Matt Moore might be a bad QB, but he is better than Henne.

I agree to a point. I mean would rather us argue about suck for luck or a draft that won't happen for another 6 months?

Also, there has been nothing average about 2 of Moore's last 3 games. Is he the answer? I don't think so. Still, it's fun to watch really good QB play and his games against the Bills and Chiefs were really good QB games.

 

I just disagree Todd. To me, this isn't reasoning. This is an excuse. You're really big into the stags and their is absolutely no debating 31, 20, 28 offensive points scored in 3 games and moat importantly 3 straight W's. Henne couldn't even go a game without turning the ball over.

 

Moore played very well, no denying that.

I just don't see the point in continuing to discuss Henne who hasn't played in 6 weeks and likely will never suit up for the Fins again.

 

The clear difference is that Henne could not perform in the red zone due to a lack of touch and short accuracy. Moore has that and that's why even with 200 yard performances he throws 3 TDs.

 

That spade is Dan Henning. Do you honestly think Moore is a great QB? Daboll is calling a great game, and he's utilizing guys to their abilities. There's a reason that Henning is no longer here. At what point can we contribute much of our woes to Henning or give credit to what Daboll is doing?

Of course the scoring output would be the same on average b/c Daboll's offense is new and during a shortened off season to boot. The only thing that matters is how the offense looks now and will continue to look as the players settle into it.

Look at the playcalling in the redzone; it's much improved, and we're executing.

Did Henne have Clay helping to open up the field in the first 3 games? Did he have the protection Moore has? Did he have a running game with only 1 fumble in 3 games? Did he have a defense creating turnovers and preventing last minute lead changes? Special teams blocking punts?

Moore began with 4 straight losses while not scoring more than 17 pts in any of them. Moore hasn't suddenly evolved into a great QB. We're simply playing great team ball and putting him into positions to succeed. That's all I've ever said we needed for Henne, but we very rarely did, and not once in 2011. Henne was playing fairly well in spite of what was going on around him. Moore is playing well b/c of what's going on around him.

 

Part of the reason he didn't have that protection is because he was incapable of operating with pro personnel sets. He had to have multiple WRs getting nailed constantly.

 

How many of those turnovers came during a game where everything was thrust onto his shoulders or during a final drive b/c the defense couldn't preserve a lead? Was Moore faced with this during our last 3 wins?

 

IMO it comes down to Moore not having the full pressure of the game thrown onto his back the past 3 weeks. How many times was Henne allowed to throw for 160 yards en route to a win? How often did we run playaction in the redzone or get Bess involved in the redzone to utilize his quickness like many of us were asking for? IMO the redzone playcalling has vastly improved.

 

wow the insanity or rather the desire to be viewed as a great football mind is rampant. Seriously we are still talking about henne and moore and who is better? And there are still some that are patting themslebves so hard on teh back that they find it ridiculous that anyone points out that trying to compare the circumstances now vs then is apples to oranges. I can see it now, had this team tanked and we were 0-10 and anyone would have sai we missed henne, the excuse would have been "well the team suck and isnt performing not moore fault"

Point being Moore may very well be better but anyone assinine enough to say this is concrete proof is someone whose views I cannot relate to nor find credible. It is a vain attempt to prove they are smarter than everyone else. It is less about moore being > henne, than it is their own inflated opinion being > than everyone else.

Henne vs Moore is irrelevant and there is no reason to keep debating it. It is stupid and self serving. root for teh Phins and not for your own superiority, you win nothing

 

No it really doesn't. Pressure or no pressure on him, Henne was never capable of performing well with anything except spread personnel. Your protection improves as you're able to include a credible PA game, multiple blockers, and what not. Henne couldn't do that. He couldn't run PA well because nobody bought his fakes, he couldn't throw on the run, he couldn't hit in the red zone. The only thing he could do was churn up yardage in the spread. The red zone play calling improved because Henne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the red zone.

Davone Bess is doing the same things he was when Henne was QB.

 

I'm not saying Moore is a great QB. I'm simply stating that Moore is a more productive QB, thus a better QB. No need to try and build your argument based an assumptions about Matt Moore--like people thinking he's great. The execution is better. The play calling always looks better when it works. But again, much of that credit should go to Moore. The team is clearly rallying with him at the helm.

