Henne) did what he could with the coaching he had. Henne is done, he was a decent pick. That's not enough at QB. The position is arguably 35-40% of what happens to your team on Sundays. A third round pick wasn't worth it at that spot. That's ridiculous. The guys that Miami should like IMO: Luck, Barkley, Tannehill They have solid receiving options, decent backs, need a quick fix on the line but it's all really just about quarterback and what the team does at that spot.
Ryan throws the ball really well outside the hashes. He can really zip the out patterns, and there are several times where he has shown very good anticipation on those out throws. He operates well in the quick game as well. I think his downfield accuracy is not that great right now, but that is going to improve as he gains more experience. Right now, he just throws the ball up to let the receiver go get it. There was a throw against Arkansas where he threw the ball down the left side to Jeff Fuller. He didn't put enough air under the ball, and Jeff Fuller made absolutely no attempt to make a play on it. The ball got picked. I tell you what. Speaking of Jeff Fuller, that is a frustrating player to watch. That guy has a ton of ability, but he simply doesn't put it all out there on the field play after play, IMO. He is a first round talent that I would put a third round grade on at this point. He's going to be someone's whipping boy for a couple of years. Back to Ryan Tannehill, I was watching him against SMU, and he threw a pass down the middle against what looked like a cover 2. The MLB didn't get good depth on the drop, but Ryan hit the tight end right in stride, split the safeties, and got a touchdown. When you look at throws like that and the throws he can make outside the hashes, there is a lot to like about this guy. Then you see him run the zone read on occasion, and you see a guy that may also be able to bring a little bit of a running threat to the table. He has had some rough stretches in some games lately, but I think this guy is going to rise in the draft. Will not surprise me to see him go top 15, if not top 10 by the time April rolls around. Blaine Gabbert went 11, and I think this guy is a better prospect than Blaine Gabbert.
This Matt Barkley guy...definitely only average talent... [video=youtube;jX8PlVYM4GY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX8PlVYM4GY&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Totally different quarterback than Landry Jones that's for sure. Jones doesn't look anything close to this under pressure. Considering their west coast offense Cleveland is a strong bet to trade up for Matt Barkley if we finish ahead of Seattle that is. CK are you still Luck, Barkley, Weeden, Jones age flip-flop with Weeden, Tannehill, Griffin, Foles?
Right now Weeden above Jones regardless of age, and I don't want any part of Griffin, and realistically if I'm picking Foles then I've already failed big time. I've been thinking about Tannehill above Jones too.
Perhaps I should rephrase to say that nobody is going to give up a draft pick for a well-established below average quarterback unless they're very desperate. Miami has given up draft picks for below average quarterbacks, but A.J. Feeley and Sage Rosenfels were unproven prospects, and Daunte Culpepper was a Pro Bowler. Chad Henne has had like 35 games of sub-mediocrity under his belt.
That might depend on how the rest of the season plays out. Personally I think McCoy may just be performing well enough (given the team's limitations) that Cleveland would use their picks in one manner or another to get him some serious help. That team has little at WR, Hillis may be on the way out and McCoy's been banged around so often that Henne probably feels sorry for him.
By the way Tyler Wilson just did extremely well against South Carolina. That's not a joke. There's a strong possibility that he could leave in a surprise much like Gabbert who went 11. Personally I think he's a heck of a lot better than Gabbert.
