***Official 2011-12 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Wilson Ramos was kidnapped in Venezuela.

 

Scary stuff, you hear all the time about player's family members kidnapped but never the players themselves. I remember listening to a Orlando Cabrera interview years ago where he said he always carried a piece with him when he would go out in public in Columbia because he feared he'd be kidnapped.

 

Yeah and still no word either...

 

Police confirmed he's still alive and they found the getaway car they used.

 

You know I feel for those guys, it's "their" home and country, however a part of me thinks they should be smarter then that, nothing wrong with self defense, but some punk with nothing to lose may decide a shoot out is not such a bad option.

Meaning, maybe they should not visit "the old neighborhood" anymore.

 

I don't disagree with you, the problem through isn't as simply is not visiting the "old neighborhood" because those countries are pretty poor so even if they live in the upper class sections of the country they're still probably open to being targeted. Unless you mean by not visit "the old neighborhood" as stay in the US instead.

 

I think a few should definitely start considering that... I'm talking to you Martin Prado.

 

Something like that, I can understand wanting to see old faces and what have you, but if they are strapping up, when they have made it, they clearly have some issues with their decisions.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7213093/florida-marlins-meet-new-york-mets-shortstop-jose-reyes

 

Imo, Reyes to the Marlins would not be a good move.

Injury prone, coupled with Ramirez's intransigience, not seeing a good chemistry there tbh.

 

Agreed. I really hope the Marlins sign him...

 

Wow, I dont think the Sox should have let him go IMO....[

 

Blah....I hate this move

EDIT: As a Phillies fan

 

4 years at 50 million? No thanks. Paps you were probably the best Sox RP ever. Thanks for the great seasons, especially 2007.

 

Well the pirates just won the nl central with there 1st signing. C Rod Barajas. tremble in fear. lol

I have been a pirate fan for 40 years and just hope someday they will be able to compete.

 

I have a feeling Philly is gonna regret that contract. 50 mil for Papelbon? really?

 

And they're giving up a first round draft pick. For more pitching. As if that was their problem. Unless they plan on magically manufacturing an offense this winter I see regression in their future. Rollins possibly gone, who knows if Howard will be back, guys like Polanco and Ibanez approaching social security age...

 

I like the move for them, the phillies are taking the approach that their window is not that large and it is now or never.

No the BoSox on the other hand, appear to be regressing, in the sense that this offseason they do not have the luxury of not acquiring talent.

 

Philly's biggest problem right now is offense. So why are they going after more pitching? Did they fall short this season because of pitching? They want bonified stars in their bullpen to go with the rotation guys, good for them. In the meantime apparently Jim Thome is going to take Ryan Howard's place for who knows how long. Good luck with that.

 

Honestly do not know, I do recall them blowing saves, but also think losing Oswalt will hurt them more so then adding papelbon helps them.

There are plenty of first basemen who can fill in until Howard returns.

 

I'm sure they could have found a quality closer and given that their starters pitch a million complete games it seems like a position they really just overpaid for. If their plan is not for Thome to play at first base while Howard is out then what are they going to do with him?

 

Yeah I didn't see the dollar figure......although 12.5 is about right for him...it is the 4th year that makes this contract worth it.....

 

Thank god.

and if you didn't know, Anibal Sanchez was gonna visit Venezuela before Ramos got kidnapped. Decided not to when he got kidnapped...good to see players taking it seriously.

 

Yep. That must have been some pickle. But it's good to hear that he's safe. At home. Question still remains: could Ramos go through a lineup and single out his captors?

 

I actually heard there's a 5th year vesting option and the vesting option is easily attainable. If true this contract is horrible for the Phillies and I don't blame the Sox for letting Papelbon walk. The closer's role is so completely overrated.

 

Good, when I hung around dudes from CA/SA, what struck me is the notion of personal security just was not something that..was a part of their world? or occured to them>?

I suspect that there is a lot of machismo in that, but admittedly do not know it to be a fact.

Glad dude pumped the brakes.

 

Why?

This is where MLB sort of runs off of the rails imo RF, 5 yrs from now this will not be the same phillies team, Utley and Howard will be in their mid 30's for example, so what would be the point of not signing Pappelbon now?

Phillies make it to 2 WS in the next 5 yrs and he is a key cog, what will it matter other then they got it done?

 

Because in the history of the MLB there has been exactly one RPer that has signed a long term deal (meaning 3 years or longer) that has lived up to his contract and that pitcher I don't think is human I think he's a machine (it's Rivera). RPers in general are just so volatile and unpredictable year to year and only pitch what 60 to 80 innings a year why would you pay them that much? I personally don't think it's smart to waste that much money on a closer. It's an overrated position because of the silly save stat.

Interesting, Gammons tweeted this morning that the Sox offer Papelbon to the Braves for Javy Vazquez but were turned down as the Braves took the Yankees package instead. I'm starting to get the feeling that the Sox weren't in love with Papelbon, hence why they never offered him a contract this offseason.

 

They are concerned with the next two yrs, not the 3 yrs following, as long as the phillies are willing to spend then it won't matter either way, they simply will replace pieces, like snagging Mike Pence for peanuts, there will always be a franchise looking to dump quality players to avoid paying them.

To me, the phillies "get it" when it comes to how MLB currently works.

Think so to, I also think closers are easier to develop then starting pitchers, but the point in having a quality vet closer is the games matter more for teams in contention, this is a lesson my Braves never learned.

 

The Braves 'quality vet closer' retired and they lost basically nothing. So I'm not sure what lesson they didn't learn. This will make absolutely no difference to the Phillies. They fell short last season because they needed a star closer? Not hardly. They should think about adding more offense instead. I'm sure they could have found a competent closer without paying tons of money and giving Boston their first round draft pick.

 

Then why sign Papelbon for 5 years? Why not try to sign Madsen for 3? Or offer Papelbon a huge amount of money for only 2 years? It's long term big money deals that get teams in trouble as the deals tend to go bad after a year or two. The Phillies could be paying big money for a guy that can't get anyone out anymore for 3 years too.

And I completely disagree about the quality vet closer. Craig Kimbrel was probably the best relief pitcher this year and he wasn't a vet. When the White Sox and Cardinals won the WS with Jenks and Wainwright they weren't vets either. When the Sox won in 2007, Papelbon was hardily a proven vet. On the flip side Trevor Hoffman and Billy Wagner were terrible in big spots.

This. Kimbrel was and Venters were awesome last year minus the last few weeks because Fredi overused them. I'd take those two "rookies" over any veteran 1/2 punch in baseball. Who's better than those guys right now? The only argument I can see is Rivera (who's not human) and David Robertson, who's not an established vet.

 

Yup it is a vesting option as well...and in my previous post, I meant "not worth it"......I will say though it isnt completly overated, the Yankees wouldnt have some of those rings if it not for Mo directly...it is an important position....Pap might be the only guy that is worth this type of money...

 

Thank God, because we absolutely fleeced the Yankees in that deal.

 

Melky who isnt even on the team anymore, Mike Dunn and cash for Vazquez (who sucks I will give you that) and Boone Logan is fleecing?

Boone Logan was one of the top LHP in the AL last year...

Am I on the right trade?