Chad Henne's issues were redzone oriented. More time in the system wasn't going to change that. Matt Moore has a clear advantage there. I think it's important to note that Moore's athleticism has helped a lot. Although Chad improved that area of his game a ton, Moore's ability has lead to more roll out's because he just has that ability. Plus, he's much more accurate in tight spaces and between the hashes. Clay and Fasano's recent production is a result of that improved ability.

 

What I'm curious about is if Moore can continue to improve. He's had less starts than Henne throughout his career and honestly is nowhere near as physically developed. He needs to be 220 lbs at least. If Miami wants to draft a quarterback for the future let it be a Barkley, a Luck, or a guy of that level not someone in the middle.

 

totally agree

 

You act like Chad Henne was I'm the worst if the worst in every game he played in. the guy had a turnover in something like 17 straight games. That's insane!

 

He threw for 55 in a win against the Jets last year.

How many of the games came down to last minute drives or comebacks because the offense was so inefficient in the redzone and settled for FG's that teams hung around? I mean you throw it all on Henning, the defense, etc. but the truth is the biggest difference in these 3 games is that Miami is scoring TD's in the redzone.

Matt Moore has faced the same challenges, dropped balls, etc. But they score.

 

Well, Henne played in 3 games in this offense (in it's beginning), so what do you attribute Moore's 1 TD & 4 INTs to during his first 4 games (with QB ratings of 67, 41, 58, and 92)?

If we're comparing apples to apples, it looks like Moore was less effective during his initial 4 games and needed some time to settle into this offense, something Henne wasn't afforded. But what Henne's first 3 games and Moore's first 4 games most tells me is this offense itself needed time to settle into the new offense.

So we cant say that Moore is outperforming Henne when the variables have changed and Henne hasn't been afforded the opportunity to play with these improved variables in an offense that has settled down, and we can't say that Henne's redzone ability wouldn't have improved when all he's shown since Henning leaving is improvement.

 

woa woa todd up untill today Bess was rarely involved in the red zone so dont use that excuse.

doesnt matter anyway if moore continues to play as well as he has we will draft a qb and henne will be released!!!!!

 

that's one game. Miami's D has done it 3 weeks in a row for Moore. Heck, vs Washington we scored 20 points despite Moore's 0 TDs, 1 INT, 209 yards, and 75 QBR. Bottom line is this is 3 weeks in a row that we've played great as a team. When was the last time you could say that about us?

Henning cared more about wildcat preparation & kicking FGs in the redzone than the passing game & developing a young QB. He did it with Pennington, too, which is why Penny had only 19 TDs in 2010 despite his impressive yardage & QBR stats. All Henning wanted was a game manager. That did absolutely nothing to develop a QB, and every QB in Miami during his tenure regressed, including Penny.

 

Henne did you one better by regressing under Daboll too. Moore is flourishing under the guy.

 

Everything under Henning is a wash. Normally 3 years of experience in the NFL is a good thing, but 3 years with Henne under Henning actually made him worse, so this year with Daboll would've actually been Henne's first year to truly develop into an NFL QB.

Henning is a flat out graveyard for QBs; that's why I've been defending Henne all along, not b/c I'm smitten with Chad. This is the first year he would've had a shot to prove himself, and 3 games in a new offense while the team is playing incredibly sloppy is not an appropriate measuring stick.

 

Que?

Henne's YPA, YPC, TD%, and Passer Rating (along with other more advanced metrics) were all up (and rushing yds) while his INT% was down from 2010. The only categories where Henne "regressed" were completion percentage and sack percentage (and I'd like to cite the right side of the line & slow start for Long as the main reason for increase in that).

I don't want to get into the argument of Henne >=< Moore, but what you said simply isn't the case.

 

Show me Henne's first 3 games and Moore's first 4 games and tell me who's flourishing and who never had a chance to flourish. If Moore were pulled or injured after his 0-4 start with 1 TD to 4 INTs, you wouldn't be talking about any type of flourishing. Henne wasn't afforded the opportunity to grow with this offense under Daboll. Moore has.

