The Official Blow for Barkley/Give a Handy for Landry/Whiffin for Griffin Megathread

Might I suggest "Bomb For Barkley?" This thread is a bit too homo-erotic.

 

Two things I took from that video.

1) Throwing seems so effortless for him

2) He throws a pretty nice touch ball

 

Yup, that's what I'm saying. 3 years worth of starting is enough. Time to move on. An extra year of college won't benefit enough in his case IMO.

 

If Tannehill had Barkley's coaching and experience he'd be spoken about as the #2 QB behind Luck IMO.

 

What it says is that Manning was basically coaching the team as well. The fact that they were so unprepared for Manning's absence is reason enough for me to think the team needs a new direction. Really losing Manning obviously is huge and the team should be worse off but they are one of the worst teams in the history of the league at this point. They are losing by huge margins every week, they aren't even competitive. 0-16 is a reason to clean house whether your starting Qb goes down or not.

 

When you make statements like Bledsoe was rated as just an average QB going into the draft, and that all scouts and experts rated Mirer higher than Bledsoe, of course people will disagree, because both of those statements are untrue.

 

Imagine what Manning could do for a team that actually has some talent but needs a QB and maybe a linemen...

 

i cant beleive anyone would be dumb enough to snub a qb just because he comes frome a confrence not **** sec you pass on a qb based on that then you deserve to have another cleo Lemon . I will put Weeden in before Tannahill it makes n freaken diference what conference a qb comes from. the big 12 is not a garbage conference they just do things totally different . Jones andWeeden are just as closee to Marino as anyone before you close your minds you may want to take a look at how a player v=can help not whether hecomes from the sec , pac 10 weeden is the real deal and so is Jones .

sorry guys but i just find it creepy a person wants to exclude a player based on confernce .

 

Who snubbed a QB for wrong conference? We have 2 Pac 10 and 4 Big 12 QBs who are the likely top 6, if all juniors declare. So who wanted to exclude someone and make you feel creepy?

 

Does Barkley get that much better coaching at USC than Tannehill does at TAMU? Lane Kiffin compared to Mike Sherman? I don't see any advantage with Kiffin. By the time they finish, assuming Barkley declares, he'll have 3 years experience at QB, while Tannehill will have 2.5 at WR and 1.5 at QB. Being a regular WR for 2 years may actually benefit Tannehill to some degree, though I agree it would of been better had he played at least 3 seasons as the regular QB. QBs with so little experience starting in college, seldom make it in the NFL, if they are also 1st or 2nd rounders. The experience part, I'd agree. The coaching, I see no advantage of playing for Kiffin rather than Sherman.

 

There's a very big difference in their learning curve and yes I do think Kiffin has given Barkley (a highly touted recruit), far better coaching than a guy like Tannehill. Overall though the one thing that serves Tannehill well is that he's played the toughest competition out of all of the top guys. The one guy that deserves praise for that even more so is Tyler Wilson. I wish he were also coming out.

 

Well, FWIW, and that is not much, to me Volume and Completion %, and Competition and...windows...are my metrics for a potential Dolphins #1 pick Qb.

Watching a college Qb hitting wide open receivers looks great, but..what happens when they have a defender in the Wr's hip pocket? Can they stick the throw?

That is one of the harder things for me about seriously looking at a NCAA QB, as usually the Wr is "NCAA open" not "NFL open", to me I'll look for that when Draft Season rolls around.

 

Back when Brady was playing for Michigan that should have been on the minds of NFL evaluators. He was playing some tough competition at the time.
1 Alabama 9 260 126 48.46 1176 4 130.67
2 Michigan St. 9 231 117 50.65 1313 11 145.89
3 South Carolina 9 274 139 50.73 1386 12 154.00
4 Wisconsin 9 226 135 59.73 1412 8 156.89
5 Boise St. 8 213 111 52.11 1300 10 162.50
6 UCF 9 261 138 52.87 1490 5 165.56
7 Penn St. 9 285 154 54.04 1534 6 170.44
8 Illinois 9 256 141 55.08 1595 10 177.22
9 LSU 9 287 153 53.31 1597 5 177.44
10 Miami (OH) 9 242 136 56.20 1618 10 179.78
11 Florida 9 265 140 52.83 1645 11 182.78
12 Air Force 9 225 142 63.11 1647 16 183.00
13 Colorado St. 8 203 129 63.55 1472 13 184.00
14 Temple 9 268 148 55.22 1663 7 184.78
15 Georgia Tech 9 268 149 55.60 1668 9 185.33
16 Rutgers 9 253 138 54.55 1673 8 185.89
17 Tennessee 9 242 140 57.85 1681 10 186.78
18 Army 9 210 119 56.67 1684 16 187.11
19 Mississippi St. 9 295 195 66.10 1693 9 188.11
20 Nebraska 9 255 137 53.73 1698 12 188.67
21 East Carolina 9 264 153 57.95 1699 12 188.78
22 Florida St.

That's your leader board right now. Luck faces arguably his toughest challenge yet. Fairly sure you'll see him throw a pick, perhaps even two for the first time in a while.

 

I don't see how anyone could honestly call Lane Kiffin a better coach than Mike Sherman. At least not "far better." As for competition, Tannehill plays against the same teams as Jones, Weeden, and GriffinIII doesn't he?

 

No I think he's played some tough games sprinkled in there that they haven't out of conference. That said there isn't a Stafford amongst these guys that has played against the best. I'd like to see which one can handle a top defense, Weeden may have a great shot at it against a top defense like LSU.

Kellen Moore also may have one more shot to prove that he can beat a top defense, I'd like to see that. I'm coming around on him as a legitimate prospect for a Jeff Garcia like WCO offense.

 

I can certainly live with Barkley, and expect him to be there when we draft, even if we win 1-2 more games. This better be part of a clean sweep: new HC/GM/QB Coach among other coaches and FO personnel. Just how do you expect to teach ANY QB we draft how to play in the NFL with our "never before" Todd Bowles QB coach?

 

if hes a top 5 top 10 and dont come out only bad things can happen - just ask colt brennan that he was considered a 1st rounder and he stayed and he screwed himself

 

Bowles ain't the QB coach. He's secondary coach/Asst Head coach. You are thinking of another black assistant coach.

 

Sorry for being unclear. I was referring to Barkley being privately coached since 14 by Steve Clarkson, the best QB coach of kids & young adults on the planet. This is the same Steve Clarkson who began coaching a 10 year old Steve Sills and had the kid committed to USC 3 years later. All Clarkson does is prep kids to become stud QBs. His accomplishment list is longer than the late Don LaFontaine's resume. John Beck, Matt Cassell, Matt Leinart, Colt Brennan, JP Losman, Craig Erickson, John Walsh, Gina Toretta, Ken Dorsey, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman, Jimmy Clausen, Rudy Carpenter, Terrelle Pryor, and so on.

I'm also included Barkley being a 4 year starter at nationally recognized powerhouse, Mater Dei High School, which helped prep him to become a freshman starter at USC. IMO the extra year and a half of college starting experience entails "extra coaching" b/c as a starter you receive more attention from coaches. Total, if my math is correct, that's 7 years of playing/starting experience since high school with 7+ years of elite coaching for Barkley compared to 3.5 years of playing time with less than 2 years of good coaching for Tannehill.



Here's part of a fun older article (2002) about Clarkson:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2002-07-26-acover-coaches_x.htm

 

My concern with Barkley can be summed up in 2 words: Dayne Crist. (not that I'm saying Barkley is Dayne Crist)

Steve Clarkson began working with Dayne in the 7th grade. He became the #2 ranked QB recruit of the 2008 class (behind Pryor, who was also a Clarkson student). Now he's lost the starting job to Tommy Rees, an inferior player coming out of high school. He was more prepared and college-ready entering ND but that doesn't mean others who are possibly more talented [but behind developmentally] cant catch up or even surpass him.

IIRC, of the 20 or so QBs Clarkson has helped get into the NFL, many lacked prototypical NFL size or arm (or both) and eventually busted.

Leinart- 1st round bust. (lacks NFL arm).
Losman- 1st round bust. 6'2, 212 (lacks NFL size).
John Beck- 2nd round bust (6'2, 215; lacks both NFL size & NFL arm).
Jimmy Clausen- 2nd round bust (6'2, 220; less than ideal NFL size and less than ideal NFL arm).

Clarkson's success stories are Roethlisberger & potentially Josh Freeman (who possess both size and arm). I don't count Cassell as a franchise QB.

IMO Barkley lacks both NFL size & desired NFL arm, and the few rare exceptions in the more modern day NFL (like Montana & Brees) don't make me forget about the ones who weren't. I'm not saying Barkley won't be great, but I'm also not buying into the idea that he's a lock for a top 5 or even top 10 QB either.


Clarkson had Barkley understanding a pro offense and calling his own plays in high school (granted Barkley needs to first possess the capacity to do so). I think that's amazing, but I also think that creates a temporarily unfair advantage over guys who were never afforded that type of coaching, an advantage that might disappear once these QBs reach the NFL and have time to develop the mental aspect of the game while fine tuning their mechanics.

What would the athletically gifted, strong armed, intelligent (3x First Team Academic All Big 12) Tannehill presently look like if he were personally coached by Clarkson since middle school? He only played QB for 2 years in high school and now has played less than a year and a half at college QB. To be as far along as he is with that minimal of experience is quite amazing IMO; it makes sense that this guy wants to eventually become a surgeon.

I also love his tenacity, determination, and passion for the QB position. As a freshman & sophmore Aggie receiver, Tannehill caught 1400+ yards & 9 TDs; despite this success, he still desired the Aggies starting QB job and eventually took the gig from 2nd Team All Big 12, Jerrod Johnson, and never gave it back.

IMO he has all the tools & brains to work with, along with the mindset needed to achieve success & become the leader of an organization. With how quickly he learns, maybe he'll only need a year on the sideline.

 

He only played two years at QB in H.S.?