 

I think it would be stupid to not try and resign Henne at least as competition for whatever comes to us this offseason at QB. He has proved to be at worst a very good backup. No one is going to be out looking to sign him as a starter so why not take a low risk deal. Look what Harbaugh has done with Smith.

 

While I like Henne, I don't think bringing him back is the right decision.

 

Frankly, I couldn't care less because I don't have a dog in the fight. All I hope is that our franchise QB is playing on Saturdays right now and that Matt Moore is our long-term backup because I like him in that role.

 

You can't bring back Henne for many of the same reasons people had issues with bringing back Pennington. Plus, Moore is under contract for another year and is performing better currently.

 

If Henne wasn't forced into come from behind situations in every game and half his dropped TDs were hauled in, his QBR was impressively over 100. I'm not saying he was elite or anything, but the play around him made him seem worse than he was actually performing. Moore isn't being faced with nearly the amount of pressure that sat on Henne's shoulders during 2010 & 11.

The mental stress associated with having to play outstanding for 60 minutes to atone for your team's sloppy play is significantly greater than a QB facing 30 minutes of mental stress b/c his team is playing great around him. People don't understand how difficult & mentally straining it is to be forced to play at that kind of level all game long, every game.

 

You just did a great job describing our defenses mentality. With the offense never scoring, they always had to close it out and play perfect.

 

The bottom line is---- you have to put your QB in positions to succeed. We didn't do that for Henne or Moore during our first 7 games. We have done it for Moore in the last 3.

 

Some of that comes back on them initially leading the league in fewest turnovers created. If you don't create turnovers, you're likely not winning. Was the defense showing up out of shape and injury prone (Dansby's weight, Vontae's hamstring, etc) Henne's fault?

Let's not forget crucial fumbles which are irrelevant to QB play. There were also 4-5 dropped TDs and numerous missed FGs that proved costly. We were playing sloppy everywhere. Now we're not. That's the difference. We weren't playing as a "team" just as the talented Eagles haven't been. Now we are.

 

I think both Qb's have their good and bad points.

Henne, sees the field better, is one tough sob, and has a cannon.

Moore has good ball placement while using better touch.

 

Which goes back to this regime setting him up for failure under Henning. The offense wasn't geared to match Henne's abilities, and this regime did nothing to draft the players who also match it. Instead we drafted possession type after possession type at WR & TE (who are more suited for a weak-armed Pennington type player) while ignoring guys who could better utilize Henne's arm.

 

Yup, I was just thinking today about how I wished Henne had Moore's touch.

 

What I consider to be Henne's problem this year is his #1 WR kept dropping TD passes. Daboll kept calling plays designed to get Marshall the ball and Marshall may be the LEAST CLUTCH player of ALL-TIME (dropped another TD today making it at least 6 for the year and dropped a 3rd down pass that would have been a 1st down...equivalent to a turnover). Two of Henne's interceptions were end of the game throws in which he had to force the ball.

Anyone that thinks Moore is a better QB simply had their I hate Henne glasses on when watching him. He was the best player on the field. But apparently Moore is able to get pressure on the opposing team's QB, make interceptions, etc...

Of course, what is being overlooked as well is Moore is winning against Washington and Buffalo...two teams on the slide.

 

HoF

 

I'd do it for the simple fact that we don't know how the draft will play out, especially if we end up picking 10th to 14th where it could fall after Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and possibly well before Tannehill, RG3, and Weeden.

 

We saw Henne improve quite a lot from one system to the next but I don't think we should be giving either Moore or Henne the reigns of the offense come next season. Neither one of them are, imo, going to ever be a franchise Qb.

Now if we could combine both, Henne, and Moore, we might be onto something.

 

I do not hate Henne the player or person. However, Chad Henne was not even the 3rd best player on that offense. He improved quite a lot over one offseason but he is what he is. He is a player that needs a team built around his strengths and his strengths only.

 

I just wish Miami fans used this same logic for other players. If they did, no one would ever need to get cut.

The fascination with Henne's arm is the same as Clyde Gates' speed. If it doesn't equal production, then it's empty in my book.