Just curious but do you get that feeling with Luck a little bit, that he's not quite the passer Manning was. He'll be great to me, but he doesn't have this special factor on the level scouts are talking about. Franchise QB yes. HOF type guy, hmmmm I don't know on that one.

I do like Tannehill, it's his progressions and his ability to read a defense pre-snap that matters. He does need excellent coaching, but if Alex Smith can turn it around with good coaching this kid can easily become a really good PA, mobile QB in a balanced WCO. Trading down to take him would not be the worst ending for Miami.

 

Thank you Todd. As usual you are ahead of the curve with the knowledge you impart.

 

I get the same feeling, too. Manning's just a natural with the ball in his hand; ditto for Marino & Fouts. I don't see that with Luck, and I don't see the quick release that other HOF caliber QBs possess like Aaron Rodgers. It also slightly worries me how he pushes or seems to aim the ball at times. Granted he has enough intangibles to make a great QB, but I'm not sure about comparing him to Manning.

I'm pretty sure it was only 2 years at QB. What encourages me about his potential to understand the game and make good decisions is how quickly he became successful. After being away from QB for 2 years and having only half a season of practice, he came in mid season during a 3 game Aggie losing skid and won 6 straight games, including wins against #6 Oklahoma, #20 Nebraska, and at Texas in the finale) while the Aggie offense scored 165 points during his first 4 games.

In his 5 total losses, 4 came against top 8 ranked opponents (1 pt loss to #2 Oklahoma St, #6 Oklahoma, a last minute loss to #8 Arkansas, and #8 LSU in the Cotton Bowl). The 5th was an overtime loss to Missouri.


It intrigues me how good of a QB he currently is despite having room for much refining and developing. I don't judge Tannehill for where he's presently at but rather how far along his development is in the short amount of time he's had, and IMO he's further along than his amount of time at QB would suggest, which is promising in my eyes. To me it indicates he likely a natural for the position while possessing a higher capacity to learn and translate that to the field; unfortunately he was a victim of circumstance, and his athleticism and ability to impact at another position had his coach wanting him on the field at WR rather than the bench at QB behind Stephen McGee (2009 4th round pick by Cowboys) & Jerrod Johnson (2nd Team All Big 12).

I would not be disappointed in least if we traded back and took him.

 

PS: you're not the one needing to google half my words, so the feeling of knowledge imparting is mutual, big poppa.

 

I've got Andy Dalton as a prospect ahead of Barkley comin out..now Dalton was a full on senior, but that's where I'am at with Barkley... however, I was very high on Dalton relative to the board.

 

Speed of motion, and QB athleticism throughout the execution of his responsibilities..It's something I always watch very closely Pauly.

 

You were dead on about Dalton. I like fire crotch more than Barkley, too, Deej.

 

TP are you going to have a hard-on if Oklahoma St. (the whole ****ing crew) comes to Miami.

 

Who's the whole crew? Weeden, Blackmon, Levy Adcock? I could live with that, especially if Coby Fleener could be squeezed in there somehow.

I wouldn't have to stand next to you though would I? lol.


The other scenario that gives me a stiffy is trading back for Cleveland's 2 first rounders and taking Tannehill followed by Stanford guard, David DeCastro, or an impact defender. Then BPA in the 2nd and Coby Fleener in the 3rd.

What would our Oline look like with Long, DeCastro, Pouncey, and Keleche Osemele?



My ideal scenario though would be to have Cleveland's 1sts and use them on: 1a. Dre Kirkpatrick or Morris Claiborne. 1b. Tannehill.

 

I'd rather spend a little less on OL than that. Frankly I think finding a RT shouldn't be all that difficult and it depends heavily on the type of offense you run. Adcock could be a good right tackle and I think he'll slide to the third.

Weeden-Blackmon-Adcock in the air raid itself is what I'm suggesting.

 

Considering the trouble we've had finding a guard who can move, I wouldn't be upset if we took DeCastro (if we had Cleveland's 2 firsts). I'd love to see our line working as a unit like Houston's, and IMO DeCastro could help accomplish that. I also think it would help Daniel Thomas tremendously if we could get more linemen to the 2nd level taking out LBs so that Thomas could get into the open field more often or have better cut back lanes the way Foster & Tate are afforded.

Plus, with Bush on the team I think it's imperative to have a guard who can pull and get outside or upfield where Reggie is most successful.

If we get a mobile QB like Tannehill, then I'd definitely want a more mobile guard who can keep up with him a bit and allow better protection on designed roll outs. DeCastro & Pouncey would be awesome together IMO.

 

lol....''fire crotch''..

 

DeCastro would mean that you pull left which is fine right behind Jake Long. Defenses are ill prepare personnel wise to have their traditional weak side face that kind of rushing game.

As far as offenses go, if we don't get Luck or Barkley I would love to see the team run something wild. Run N Shoot, Air Raid, Diamond Formation whatever it is have fun with it, become a versatile offense. You have guys like Charles Clay, Lex Hilliard, Reggie Bush, Daniel Thomas, Brandon Marshall, and Hartline-Bess for short-yardage. If we were to draft a Justin Blackmon and have him in the offense, anything that could create one-on-one match-ups consistently for those guys would be ideal.